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    Create a curved wall?

    Hi all,

    Just wondering if it's (easily!) possible to create a curved wall using BSP, or whether I should just manually put lots of long thin pieces next to each other to make a pseudo-round wall.

    cheers
    JJ

    #2
    Well how curved do you want it? If all you are after is a quarter circle then you can easily cut that from making a hollow cylinder.

    There are a few ways to make a curved wall. I suggest you go through many tutorials first and then practice making various shapes. Some shapes take a lot of brain power to figure out how to create.

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      #3
      yeah, it's just a big quarter circle can you point me in the direction of some of these many tutorials? I'm still very new to this!

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        #4
        What theme is your map? There's a lot of curved wall static meshes in the LT_Walls package, and you could maybe try applying a different material to them to make them fit in more. The problem with using BSP is that each face is going to stand out with sharp edges where light and shadow meet no matter how many there are, whereas static meshes would look much smoother.

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          #5
          A curved CSG wall can be created a number of ways. The simplest is usually with a cylinder that has been sliced. Or you can create it with multiple brushes that have been rotated.
          The big issue with creating it in CSG is that you have no smoothing groups, so each "panel" of the wall along the curve will still look like a separate piece. If you use a StaticMesh then the smoothing groups feature allows the curve to be continuous and more natural looking.
          The second issue using CSG is with the texture coordinates. If you create it with a cylinder, you have to spend a lot of time fudging the textures or use a little math to determine what the scale and movement of the textures on each surface are.

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            #6
            Originally posted by DGUnreal View Post
            The big issue with creating it in CSG is that you have no smoothing groups, so each "panel" of the wall along the curve will still look like a separate piece. If you use a StaticMesh then the smoothing groups feature allows the curve to be continuous and more natural looking.
            That got on my nerves a lot when creating my first map (I have a lot of cylindrical corridors) so I'm using the curved bunker walls in LT_Buildings/LT_Buildings2.

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              #7
              I have a large room, which curves off to the right as you run along it. if you look at the map in top view, what i want is basically a big rectangle with the top left corner a big curve. maybe instead of trying to do it this way, I'll just leave it as a rectangle and use curved static meshes to go around instead. thanks for your comments!

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                #8
                So basically, we aren't supposed to model levels in UEd anymore, but in MAX or Maya.

                Great job, Epic. Q3 had curved walls, why can't we?

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rigel View Post
                  So basically, we aren't supposed to model levels in UEd anymore, but in MAX or Maya.

                  Great job, Epic. Q3 had curved walls, why can't we?
                  You can still do it with CSG Brushes the same as in UT99/UT2004.
                  The comment we are making is that it is and always has been better to do it as StaticMesh for a number of reasons.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Rigel View Post

                    Great job, Epic. Q3 had curved walls, why can't we?

                    That's what i also want to know.

                    Is it engine-related why you can't do it that good like in Q3/Q4? It didn't work so great in UT99, but it did in Q3 back then and does in Q4. Looks like these engines has some basic smoothing-groups build-in, while the Unreal-engines does not have anything like this. It's a shame a bit, because you could create some nice looking rounded (basic) things in the editor itself instead of an external 3d-modeling prog.

                    I'm learning 3d Max tho, so i havent any problems with it.

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                      #11
                      If you use enough surfaces in the curve and set the lightmap size properly it looks as good as Q3. Staticmeshes just look even better.

                      With the free MayaPLE and other 3d software like Blender, there is no reason to not learn how to create Staticmeshes. If done correctly they can be used like simple building blocks as easily as using CSG Brushes.

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                        #12
                        Why the objection against using dedicated modeling apps to... model? Engines have improved a LOT since Q3. If you want to use Q3's map making methods here, you can. And your map will look like a Q3 map. Competetive gamers might not mind - they tend to prefer gameplay more than anything else. But the average consumer will expect a certain level of detail that is either impossible, or extremely inefficient, using last-gen methods.

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                          #13
                          Why be content with flat polys? When I say that Q3 had curved walls, I mean it had curves that were subdivided in real-time while playing, so that they were always curved. They didn't even use Bezier patches, but parametric equations, allowing them to model true spheres / cylinders.

                          Although Q3 used them in limited instances (they tended to eat the frame rate after all), the Serious Sam games were based quite extensively on real-time subdivision of curved surfaces.

                          And UT3 is based on static meshes...

                          Anyway, if there IS a way to create a true curve, whatever the method, I'd like to know more about it. Someone mentioned Smoothing Groups? Where can I find more info on these?

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Rigel View Post
                            Why be content with flat polys? When I say that Q3 had curved walls, I mean it had curves that were subdivided in real-time while playing, so that they were always curved. They didn't even use Bezier patches, but parametric equations, allowing them to model true spheres / cylinders.

                            Someone mentioned Smoothing Groups? Where can I find more info on these?
                            With advanced lighting and smoothing groups in modern engines there is no need to waste performance with real-time subdivision since in most game scenes it is unnecessary.

                            Smoothing Groups provide information to the renderer about how to light adjacent triangles to remove/reduce faceting in the rendering.
                            See this pdf.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              <sarcasm>
                              Wow. Read the PDF. This is really, really advanced stuff.
                              </sarcasm>

                              Back in 1993, Lucas Arts released a great game for the PC, called (imaginatively enough) "X-Wing". It was, I believe, the first PC game to utilize something known as Gouraud Shading, an already old technique, which gave a smooth blend of colors for the polygons drawn on screen.

                              A few years later, they released "Tie Fighter", which utilized Phong shading - the interpolation of surface normals, and not just colors, so that highlights would show correctly.

                              Since that time, such per pixel lighting has been standard in pretty much every major game. I already know all about it, and I know far more about its limitations that you could possibly imagine, demonstrated by the fact that you think in this day and age it's a suitable replacement for true curves.

                              The ONLY possible replacement for true subdivision / tesselation is a displacement map (not a normal map), but that's really more like per-pixel subdivision anyway.

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