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Best WAR/ONS layouts?

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    Best WAR/ONS layouts?

    I think it is time to produce some bigger WAR map. All my UT career I was DM and CTF player, so I have no idea what is good for WAR.

    Where I can find some layouts and descriptions about pro and con on those?

    I plan to make some small to medium sized WAR map, probably urban setting, something like KowLoon with fight going on roofs. Lots of static meshes, so I make map as big as I can without slowing down.

    Also map should be easy to occlude, so I can pack more oomph factor without lagging everybody.

    PS.
    Any WAR layout suggestions would be welcome, as I probably will make more than one map
    And best would be some tutorial for layouts, like there was one for DM maps. Maybe some experienced WAR folks could make nice topic here about what to do and do not for WAR. Mapping takes to much time to seriously play anything but some DM.

    #2
    By layout, do you mean the level itself or the nodes? Since you seem to have a good idea about what should be in the level, I'll assume you mean nodes for now.

    Now, since there's literally an infinate number of setups you can make, and at least a couple thousand using a limited number of nodes, I think general guidelines would work better than a list of possibilities.

    First off, you probably want two prime nodes (per core). I've seen a few good ones with three, but 90% of good maps have two.

    You do not want a "path" to be only one node wide ever. Not having one prime node, and not having several nodes converge on a single node. In fact, your "path" should probably get wider, although how much is up to you (I'd go with 3-4 nodes parallel toward the middle of the level, personally).

    Last, links between nodes are tricky. Too little links are bad, and too many are also bad. Most nodes should only link to 2-3 other nodes (the one behind them, the one infront, and maybe one to the side). Occasionally you can use one with four or more, but most should be less than four.

    One more thing to think about... how many nodes you actually want. This will be determined by the size of your map and the number of players you want playing in it. A small map for few players can do just fine with five nodes, a large map could have more like fifteen. The most nodes I've ever seen in a good map is 23, so probably you should try to keep it over five and under twenty.

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      #3
      Google the TitanONS forums address and check out their ONS info pages.
      I have created a number of larger ONS maps. I would recommend 5, 7, or 9 node setups. Rarely will you have less or more than this because it usually just doesn't play well. Distances between nodes and bases should be as close to equal for both teams, so overhead layout should be close to mirrored.
      WAR is slightly different than ONS, so you must take into consideration the Orb and such.

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        #4
        For now, don't worry too much about the link setup. That can easily be corrected later. The important thing is that you have the nodes in place to create setups with. For now, just make sure at least two nodes can easily be reached on foot from each base.

        Most importantly; get plenty of nodes! You don't have to use all of them in every link setup, so you can really go wild here, I'm talking 10+ nodes. Make sure the nodes have plenty of cover. Warfare gets boring when everyone guns nodes down from far away. Make it so that people have to move in close to take out the nodes. Also think about where people are going to appear when they spawn at a node. Many maps have special little side rooms and corners for that.

        Get some interesting terrain with lots of height variation. And I'm not just talking roofs here. If you look at WAR-Downtown, for instance, you'll see that besides the roofs it has very little height variation. 90% of the action takes place at street level. Create platforms, stairs, slopes, bridges... you name it. This is especially important for ground vehicles, since they cannot access the rooftops.

        Node link setups and vehicle/weapon/orb/pickup placement can be added when you're almost done. They're so easy to shift around that you don't really have to keep them in mind while designing. Just throw something together and let your beta testers tell you what you should have done.

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          #5
          Unfortunately I must disagree with a lot of your post.

          ONS/WAR are like a multi-DOM/multi-CTF map.
          Where the nodes are located is very important, as important as the placement of DOM points and CTF flags.

          In almost every case, any more than 9 nodes can't be well designed for, either the nodes are too close to one another or the map size must be too large to accomodate them. And wasting map space to have multiple unused nodes is usually pointless. You don't see many 11 or 13 node maps in play on large clan servers because of this. And more than 7 to 9 nodes results in maps that are not very playable for matches with fewer than 10 players, limiting what servers the map is useful on.

          The overhead node layout should be one of the initial design steps, the same as how a mapper would determine the flags and paths between them, or DOM points and paths between them. Then the map is designed around this layout.

          The optimal distance between cores for a 10 to 12+ player map is between 56000 and 65000 units. This usually means limiting the nodes and cores to a circle with a radius of around 32000 units. Any more than this and travel time is too long.

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            #6
            Thank you for tips.

            I have some a bit unusual idea, and I am not sure how it will work.

            Nodes setup is something like 1-2-1-2-1, so just classic 8. There will be only 3 vehicles: 2 Goliaths to defend both cores, and 1 manta on middle node. (i am thinking about 2 flying vehicles, but that is not sure). Quite small map, size of bigger CTF (not VCTF) map. Goliaths either are limited to primary nodes, or just have single path to enemy core.

            Map will be something like that KowLoon city, with vehicle (manta) action going on rooftops and all infantry hiding below. Goliaths will be for defense with some possibility to slowly crawl to enemy core. (probably 1-2 bridges on each side that can be lowered only after node is controlled). If engine can handle big map like that I will make WAR if not I cut it in half and turn into CTF.

            For now I am trying to find a way to make something that looks like: KowLoon

            Comment


              #7
              A single center node layout is fine but if linked in a 8 pattern it does often concentrate all fighting at that node, so you would also want a link setup where the outer nodes link across for different play style.
              KowLoon is a very dense city, so it will take some work to duplicate that, good luck with the map I hope it turns out fine.

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