[PC] DM-Maliwan [Beta2] (update March 26th 2014))

[Neillithan]

Hey PlayForGG. I was wondering if I could talk to you on instant messenger like Steam or X-fire or Skype? I have some ideas I'd like to talk to you about, and it might be easier to just have you join one of our servers and show you the things in person.

I will post a list of things that I think should be changed.

I really like the map, but I feel like the weapon placement is completely wrong for competitive duel and should be changed to something else. It would be really easy to explain in game, or on Steam/X-fire/Skype.

My Steam: Neillithan
X-Fire: pccrash23
Skype: neilvmoore

[Neillithan]

Hey PlayForGG, I decided to make a video for the map! It covers all of my ideas and I really hope you consider my ideas.

Here's a link to a video that I uploaded to Twitch.tv. I will also upload it to Youtube for convenience.

http://www.twitch.tv/captainflaccid/c/3794995

Thanks!
-Neil (CaptainFlaccid)

[Wolfy.Brandon]

http://www.twitch.tv/captainflaccid/c/3794995

Great comments and ideas Neillithan!

I agree with 90% of your video. I don't think a wall should be placed on the ceiling to block the impact hammer jump from the +25 health ledge. I was just messing around with those jumps and they can be a little tricky (sometimes the window is stopping me btw, it has some collision issue). I think if someone is willing to risk it and pulls it off then that is fine. I like your idea for the rocket room and having the window in it and a back cutout in the elevator shaft. I've searched all over the map and I can't really find a better place to put the UDamage. I was thinking to fit the overall map design it might be better to put some ledges to wall dodge to rather than platforms (it might look better too), there could even be a carved out area in that back wall for UDamage. As far as flow, sometimes I'm having a little trouble dodging from that raised platform up to where the link gun currently is, and that seems like one of the most primary routes to it other than coming up from the shield belt. It's possible by doing a wall dodge jump, but still tricky because it's high and so close. I think it would be nicer if it was made a little easier to improve flow.

I really like your ideas for weapon placement, I know that PlayForGG has changed a bit of the layout for the map, but if he incorporates your weapon layout ideas within it I think it will be nicely balanced.

Also, I just created a video to show how fast you can get all of the armors in the map. (~8 Seconds).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofua7RAzF3s&hd=1

WolfyBrandon

[Neillithan]

Also, I just created a video to show how fast you can get all of the armors in the map. (~8 Seconds).

I see. Yeah there's really not a lot you can do to keep the distance of armors spaced far enough apart. The map is pretty small and there are lots of ways to get around. If that ledge near thighpads wasn't there, a player would be unable to get up there easily... they would have to jump down to the lift in order to get to the thighpads. Not exactly a pleasing situation. :P

It's probably not a huge problem.

But yeah, I'm glad you liked a lot of my ideas. I like the idea of having carved out walls near DD instead of platforms. It would be less annoying than platforms.

[Wolfy.Brandon]

I don't have much problem with it either, makes a nice run through the map.

I've been looking at that wall that blocks the sight of the shield belt from the center room. I was wondering if you think one of those forcefield windows should be placed in it so people can see if the belt has spawned and also be able to combo people through it who are trying to get the belt.

WolfyBrandon

[Neillithan]

I'm thinking about that window idea near the belt and I'm not sure it's really necessary. The reason is because the belt can easily be comboed from the big open doorway right next to it. A window would completely eliminate the cover at the belt.

There has to be at least *some* cover there. A well placed combo would be able to snuff anyone out of that area, and putting a big window there might make it too easy...

[PlayForGG]

Wow, great feedback there. Really loved the thought process leading to it, thanks for taking the time to do that.
I have lots of things to answer to.

Balancing-wise it's aimed at 2v2, duel is a side bonus and 3v3 not really my concern (at least on a competitive level). I'll might do a 1on1 version (as the architecture works well for it) depending on how it goes near the release date, not sure though, it'll be clearly specified in time.

Great idea about the jumppad/Thightpads, i'll see how it goes with the vertical jump and the 30 moved on the left.

About the lifes, the map is quite heavy on them, most of it being on the bottom floor , i've currently removed one in the center (lowering the room's attraction) and swap the Shock and health, the shock area being larger and more suited to the weapon. I'll get back on that later. The 25hp next to the 30a is replaced by vials. That makes 4 25 packs on the bottom floor, one in each corner, plus 5 vials on the top. There's a few vials near the Udmg and near the new link.

The 50 has been removed and the Sniper is on the top platform. I've added a helmet on in the corridor that goes toward the current minigun.

The big minigun room is currently being totally revamped. I'm trying to make it less "away" from the rest of the map. I've been tested it this week-end and its bone works quite well, but still needs some adjustements on balance and routes.
I'm also considering modifying a bit the current rox room, it being really cramped and not really interesting.

The hammer jump from 30a to top platform was made on purpose, as you pointed giving out your position and a chunk of your life for the removal of both armors. I'm happy someone found it as my players took some time to figure it out. The opposite way is doable with good timing on a normal double-jump wall dodge. As for the rest of the obvious wall-dodges they are all doable without help with good timings, but my testers found them quite hard to do in fight (myself too) so they all have a small blocking volume to smooth the process. I've also concerns about the "ramp" to link and i'll fix it.

Concerning the weapon layout, i'm trying to altern a long range with a short range while doing a circle around the map, i also try to avoid to get a weapon in a location where you would not need to move and could camp but where it's still useful (the balance is hard to get).
The Shock is still near the Power-up so i might change that based on what you said.
Some placements have changed :


clic for a better resolution.
Orange lines show a change in z-axis without a wall. The pic doesn't show well the different levels but it's better than nothing.

The belt is currently removed. It's one of the reason that might make me do a 1on1 version with Belt instead of Udmg and 50 instead of helmet.

The map is quite cramped but i'm trying to mitigate this a little. The ideal would be a mix of open/cramped but nothing too extreme. Concerning the global size, it's quite small as i'm trying to make it produce a lot of action with sideways and passages everywhere, with no place too safe. In result it takes very little time to get through it. Not sure how to fix that without removing movement opportunities and/or sizing up too much the map.

The power-up platform has changed a lot. It's harder to control but depending on where the opponents are can be safe to pickup. No more Belt + Udmg. Check my above screenshots post (post 24) to get a better idea of the changes.


Thanks again for the extensive feedback, it's helping me a lot.
I'll upload an updated beta once i feel comfortable with the changes.

ps: i've pm you my skype if you still need to get me live.

[Wolfy.Brandon]

blah blah I've Removed The Belt blah blah

PlayForGG, I think we are going to need another beta soon. The map has changed a lot since the last beta and a lot of feedback is getting to be irrelevant now. I would have been really happy with just the changes Neillithan mentioned. I am in the same boat as him feeling like this map makes an amazing dual map. If you have currently removed both the 50a and the Shield Belt then I would be very interested in a 1on1 version with belt.

WolfyBrandon

[PlayForGG]

haha i understand your point, i'm mainly a duel player too but i wanted to build and play something different this time. Learnt lots of things about TDM in the process.

It also killed me to remove the Belt but i had no other good solution to start on a better base for the balance. It made the process far more easy.

I'm working on some fixes on Malevolence and i'd like to upload that soon.
I'll fix the main issues with my current Maliwan layout after some private tests then put trims where needed and upload.
I'll try to upload a new beta plus a 1on1 version in around 3 weeks depending on how the map performs.

Being extremely cautious since some Malevolence mapping incident, i keep every major changes in different files and places so reversing things if needed is not a problem.

Stay tuned.

Also don't do me these eyes

[NovaZzZ]

Playforgg, I am an absolute huge fan of both your new maps and especially this one. I think the layout is almost near perfect for 1v1 and would make a great map to our 1v1 playlist. I agree with everything neil had to say in his video. The map is in beta for a reason, and people like me are here to give our opinions and let you know how your maps are going.

Maliwan is definitely more of a 1v1 map than 2v2 Un my opinion. But 2v2 could possibly make a great map. The layout of the armors are perfect and have great flow to reaching them.

Anyhow, keep up the great work. I'm excited to see more maps from you in the future(especially 3v3).

[Wolfy.Brandon]

i had no other good solution

v0.8 Beta + Neillithan's Ideas + Post #33 = Dual Map

It's just basic mathematics

I like my 8 sec armor run dammit!


WolfyBrandon

[PlayForGG]

Thanks for the support, it gives me lots of motivation to work on the maps

I just quickly tried some of Neillithan ideas with bots to get a feel and i'm totally bluffed. Great mapper for sure.
The Jumppad/30a thing rocks. And with the 0.2 air control it gives a choice between armor or the weapon in the next room. I was not sure about the air control at first, thinking it would defeat some of the jumppad use threat but it's just excellent.

I quickly made a room similar to the Flak one in the angled corridor beside the Rox, it works far better than the current placement. I'll make something fun and interesting there. Also when coming from the sniper it forces a choice between instant life or weapon which is far better than between life and ammo.

I still need to find where i can put the bio but i'm sure i'll get something good working.

Totally pumped up for the map.

Cheers.

[Wolfy.Brandon]

Totally pumped up for the map.

So are we, eagerly awaiting to test the next beta! Don't rush anything though, a lot of people care about this map... it's sure to be a winner if not a must have!


WolfyBrandon

[NovaZzZ]

Whatever good maps you make are guaranteed to be played by our community

[Neillithan]

I see. I absolutely agree with you making a 1on1 version of the map that has belt. When it comes to duel, typically duel maps have a belt and a 50 armor. Also, I would be very interested in helping collaborate with you on a duel version of the map and I can give you direct feedback from some of the best duelers in UT3 so that the duel version has just the right balance.

Would you consider adding me on Steam/Xfire/Skype so that I can give you some advice from players such as Legionz, Novaz, Shocktrooper, Myself, Arianna, JesusOfUT3, Pl4sMa, Satan's Father, etc? We typically use Steam for communication.

Steam: Neillithan
X-fire: pccrash23
Skype: neilvmoore

Thanks,
-Neil