DM-Eggshell Beta Two [RELEASED, link in thread]

[PixelDust]

I played the map for a bit and I really like the flow.
I found that every area led to the next area very fluently.

I think the lack of static meshes adds to the the map; it works. It doesn't deter the eye. There's not a million flashing lights everywhere. It's nice, clean and bright. I really like the atmosphere and look of the map.

As for bugs/changes, I didn't find many...

1. By the Stinger, there is some raised/cracked ground that the player can get snagged on. (It's annoying, hehe)



2. The bots seemed to stand around for the most part. (Not sure why?)

3. I saw a few texture mis-alignments/seams in the brick texture. (Mix between meshes and CSG...that's just me being picky though )



4. Maybe add some random roots or something in the long blocked off hallway.



5. Add a few more vines and hanging leaves meshes on the walls in some areas. (Not really needed)

6. Near the Super Health, there is a mesh with the default texture on it.

[SEBASTIEN-NOVA]

No time to really help you but it's just to say I like this kind of map and the gameplay/flow is really cool on it, keep it up man, bye !

[tidu]

I played the map for a bit and I really like the flow.
I found that every area led to the next area very fluently.

I think the lack of static meshes adds to the the map; it works. It doesn't deter the eye. There's not a million flashing lights everywhere. It's nice, clean and bright. I really like the atmosphere and look of the map.

As for bugs/changes, I didn't find many...

1. By the Stinger, there is some raised/cracked ground that the player can get snagged on. (It's annoying, hehe)
Easy fix, I put some nice blocking volumes around those protrusions from the ground, but moved a couple of the tiles a bit later without turning off their collision, which is probably causing this

2. The bots seemed to stand around for the most part. (Not sure why?)
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I've played the map extensively and can think of a spot or two where the bots get "stuck" and run back and forth until they choose another objective, but I've never seen them just stand around. In fact, they're pretty good at killng me I'm pretty sure I did a final build of everything, including the paths before I cooked.

3. I saw a few texture mis-alignments/seams in the brick texture. (Mix between meshes and CSG...that's just me being picky though )
This has been bugging me like crazy. It is very likely that I will redo a couple walls as a complete mesh, instead of BSP for the square parts and mesh for the broken parts. I'd be happier with the texture seams at corners where they're hidden.

4. Maybe add some random roots or something in the long blocked off hallway.
Duly noted

5. Add a few more vines and hanging leaves meshes on the walls in some areas. (Not really needed)
I didn't want to get too crazy with the foliage, but it might be necessary if I want to obscure some of those texture seams. I'll see what options I have.

6. Near the Super Health, there is a mesh with the default texture on it.
Must be a package problem, since I don't experience the problem. I'll see what I can do.

Thank you so much for taking the time to play the map. I'm gonna give it some more work, although probably not release another beta unless there is a major change.

Depending on when you plan to release this as a final, I will test it out with in a week as I am trying to finish my map for a beta release.

Don't worry, there's no rush Thanks again, everyone.

[stevelois]

I can play the map now (I reinstall my system).

I like the simplicity of it so far & I hope you will leave it simple as it is. Most of what to fix as been report so I don't need to repeat them. I collide at lots of place on the ground, also, check your playerstart near the shore, bots are stuck there.

In all, it's very atmospheric & organic

[tidu]

I can play the map now (I reinstall my system).

I like the simplicity of it so far & I hope you will leave it simple as it is. Most of what to fix as been report so I don't need to repeat them. I collide at lots of place on the ground, also, check your playerstart near the shore, bots are stuck there.

In all, it's very atmospheric & organic

I went through and fixed the collision problems. I'm adding some polish now, so hopefully it should be final soon. Thanks for giving it a run-through. Glad to hear you can play every map now!

[Odedge]

I'm adding some polish now, so hopefully it should be final soon.

Hmm, you might want to hold that thought.

Here are my comments on version 2 of your beta (now that I read some of the posts, I maybe have duplicated some things).

Keep in mind that I only make comments that will make the map better. While some of them are very subjective, others are more objective.

That being said, I like the map so far, but I think it can be much better. I have played your UT2004 maps and like them. I think with some more work, this one will be just as nice.

Feel free to respond or comment on my suggestions as beta testing is more about having a conversation rather than a speech.

Edit:

I forgot 2 more things...

1. You have water dripping sounds throught out the map, but there is no water dripping.

2. The sound you are using near the stream that leads to the small waterfall sounds more like small waves crashing on the shore, but the center of the sound is in the middle of the stream, which doesn't sound right.

[tidu]

Wow, seriously, I appreciate the time you put into this, I'm sure as a fellow mapper you know how invaluable this feedback is. I'll go through everything one by one

1. Will fix. I tend to unconsciously let things like that slip by

2. Both of the areas with this mesh were fixed as per a comment above

3. I only notice the fog lines in that long dark corridor and maybe another couple darker spots in the map. I didn't make the fog start at the player so I could keep the map looking as clear as possible. I settled for fog in the distance but up close it kind of washed things out. I detailed that long hallway a bit so it should look a little better, although the fog might still be a problem.

4. This was a bit of a test-run with the new editor, so there are definitely a lot of things that I would do differently (additive instead of subtractive is a perfect example). The lighting is one of those things too. I'll keep your comments in mind and mess around with some color and lighting up some of those dark spots.

5. Noted

6. collision was just fixed, I'll work on the light in that corner

7. I guess it's just a preference thing, to me there's a fair amount of hallways and open spaces. maybe some more toward the latter

8. & 9. I'll work on the seams... The water meshes are just stock planes I believe, so I opted to use two instead of scaling one and messing with the texture. I'll probably have to go back and redo it or somehow cover it up. I couldn't get terrain to work in the editor. I was disappointed because I was so used to using it in UT2004. I thought it to be a simple enough area that I could use a mesh

10. I will look up the "vertex painting" i think it's called in Maya and see if it can be done so the stream stands out a bit more.

11. Will do, I lowered the Z of the mesh because I thought they got in the way a little bit, but I see where you're coming from with the grass growing on the tile thing

12. I didn't like the pixelated textures for those plants so I replaced them with a small pile of bricks that act as a wall and some taller grass meshes. I blocked off that area to cover up the "movie set" area (good analogy) but I suppose I could spruce it up a bit and take away the volumes. Also I completely forgot about spectating. I'm assuming you "escaped" through the ocean area... I think that's the only one not blocked off. I'll go through it again.

13. I have something in mind for that

14. I noticed this too but couldn't think of what to put there. I might extend the wall out, which would give the sniper ledge a bit more room.

15. This was a big oversight, at first I too thought it was vertex lighting, but realized that I used a material that was specific to the large stock rock meshes (the ones in the background of the map) and those dark areas were "empty" spots on the UV map. I changed the texture and it's working out fine.

16. This is a good tip. If I were to critique myself I'd say gameplay was always my weak point, so I'll definitely consider moving around some ammo.

17. Like you said earlier, I should make that mesh smaller so I can align it to the mesh much more easily.

18. I didn't put much thought into that, it was mainly just to spruce up barren corners. So I might change it.

19. I might move the bio into the hallway behind it, although it would be a lot closer to the rocket. Not sure what I'll do here

20. I went through yesterday and made many fixes to the BSP/mesh alignment issues. One of the problems was the lightmap on the right angle brick mesh. Some of the edge polygons were too close and light (or darkness, as seen in Example 3) was "bleeding" through to the other polygons. Also, I aligned the textures. The texture is very inconsistent, so it looks weird unless it's perfectly lined up. But many of the areas were cleaned up and some blend together perfectly, which surprised me...

21. I'll play around with the lighting. In my mind before creating the map I thought of a more pinkish light, and I see what you mean with things washed out. It's as if the sun is a mile above the level I chose the sky because I wanted the blue to contrast with the bricks, which is another reason I chose sugh light fog, so it wouldn't wash out the sky. I definitely loved working with the theme, and the whole broken stone wall really turned out a lot better than I expected. So maybe in the future if I'm grabbing for a theme I'll rehash it with a night/dusk theme for some CTF or VCTF...

22. Never been a huge fan of lifts, although I've used them before. I think that would require going back and modifying the layout to make the lift fit in better, which I don't think would be worth it.

23. I'm kicking myself for this... In hindsight I would have gone with additive in a snap. I didn't plan on having the ocean there when I started, it was made mid layout creation to expand the map a bit. Next time! Next time I don't think the light building will be an issue... as long as the BSP faces are unlit and don't accept lights I should be alright, but then again, this is my intro to the new editor
I'm going to mess with the light a bit and see if the BSP gets in the way.

Thank you again for your critique, and going above and beyond! It's highly appreciated, and I'm sure you'll be able to see some of your recommended changes in the final product

[Odedge]

Thank you again for your critique, and going above and beyond! It's highly appreciated, and I'm sure you'll be able to see some of your recommended changes in the final product

You're very welcome tidu. While I can see your point about going "above and beyond", I think most people don't really try or maybe don't know what to do for a beta test.

It's always been rather fun for me to complain, I mean make constructive comments and if the map turns out better for it (especially if I keep in my map rotation), then everyone benefits from my time (and yours as the map maker).

I read your response and I know you understand where I am coming from and am glad you took them in stride. I don't think adding lifts is that important (especially after the layout is done and you're not a big fan of them).

I think if you changed the lighting a bit (give it some color to match your sky dome's light source) and it turns out well enough, it's not worth it to redo the BSP.

If you used a darker brick, I think a bright light (not white though) would work well (I did this in DM-Tomac). But with such a light colored brick, I think a light sources that isn't so bright is the way to go (I think it's that whole contrast thing ).

Anyways, good luck with your changes and am looking forward to the final result. For what it's worth, I would be willing to give it another run through once you have made your planned changes.

[tidu]

Re-did the lighting, new skydome, got a kind of late afternoon thing going on. IMO it looks a lot better, just feels a lot better walking through the map. Still got a few things to work on though.

[stevelois]

Hey, that look much better

The shadows are very apparent now. Still, I see the "stairs" effect so if you can crank the settings a bit without adding to much overhead, the better But it's way better than before

[tidu]

What do you mean by the stairs effect?

[tidu]

Finished and released the map for PC and PS3, further comments here: http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?p=26342280

Thanks everybody for the help.