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CTF-Hero's Leap [Beta 2.1/MSU entry][Pics][Updated 8th May '09]

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    CTF-Hero's Leap [Beta 2.1/MSU entry][Pics][Updated 8th May '09]

    [Update 8th May '09]: Beta 2.1 Release / MSU entry.

    Name: CTF-Hero's Leap
    Version: Beta 2.1, MSU entry
    Compatibility: PC Patch 2.0 onwards.

    Hero's Leap is an Izanagi stronghold and a testing ground for experienced warriors. Rumor has it that an assortment of secret artifacts are also held within the guild halls at Hero's Leap. Now it has come under attack by a team of Necris Phayder Assassins looking to steal these artifacts and attain glory among their dark bretheren. Is is time to put the Izanagi warriors to the test. All of their fates will be decided.

    8-14 Players. (Bots are fully supported in CTF, but they're too shy about attacking in Greed - no known fix for this atm)


    I've submitted the latest version to the MSU competition as I guess I'm close enough to done to do that. Ah, maybe there were some things I'd have liked to have done but I guess they're minor in the grand scheme of things so I'm not going to fuss.

    So, what's changed? Well, this version just has some minor changes over Beta 2.0 so I just called it 2.1:

    1. Signposts added next to the heroic leaps on the central platforms.

    I added a visual clue / courtesy marker next to the jump pads that send you to the base rooftops as a friendly warning, just like the sign posts on the towers. Mainly it's to clue up newcomers to the map, but it also adds a bit to the feel.

    2. Cleaned up some redundant path nodes.

    This was just to get rid of a build warning xD Now I just have the 4 warnings over using Teleporters instead of UTTeleporters, but as I have no intention of reverting back to using UTTeleporters I'll just have to put up with it xD

    3. New map pic.

    4. Revised recommended player count from 8-12 to 8-14.

    Ok, that's it I think... short and sweet. download it and have fun! Provide feedback!

    These are from Beta 1, but there's only a difference in 1 shot.

    Credits: Cirian. Big thanks to Epic and everyone in the forums.

    Thanks: Everyone who posted during Alpha! Your feedback gives me a very helpful reality check. Thank you.


    Download: CTF-Hero's Leap (Beta 2.1 / MSU entry) (PC)

    Previous versions: Beta 2 (PC Patch 2.0+) Beta 1 (PC Patch 2.0+) Alpha CTF Version (PC Patch 1.3+) Alpha VCTF Version (PC Patch 1.3+)

    Ok, it's been up a few days and I see a few people have been downloading, so I thought I'd better post some questions and update people with how the map's progressing as I work towards beta.

    I've been working on the front of the bases, taking them up from pretty bare looking BSP to a more detailed meshed version. I've done a quick lighting pass so I can get an idea of the final look, but of course it's still work in progress.

    These are shots from the editor, both unlit and lit.

    I've partitioned the large open room that was at the front of the base into a balcony and what I suppose is a "sunroom". While the balcony is a sniper platform with an excellent view over most of the level, the room behind houses a portal into the main base and I've been working it up as a command room.

    Again, unlit and lit shots from the editor.

    The power-up in the middle of the room there is a Berserk in the red base and an Invisibility in the blue base. Potentially these could be used by a sniper on the balcony or by an attacker translocating up and infiltrating the main base through the teleporter.

    So, what I'd really like to ask people that have been playing the map is how they found the CTF rules on this map compared to the VCTF rules?

    My own opinion is that the hoverboard makes capturing too easy and the map is geared more towards translocators anyway, so maybe I'll ditch the VCTF version. Thoughts?

    How are people finding the initial layout of pickups? Too many? Anything really distracting?

    How are people finding the routes between the bases? Do people use the cave route at all? What about the platform route? Through the water under the platforms? The tower to tower jump?

    How are the Mantas working out? A manageable threat?

    How are people finding defending/attacking? Is it fun?

    Thanks for any replies


      Looks very nice, heroes leap seems fun haha, one question; how'd you get your editor to be blue? ?_?


        Originally posted by TheAgent View Post
        Looks very nice, heroes leap seems fun haha, one question; how'd you get your editor to be blue? ?_?
        Sweet The blue editor? I think it goes blue from me using the silver colour scheme in XP. Probably.


          That's cool LOL. So I played your map I somehow survived the leap with 90 life haha but most of the time I die hehe it's cool cuz when I die a freindly bot picks up the flag where I dropped it. To score, so it's fun I didn't find anything wrong with it


            Those pillars seem out of place visually but are fun. I'm 50/50 on those.
            Seems to favour snipers too much. This would become annoying online.

            Nice and smooth and aggressive bots (apart from the manta problem).
            Visually very nice.
            Good stuff so far.


              Ok I play tested the map and it looks nice but there are a few things I would change. I have 6 pictures I took and I'll throw those out first then talk about the map after.

              Ok, first there is spawn points in front of the flag, as pictured in the first picture. This is the major reason why corruption becomes a stalemate, because you kill 3 people going to get the flag, they spawn infront of you and kill you on your way out. I would say the 2 courtyards behind the flag with shock and rockets are good places to put the spawn points. Maybe one or two in those hallways or in front IMO anyway.

              The second picture the building with the stairs. as in the picture it looks weird with the gaps, but as I'm sure this is an alpha you would have fixed it but added the picture anyways.

              I like the idea of hopping from tower to tower, but its a death wish for running flags. Snipers will take your head off quite easily with it being as open as it is. The only flag routes you really have is on the terrain and across the bridge, or taking the big jump pad.

              Which is another picture, that one jump pad takes you across half the map. I would say put a pillar that is a bit above the other pillars so you can hop down on them in the middle, like a pillar that is above the double D, or just move that one up. and then take the jump pad to there and then run flags from there.

              I would also provide more jump boots in each base. I think I only seen one that was up by the sniper next to the elevator. I would have at least 2 maybe 3, specially with you having the poles to jump across jump boots would definitely help with getting across there. Also would think about putting jump boots somewhere in the center of the poles area so while your on your way over you can recharge your boots, but thats personal preference, I like maps with a lot of jump boots it promotes flag running.

              Thats it for now if I think of anything else I'll post. Keep it coming it looks great.


                Thanks for your feedback firefly. The thing I'm most worried about with respect to snipers is the berserk I mapped in the red base. Maybe I'll switch it for another invisibility, we'll see. I'm open to ideas.

                Oldskool0482, really detailed post, much appreciated

                Ok, I'll go through your feedback starting with the pictures.

                Picture 1 - point taken about spawning without a weapon in sight, and I agree, the player shouldn't need to know the map to find a weapon. I'll review the spawn points and at least move those two in the hallway that can't see a weapon.

                Also, I'll tie this in with your point about spawning in front of the flag since it's related. It's a valid point, but there are a lot of ways to escape the base: left door, right door, main door, balcony, left rooftops and right rooftops. Some of those options ideally need jump boots to take advantage of, like escaping via the rooftops the instant you snatch the flag by jumping up to the level above, but my point is is that the flag runner can really mix things up to avoid re-spawns. I'll see how moving those hallway spawns affects things first.

                Pictures 2, 4 & 6 Those bits will all look quite different by beta, no worries. I've been doing deco for the tower interiors, those front courtyards and those sneeky ledges down the sides of the bases are sealed off now, they were never intended to be playable routes. Thanks for spotting those things anyway, it's all appreciated

                Picture 3 That jump pad was a happy accident as it happens, you take ~66 damage for taking it unless you have jump boots, in which case you take ~4 damage. The amount can be increased by increasing the boost time in unrealed, which results in a higher jump arc and increased falling damage. The very original jump was always fatal unless you had jump boots, making it a very interesting route if you could preserve just a single charge or fancied a suicide flag delivery to your own tower.

                The fundamental idea is to trade taking a known amount of damage for a faster route, versus safer but slower cave or water routes. The other dangerous route is straight across the central platforms - the flagger might do better with sniper cover, but regardless it's fairly quick and there might be a shield belt half way and there's always the possibility of super health if they fall in the water. It mainly boils down to managing risk.

                My opinion of that huge jump is that it is indeed the route I tend to favour right now, but I'm not sure if this is because it is the best route or if I just like to fly across the map and admire the view? I think the safest route is probably down the side stairs, down the tower (in my current version there's some Thigh Pads there next to the Bio Rifle, which has moved slightly out of the way, and a Flak cannon on the way out), across the water (bag the super health on the way if it's there), then out and up through your own tower and eventually into your base through the side door. That's probably the best cover from snipers, though you can expect chasers. Sliming stairs and doorways and liberal doses of backwards flak fire are my usual counter-measures for that.

                Balancing the pros and cons of each route is definitely something I'm keeping an eye on, but I'm unlikely to eliminate the jump. I suppose I could try having it fire the player to the central platform just below the shield belt as an experiment... although I do think the idea of getting shot from one flank to the other is pretty cool

                Picture 5 That staircase has still got the mesh collision turned on for it and I hitch on it too, maybe because the angle gets too steep if you take the inside track. I'll fiddle with it when I do a proper blocking volume pass, see if I can iron it out.

                There's just one more thing you mentioned (hope I didn't miss anything), and that's more jump boots. Maaaaaaaaybe I have to be a bit careful because jump boots make the big leap much easier and you have to nurse them a bit if you take them from the base or tower basement. I used to have an extra pair on the middle floating platform section though, I could put them back so that players wouldn't need to go up to the shield belt level to get across.

                A major "thank you" for all that, it was very useful. Keep it coming!


                  Thanks for all your post, I have the same problem and now it has been sorted!


                    Beta release

                    Ok, Beta is out!

                    Check the front page for all the changes and download link. I'll put a copy of the link at the bottom of this post as well for convenience. It was cooked using Patch 2.0, so that's what you'll need.

                    Thanks for checking it out and have fun

                    I'm going to archive a copy of most of the old front page below just so there's a record somewhere ->

                    Originally posted by Cirian View Post
                    [Update 19th March '09]: Progress update.

                    Name: CTF-Hero's Leap and VCTF-Hero's Leap
                    Version: Alpha
                    Compatibility: PC Patch 1.3 onwards.

                    Hero's Leap is an Izanagi stronghold and a testing ground for experienced warriors. Rumor has it that an assortment of secret artifacts are also held within the guild halls at Hero's Leap. Now it has come under attack by a team of Necris Phayder Assassins looking to steal these artifacts and attain glory among their dark bretheren. Is is time to put the Izanagi warriors to the test. All of their fates will be decided.

                    8-12 Players. (Bots are supported already as well)

                    Okay! I'm really happy to get this early version out for playtesting. It's "first playable", which means it's fun and the main features are there I think, but it's raw and I want to hone it and that means letting people play it and get invaluable feedback from them!

                    So, 2 things.

                    First, the name. The "Hero's Leap" is a jump pad you will find. You can wear Jump Boots or just load up on health and armour before performing it, but it's quite fun even if you wipe out at the other side. You'll see what I mean!

                    Second, the game type. I was originally going for "pure" CTF, and then as this is quite an organic process one day I just thought "what this map needs is a couple of Mantas in the lower area to make the platform route more attractive!", and because it's fun to tear around in a Manta and pancake people they just stuck. I also added Avrils in each of the war towers to help deal with Mantas and to make the war towers even more fun to snipe from, just for those who like to defend. Because there are just a couple of vehicles in the map I've decided to share the map under both sets of CTF rules (CTF and VCTF) because they make the map feel very different and hey, maybe people want to try both? I'll be very interested too see how this works out with everyone.

                    There is full bot support in this map including "guard points", with some minor caveats. Bots don't bail out of the Mantas at the moment when they get to the enemy base, I need to set that up... but they're quite effective just camping in their Manta, so it's not a huge problem right now. If you see them doing anything else that's a big issue, just let me know.

                    Oh yeah... there is an "artifact" in each guild hall. Red get a Berserk, and Blue get an Invisibility. Let me know how these work out.
                    Ok, so that's the alpha phase over and done with. Thanks for everyone who's replied so far, much appreciated.

                    The beta phase will run until around the end of the month (April), and then I'll wrap this one up. Thanks for all your feedback, keep it coming!

                    -> Download CTF-Hero's Leap (Beta) <-



                      I think taming the alpha version jump was a bad idea. I'm going to release another beta build soon with insane jumping back with a vengeance, because it was a ton of fun.


                        I just tried my map for the first time in Greed, and the bots tend to hang around in the base. Do I need to do something special to get bots working properly in Greed or what's going on?

                        While I'm waiting I'll have a look at one of the stock maps to see if I can spot anything new that I need to add, maybe there's something new I need to set...

                        Actually, today was the first time I've played Greed, even though the patch has been out over a month, lol. I had some fun on Suspense Necris and I definitely want to get it working properly on Hero's Leap now that I've got crazy jumps back in the map. The map plays a lot faster and I'm having fun again. Just got to find out what's up with these bots and then I can upload.


                          Beta 2 available now

                          Beta 2 is ready! See the first post for everything, I've updated that.

                          I'm just going to copy the update notes from Beta 1 here so there's still a record.

                          Here's the change list from Beta 1:

                          Originally posted by Cirian
                          1. Lots of art and sound work.

                          The map is really close to the final look and feel; I think I'm pretty close with the atmosphere and I'm hoping it's just refining from here on in. Tell me what you think.

                          2. Route rebalancing.

                          I did some timing tests running the different routes and I tried to factor in the risk involved with each route.

                          i.) The tower-to-tower leap was too fast and safe, so to slow it down jumper now lands at the foot of the tower near the lower entrance. There are supplies to help with the climb, and quick chasers can try to intercept at either the upper ground floor (where the rocket launcher is) or try waiting on the roof. The tower climb is one of my favourite bits, it feels better balanced but tell me what you think of the change.

                          ii.) The route across the central platforms is now the fastest route as well as probably being the most dangerous. The highest central platform has been removed (the shield belt has moved onto the next platform down), and each branch of platforms offer something different: the route through the middle potentially offers the shield belt (and further down there are the UDamage and Super Health, which is underwater still), while the left route to the slightly higher platform offers a shortcut via the jump pad to half way across to the other side, essentially skipping several platform jumps. So the choice is basically: quicker route vs a shield belt.

                          iii.) The route through the towers and manta caverns is still the longest route, but it is often quiet and has plenty of useful supplies on the way. Specifically, I've added and extra health pack and some thigh pads in each tower on the lower ground floor and floor just above it. The mantas in each cave can be used to speed the route up on the way to the enemy base and then dumped outside at either set of stairs.

                          3.) Bot improvements.

                          The bots will dump any mantas they use to get to the enemy base now, and I've ironed out some areas of collision they were hitching on as well. They're still not 100% perfect but they were pretty tough to beat on Skilled in testing (very fast and organised) so I'm kinda happy. Tell me if you see anything you reckon I might be able to fix, or just feedback in general. I was pretty impressed how the bots took to the map, they go everywhere, even stealing the flag over the rooftops and all sorts.

                          4.) Super Pickup "Artifacts"

                          In Alpha I had a Berserk in the Red Base and an Invisibility in the Blue Base. I came to the conclusion that Berserk sniping wasn't something I wanted, but the Invisibility opened up a host of cool options so I replaced the Berserk with an Invisibility. During my route timings and jump pad adjustments I made it so that an invisible player can just make it across the central platforms before the invisibility runs out to avoid any snipers (or anything else) on their way into the enemy base. Note that you're not really invisible if you're shielded or carrying the flag, a) because you're a glowing red phantom and b) because there's a disembodied flag running around with a massive light on it.

                          5.) Optimisation.

                          I've done a lot of different things to improve the frame rate and memory footprint. I got a nice boost on my system, so you might find the Beta runs faster than the Alpha.

                          6.) VCTF.

                          I briefly dabbled in the idea of a VCTF version of the map and released it for Alpha along side the original CTF. I'm dropping it for the time being because I think it's a distraction and the map wasn't originally designed as a VCTF, but what did people think of it? I'm open to doing a VCTF release as well if some people still want it.
                          Update notes for beta 2 are on the first post. Post your feedback here - I'm especially keen to hear what people think of the revived and expanded heroic leaping, overall map balance, and if the map is FUN!


                            What character model are you using in those screenshots? The bi-pedaled legged creature I mean. I've never seen them before. Great looking map btw, I'll download it later.


                              Originally posted by fpsmajor View Post
                              What character model are you using in those screenshots? The bi-pedaled legged creature I mean. I've never seen them before. Great looking map btw, I'll download it later.
                              Hi! I've been a big Necris fan ever since I picked up the original UT, so I have a necris character model. The character I use is wearing female necris armour type 2, which is the armour Alanna wears. I can't remember if unlocking Alanna also unlocks her armour or not... or if it becomes available once you unlock Akasha... but that's probably why the model isn't familiar to you.

                              So, the short answer is that I'm using Alanna's armour with Akasha's head and a type 2 face mask! The black version in the characer customisation screen looks awesome btw

                              Hope you have fun on the map. I'll be interested to hear your first impressions.