MapMixer 3.00 [BETA 1] [Pics]

[sinx]

Yup, the Client Menu hasn't gone anywhere. If you don't have a key for it you can type into the console:

mutate mapmixer clientmenu

This will open the Client Menu where you can assign keys.

To see all the console commands (not many at this stage compared to v2.x sorry):

mutate mapmixer help

[»TheHitMan«]

Can't wait for beta 2!

[dodlegion]

I have quick start selected on the Rules menu. When a map loads up I get window that says loading player skins. Is there a way to get MM to load that stuff before the match starts?

[sinx]

I have quick start selected on the Rules menu. When a map loads up I get window that says loading player skins. Is there a way to get MM to load that stuff before the match starts?

The dialog is a function of MapMixer and is completely normal and appropriate. It appears when it does for a number of reasons but it is enough to say it is the appropriate time to be loading player skins. Even if it didn't show, you'd still have to wait that time for the player skins to load. If you don't want player skins to load then I guess I could provide an option to turn it off. The question is, are you willing to play with the Mr Demo Guy skin?

That Match will Begin Play based upon your "Quick Start" setting.

Hope that answers your question.

[dodlegion]

What I meant to say was player models not skins. The reason I ask is when the match begins gamelplay is halted and I cannot take action until the loading is done. Say I begin my first map in the session no model loading takes place until I start the next map. To me its just inconvenient to have it load models on the fly during gameplay on every map. Running UT without MM there is no model loading when the match begins. But it could just be my machine. While loading the game stutters while loading models thats all. Its brief so its not that bad.

Other than that theres a lot of things I like about MM

1 Map cycle. Works just like ut2k4. I like that I can pick a map and MM automaticly loads my maplist where I left off! I complained the map cycle in this thread and I just hate how the developers set up the map cycle its friggen stupid. CLICKME But MM fixes that.

2 Translocators in deathmatch. I dont know epic took out the option to use translocators for deathmatch. But MM allows me to use the TL's in DM

3 The main Title screen. Streamlined to the point I like that. I perfer it stay that way.

4 I have patch 2.0 and MM is very stable.

5 Individial map settings. I have a couple maps that are so huge it would be nice to have those maps load in special settings for those maps. MM allows me to do so.

6 I begin playing in just 2 mouse clicks. I have to flip threw a couple menus without MM to begin just make sure the map cycle is loaded and my mutators load. MM just loads everything I specify I dont need to double check. Just click and go. I complained that in the thread link above.

To having the so much customization available is so much better than having none. Keep up the good work.

[sinx]

What I meant to say was player models not skins. The reason I ask is when the match begins gamelplay is halted and I cannot take action until the loading is done. Say I begin my first map in the session no model loading takes place until I start the next map. To me its just inconvenient to have it load models on the fly during gameplay on every map. Running UT without MM there is no model loading when the match begins. But it could just be my machine. While loading the game stutters while loading models thats all. Its brief so its not that bad.

That's because UT3 doesn't allow you to change models for each match in a session, whereas MapMixer allows you to UT3 (without MM) loads the models for the First match before it finishes loading and they are thus extended to the whole session. These bots travel through the seamless level transition to the next map for each match in that session until you return to the Main Menu. In order for MM to allow you to use different models/skins per match in a session, it needs to load them each match!

(The next bit is emphasised because it is important for understanding what MM is all about and why people would or wouldn't use MM.)

The key thing to remember with MM is that it treats each match in a session as a unique singular match where each one can be different from the other. It is central to the philosophy of MM to allow each match to be different. Along with Map, the Game Type, Rules, Mutators, Bots and Skill level etc can be entirely different per match in a session. This is the core definition of why people would or would not use MapMixer - depending on their needs and scope of play.

If your definition of fun is broad (as mine is) then you would find MM helps bring the flexibility that you need. If your definition of fun is more competitive in nature and narrow focused then while MM is still very useful, it isn't as important. For example, if you only like playing one gametype in a session where every match has the same number of bots, same rules etc, then MM is still very useful but not as important.

Does that make sense?

Other than that theres a lot of things I like about MM

1 Map cycle. Works just like ut2k4. I like that I can pick a map and MM
automaticly loads my maplist where I left off! I complained the map cycle in this thread and I just hate how the developers set up the map cycle its friggen stupid. CLICKME But MM fixes that.

Yup, again, this is a core part of my design goals for MM.

2 Translocators in deathmatch. I dont know epic took out the option to use translocators for deathmatch. But MM allows me to use the TL's in DM

Just something I added. It sort of went against my intentions of not specifically hard-coding for in-game content, however, I just couldn't resist this one. I know why they chose not to put it in UT3 as it can drastically change the core gameplay but part of my philosophy is to let the user decide what they want. I may not get perfection all the time but I try **** hard to let users do what they want and how they want it.

3 The main Title screen. Streamlined to the point I like that. I perfer it stay that way.

I agree. I'm attempting to make it slightly better looking for MM v3.00 beta 2 while keeping an eye on how long it takes to load and use. I think I have kept the balance but feel free to give me your impressions when you see and use it.

4 I have patch 2.0 and MM is very stable.

Yup, there weren't that many bugs I found in Beta 1, however, now that Patch 2.0 is released and I've been making some adjustments, I'm releasing Private builds of Beta 2 as too much stuff is changing for it to technically stay beta. I guess it's just a timing thing with the UT3 Patch 2.0 coming out when it did. (Anyone wanting Private Beta builds should simply email me and request that they be put on the list.)

5 Individial map settings. I have a couple maps that are so huge it would be nice to have those maps load in special settings for those maps. MM allows me to do so.

You're referring to "Map Defaults" I imagine. Good for adding special content to Christmas maps etc.

6 I begin playing in just 2 mouse clicks. I have to flip threw a couple menus without MM to begin just make sure the map cycle is loaded and my mutators load. MM just loads everything I specify I dont need to double check. Just click and go. I complained that in the thread link above.

Glad that works well for you. Again it's part of my design goal. I'm not here to say my ideas are better - just saying that I have a design goal or philosophy.

To having the so much customization available is so much better than having none. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for your feedback. I think there is always room for improvement and I hope that each version gets better and better.

[ohnoyoudont]

1)-does this have the ability to designate
*how many* bots you want on each team like in UT2004? (don't care about *which* bots, just the number of them on each team)

2)-does it work with the latest patches including Titan pack?

[dodlegion]

That's because UT3 doesn't allow you to change models for each match in a session, whereas MapMixer allows you to UT3 (without MM) loads the models for the First match before it finishes loading and they are thus extended to the whole session. These bots travel through the seamless level transition to the next map for each match in that session until you return to the Main Menu. In order for MM to allow you to use different models/skins per match in a session, it needs to load them each match!

(The next bit is emphasised because it is important for understanding what MM is all about and why people would or wouldn't use MM.)

The key thing to remember with MM is that it treats each match in a session as a unique singular match where each one can be different from the other. It is central to the philosophy of MM to allow each match to be different. Along with Map, the Game Type, Rules, Mutators, Bots and Skill level etc can be entirely different per match in a session. This is the core definition of why people would or would not use MapMixer - depending on their needs and scope of play.

Ok I see where you commin form. But how about having this optional? As in having MM load up random bots as defualt but have an option to turn it off. As soon as the map is done loading I want to start playing I dont want to have to wait few more seconds for more loading to begin playing. I wanna get in there and play. MM already provides the customization I want I dont care if I play same bot setup over and over. Just a friendly suggestion.

[brdempsey69]

1)-does this have the ability to designate
*how many* bots you want on each team like in UT2004? (don't care about *which* bots, just the number of them on each team)

2)-does it work with the latest patches including Titan pack?

Yes, it most certainly does & if you want, you can select which bots you want on each team & yes, it works with the latest patches.

[Th3 Duk3]

How is the "Tournament" part comming on? I still long on haveing a tournament again (sigh)

[sinx]

Ok I see where you commin form. But how about having this optional? As in having MM load up random bots as defualt but have an option to turn it off. As soon as the map is done loading I want to start playing I dont want to have to wait few more seconds for more loading to begin playing. I wanna get in there and play. MM already provides the customization I want I dont care if I play same bot setup over and over. Just a friendly suggestion.

In the end there are two possibilities:

[1] Don't use different bots per match and use 'Mr Demo Guy' model for each bot/player

[2] Use different bots per match and wait a small time for the character models/skins to load.

Which option do you prefer?

[sinx]

1)-does this have the ability to designate
*how many* bots you want on each team like in UT2004? (don't care about *which* bots, just the number of them on each team)

2)-does it work with the latest patches including Titan pack?

As brdempsey69 indicates, MM supports it. Look at Team Biasing or the possibility of specifying how many bots per side. It all depends on how you use MM to host your game session.

Let me know if you have any questions regarding this.

[sinx]

How is the "Tournament" part comming on? I still long on haveing a tournament again (sigh)

I have a new mode slated for MM 3.1 currently called 'Challenge' (though the name is not set in stone). This is my first step along the way.

In a nut shell, you'll define a *specific* customised Map List and it will then be locked in place and it will record a high-scores list for it.

My first step before that will be to bring back Session Stats. (So much work to do -sigh-)

[dodlegion]

In the end there are two possibilities:

[1] Don't use different bots per match and use 'Mr Demo Guy' model for each bot/player

[2] Use different bots per match and wait a small time for the character models/skins to load.

Which option do you prefer?

Well what is a 'demo guy'? When I play the game I never knew that UT used the same models for every match because it wasn't even noticeable. Im just saying for those they would like different models to be loaded have option for them and have an option for those that dont mind playing against the same bot set. Im just offering a critique.

How about having all the bot models cached somewhere?

When say demo guy do you mean one model loaded for say 12 bots? UT loads a bot set with a varity of bots. As you said it uses the same bot set for every match. That something I dont mind. But if you mean use the same model for 12 bots yes that is boring.

Say for example. What if I played a map with 32 bots, I dont want to wait for 32 bots to load up after the map loads up, while Im being shot at. I do have a map thats recommended for 32 players.

Again just a friendly suggestion on how to make MM even better. I really enjoy using MM. Hope that makes sense.

[sinx]

Well what is a 'demo guy'? When I play the game I never knew that UT used the same models for every match because it wasn't even noticeable. Im just saying for those they would like different models to be loaded have option for them and have an option for those that dont mind playing against the same bot set. Im just offering a critique.

I understand. While it is already possible with MM to use the same Faction per side for each match in a session (remembering that each match can be a different gametype and thus different number of teams, as in 1 to 4), MM does not use the same mechanism that Epic use, where Bots are transitioned between levels using an background level.

How about having all the bot models cached somewhere?

I'm not in front of the codebase at the moment but from what I recall, the character models are cached between levels but this also applies to MM because MM does not load the character models itself but simply prompts the Epic code to do it, as this is all done asynchronously using native code (although I don't think the word asynchronous describes the reality of it). If you use the same models for each match in a MM session, I would imagine that character model loading times currently would be significantly reduced between matches because the character models are already cached.

When say demo guy do you mean one model loaded for say 12 bots? UT loads a bot set with a varity of bots. As you said it uses the same bot set for every match. That something I dont mind. But if you mean use the same model for 12 bots yes that is boring.

'Mr Demo Guy' is a joke term used to refer to the standard model that is used when the actual model cannot be loaded, for various reasons.

Say for example. What if I played a map with 32 bots, I dont want to wait for 32 bots to load up after the map loads up, while Im being shot at. I do have a map thats recommended for 32 players.

Again just a friendly suggestion on how to make MM even better. I really enjoy using MM. Hope that makes sense.

I think at the end of the day, your problem lies in the fact that you are using Quick Start and there is some interference between the match starting and the model loading. This is not an unreasonable complaint/request by any means. The best outcome would be for the match to not actually begin (in Quick Start mode) *until* all characters models are loaded - which, I think, at the end of the day is what you are saying. I'll have to look into this as I may not be able to stop a Quick Start match from actually starting - but I'll have to look first before I can properly comment on this.