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DM-Downpour [Beta download + pics][Final version available]

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    #16
    Thanks for all this feedback; I'm taking it into account.

    While making the map I seriously considered either lowering the water and turning it into a kill zone, or just making it knee-high, raising the ground and opening up the bottom level for gameplay. The latter option would be a great deal of work, but I'd be willing to give it a try if enough people think it'd make the map less frustrating.

    Regarding ramps, please let me know exactly which ones you're getting stuck on. I tested these as thoroughly as possible and used blocking volumes to replace the collision on ones that were giving me trouble, but it seems some slipped by.

    The overly open nature of the map is something I'm not happy about too, but I'm really not sure what I could add to break line of sight from one end to the other. The buildings are already much more tightly-packed than they would be in real life, and it's an unfortunate case of realism getting in the way of good gameplay. For what it's worth I could try extending the high-tech building forward a few metres below the Redeemer, or maybe add some wooden fences to the edges of some buildings - though that would look very strange.

    Any more suggestions for improvement would really be appreciated. After working on this thing for about two weeks solid I'm determined to work out as many of the kinks as I can manage.

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      #17
      The ramps I got stuck on are the ones leaving the room with the armor helmet on the way to get the armor leggings and the ramp leaving the RL area heading back towards the direction of the Flak cannon behind the bilboard sign (I think that is what that is). As far as the level itself I would have opted for plan B tbh. Can you go ahead and try that please as you said.

      And I think you could place a half destroyed statue (like a destroyed Statue of Liberty head or something ) in the center if this ruined city to help break up the hitscan dominance. Also this is why I think it is a good idea to trade in the redeemer for a super health and Udamage pickups (or one could be the berserk).

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        #18
        Just bumping this for more feedback. I'm still torn on what to do about the water and lack of cover, so any opinions would be helpful.

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          #19
          I like Anuban's idea of a statue in the middle of the water. I don't know how artistically gifted you are, but a big frickin head would be really cool. I, too, got hung up on the ramp, but what was strange was if I backed up and went again, I would move freely. I backtracked and got stuck again, and repeated the last step. Odd! Maybe lower the fence down, just a tad. Make the water knee high, unless you want a pool that has a redeemer down it. That would be cool. I would also move some of the weapons to have more space. Like move the Shock rifle and its ammo on the opposite side of the road that has the mini gun. Maybe move the rocket into a building.

          I like this map alot. It's almost there man. Good flow, nice set up, just some tweaks and you're home free.

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            #20
            I'm not sure there's room for a statue, but there'll definitely need to be more decoration down there with the water level lowered. I have a horrible feeling I'll also have to space the buildings out more to make the alleys between them properly traversable, which is going to be a lot of work on top of rearranging everything to fit with the raised ground.

            So far the plan is this:
            - Extend the front of the high-tech building forward as far as possible below the Redeemer (or whatever I replace it with - maybe invisibility) to provide cover between the two halves of the map.
            - Try to add some sort of barrier to the edges of some rooftops so players aren't so exposed all the time.
            - Open the entrance to the high-tech building on the ground and create a passage to a lift that will take you up to the room with the helmet.
            - Open the front door of one of the other buildings and add some stairs and rooms leading to the upper level.
            - Add weapons (suggestions welcome) and maybe a powerup to the ground level.
            - Move some jump pads to the ground level so players can reach the rooftops easily.

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              #21
              ^^^ how about lose a lot of the water? No invisibility please ... I am so tired of the bots getting this and abusing me ... even on experienced level ... man these bots are just too **** smart this time around and too accurate. lol

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                #22
                Well, yeah, this plan revolves around removing all swimmable water from the map. Though I may have a very small patch of deep water in the middle that you can use to break long falls.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Setheran View Post
                  Well, yeah, this plan revolves around removing all swimmable water from the map. Though I may have a very small patch of deep water in the middle that you can use to break long falls.
                  That would be cool ... I think you could easily still have a little flooded area ... that is where one of the better pickups should be so that people have to consider is it worth maybe getting caught in the water to get the powerup. I just think that having water play such a large part in the gameplay mechanice doesn't work with this version of UT3 because of how accurate the bots are and how difficult it is for players to maneuver in the water ... even getting out is not as easy as a quick jump out of the water. Thanks man. I know this is going to be one super bad level when it is all said and done.

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                    #24
                    You may not need a statue in the middle of the map if the water is knee high. There's plenty of maps that are more open than this. The issue with the space was more because you have to swim and therefore get shot easily.

                    Anuban, turn down the settings on your bots. I think that the reason we make maps is because we want people to play them, and a person is way better than a bot. I just use bots for something to shoot. There's no reason for a mapper to change something because bots exploit it.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Saiya-jin View Post
                      You may not need a statue in the middle of the map if the water is knee high. There's plenty of maps that are more open than this. The issue with the space was more because you have to swim and therefore get shot easily.

                      Anuban, turn down the settings on your bots. I think that the reason we make maps is because we want people to play them, and a person is way better than a bot. I just use bots for something to shoot. There's no reason for a mapper to change something because bots exploit it.
                      I'm not going to turn the bots down below Experienced that is ridic. Anyway plenty of LOUSY maps are more open than this ... most good DM maps are not. Maybe you need to study level design or lead a project or make some maps to understand this, or maybe you haven't been playing long enough to know what makes a map really good and will get it placed into a rotation on a public server. And of course a mapper should resolve as many bot related exploits as possible ... many of us do not play online and therefore our bot play experience is crucial for us and the better it can be we appreciate that. A map is made for the entire community so therefore all sides of the equation have to be considered ... not just one half.

                      Edit: Oh .. I see you are new to the community .... and you have the nerve to suggest that a mapper only make a level for online players ... man get out of here please.

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                        #26
                        can someone upload this to fileden.com or unrealcentral.com please-takes far too long to download and I havent got the time to stay downloading. I really want to play it !

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                          #27
                          Okay Anuban, to set you straight, I've been with a ut clan since 2002. I know maps and how to play them and what makes them good. Your attitude needs to be checked at the door. I was offering constructive criticism to the mappers and to you. I don't have time for this ****, and I'm not going to respond to anymore of your rants. I've seen your other threads and you have the same attitude. Keep it up and no one will listen to you.

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                            #28
                            Can't we all just get along?

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                              #29
                              I've really enjoyed playing this so far, I think it's well-constructed! I don't know how you feel about the underwater section, but I thought being able to swim under that metal structure and around the main parts of the level was pretty cool. Are you planning to add more effects to the water volume? (At the moment, the screen darkens and you get depth of field, but there's no kind of blueish effect like you would get in some of the stock maps)

                              Performance was mostly good, but I think it suffers in some of the open areas - every time I spun round to face the main area, there was a tiny bit of stuttering, which is something I don't normally get! I'm not sure how optimisation in UE3 works, do you still have antiportals to occlude meshes and so on? Maybe that might be something to look into, I'm not sure... Regardless, though, good map!

                              Anuban, if you want your opinions to be respected, it might be an idea to restrain and compose yourself rather than snapping at people in an autonomous fashion just because they said "I disagree" or suggested an alternative option. Your way doesn't have to be the only way, you know.

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                                #30
                                I've continued to play the map some more, and I must continue to say that I am very happy with it as is.

                                However, I do agree about the hitscan dominance, and having something large in the center would definitely offset this, and perhaps add a nice flair to the map. At the same time, I feel this might detract from some of the challenge and I'm not sure it would necessarily add to the gameplay.

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