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WAR-Dawn Revisited [Beta 02] [Pics] [1/25/08] [PC]

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    #46
    Originally posted by IzaFly View Post
    I still have 2k4 installed. No need for pics. But thx. I've been comparing 2k4 with the new as much as possible. It's hard trying to balance things the way they were with the new mechanics of..well..everything.

    Coming across issues like:
    1) UT3 Tank can climb steeper hills
    2) UT3 Characters do not like the slightest drop in elevation (hence why you can't simply walk on the platforms as easily as 2k4)
    3) Raptor behaves different.
    4) Manta doesn't jump as high

    And who knows what else.

    I'll be address the distance issues. Oh, the height is about right. I just decided to use really tall trees. I like trees.

    So let me know when you find that deemer.
    Okay that is cool ... glad to see that you are so dedicated to getting this right ... makes me feel really good about how this level will eventually turn out and so I won't worry so much about giving input. But really you think the height is correct? Okay ... I'll just have to trust you on that. BTW seems yet another person was unaware of the redeemer on Dawn. Get that Keg O health back in place please.

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      #47
      Sanchez, go find the deemer.

      The height...was a pain in the butt. When I first imported it, it was WAAAY off. It looked like the Grand Canyon. After some tweaking, it was normal. But then realized it was too short and raised it again. I've had several ONS veterans tell me this height is pretty correct.

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        #48
        Originally posted by IzaFly View Post
        I still have 2k4 installed. No need for pics. But thx. I've been comparing 2k4 with the new as much as possible. It's hard trying to balance things the way they were with the new mechanics of..well..everything.

        Coming across issues like:

        2) UT3 Characters do not like the slightest drop in elevation (hence why you can't simply walk on the platforms as easily as 2k4)
        Don't forget that those raised platforms have little mini ramps. Take a quick look. Those can be used instead of a short jump. Like I said there is actually no uniformity in Dawn except for the little miniramps since they are built into the platform mesh structure.

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          #49
          FOUND IT!!! Cool little spot man ... I can see plenty of folks missing this one ... especially if they don't like how the mesh defies the laws of physics and they may steer clear of it to stay immersed in the reality of the game. I still say with you going for such a true remake you should add the superhealth but I can live with whatever decision you make. Good one though ... it would have never occurred to me.

          Edit: I went back and found it on the original ONS-Dawn ... actually yours is easier to find ... now if you moved it to how they have it in ONS-Dawn that would be hardcore ... maybe you could do that actually unless it just won't fit. Man I never knew about that in all these years LOL ... that is crazy. Even the official guide for UT2K4 doesn't have it listed.

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            #50
            Nice work!
            Now take my ideas on it.
            I'm seasoned grafic designer as well as ut2004 player.

            I so expect pretty classic remakes with new-wave gameplay options and design. Though you try to keep any detailes as original (that wierd meshes of the base and nodes, blue crystals and old mushrooms). IMHO its wrong way.

            Its much better if you will keep proven link setup and work with good looking texture tiling (esp. around the base), lights and perhaps try to get balance with new vehicles. Also please think about THE ORB - it makes more fun in the game, besides anybody can turn it off with NoOrb mutator.

            At first and for less complex developing I advice you to use default static meshes that suplied, so it fits to visual composition of the game much better on this moment.

            Its no needs to repeat UT2004 in UT3, just make a good remix or tribute as a musician.)

            Don't interupt for a unsignificant things!
            GL&HF!

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              #51
              Originally posted by AnubanUT2 View Post
              Well I just spent some considerable time with them both back to back and here are my suggestions for a true classic remake (although I really think you should have the option for people to play this like Warfare ... this is UT3 and there is a No orb mutator so imo it would be nice to open up this great level for everyone UT2K4 gamers and those new to UT altogether who like the play of UT3):
              there actually is a no-orb setting in the INI. It just does not appear to work at this time. if we can figure out how to get orb and no-orb options working in the same map we will have an orb version.

              Originally posted by AnubanUT2 View Post
              - First off there was no real uniformity about the platforms in the original Dawn. Some you could just walk over some you had to either jump or use the little mini ramps that are on each platform (power node or vehicle and remember some of the platforms are more sunk into the ground than others on the original). So really if you want to be more true to the original then you need to mix it up some and also add those little mini ramps so people can just run straight up them .. and make sure you haven't missed any platforms ... I believe one or two vehicles were not on platforms.
              The 2k4 dawn used giant gears for vehicle platforms vs the rounded disks we use. The gears have tappered edges and that helped ease the character over the larger transitions on most platforms (some, like base manta where still a jump). Additionally, in 2k4 dodge jump was the fastest way to move on foot and so you ended up dodge jumping just about everywhere and consiquently rarely noticed the transition issues. We are taking a serious look at the platform height issue and the terrain roughness issue (they are closely tied) and will resolve this so walk onto the platforms.

              Originally posted by AnubanUT2 View Post
              - The Inner bases do need more detailed work and most importantly you should consider losing the terrain you have for the ground in the interior of the bases as they are only concrete and dirt (in the original) and not green/grassy at all. Also the entrances/exits to the bases need a greater amount of detail ... the original had a good deal of detail on them. And when you get out of the bases instead of just two lights at the mouth of the open middle area there should be structures that the lights are attached to ... again check out the original.
              True the beta two structures (bases and wall things at the entrances of the bowl near the bases, are already a lot different and more details then what you see in beta 1. I have been working on them for quite a number of hours the last two days.

              Originally posted by AnubanUT2 View Post
              - I feel the size is pretty much dead on ... I walked around and the times were almost exact for reaching the bases just by walking. Good job on the scaling on size ... I don't feel these things need much if any work at all.
              We did a lot of the same things for comparing the sizes of the two version of the maps. We are still tweaking it to get that right balance of faithful replication vs. UT3 feel. It is not perfect yet, but it is improving.

              Originally posted by AnubanUT2 View Post
              BTW I get really good fps (running everything at max with 4xAA) on this map so good job on the optimization so far. That is extremely important to me because I should never have to turn down anything but maybe the AA on any UT3 level (so far all the retail levels have run welll ... unless we are talking about the ones with the bug in them that causes freezing for many of us ... mainly Torlan and Gateway).
              Thanks. this was another goal of the project. We have done a lot of work to optimized the map. I have and outdated gaming machine so it is easy for us to performance test it to death and find all the issues that come up with settings turned down (the trees do strange things, some vanish entirely and just leave a blocking volume). Where most UT3 maps are a slide show me (average 20-30 fps with video turned way down) on dawn i get about 45fps.

              Comment


                #52
                Yes yes yes, great ONS map, keep them comming! Stock UT3 warfare maps are small, tight, stuffy, so every "UT2004-style" map brings joy to my heart

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                  #53
                  Originally posted by paaawau View Post
                  Yes yes yes, great ONS map, keep them comming! Stock UT3 warfare maps are small, tight, stuffy, so every "UT2004-style" map brings joy to my heart
                  QFT. And btw I am no longer having any freezing issues with my 8800GT on Vista when playing on Torlan and Dm-Gateway levels. go here for the answer to all your prayers if you have a system that matches my config somewhat. Vista and the 8800GT:

                  http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/sho...d.php?t=595035

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Wow Dead that all sounds really great, thanks for the info ... I really am glad you are taking this project so seriously ... it lets me know that this level will be AAA quality. Cool.

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                      #55
                      BTW, for those wondeing about the lack of sky....

                      There IS a sky. You simply can't see it.

                      Tell me....how much sky do you see in this foggy morning?
                      [shot]http://www.tameraalexander.com/Photo/colorado/Winter%20Foggy%20Morning%20rs.jpg[/shot]

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                        #56
                        I see sky! Its just hiding behind all that fog...just turn your settings down and it fixes good n proper

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                          #57
                          Yes but ONS-Dawn was not all that foggy and it had a sky you could see ... moving clouds and all. And a really nice sun (since it is dawn I take it) so I would think that you would stick with that and use HDR (or is that effect automatically used) for when people look at the sun in this version.

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                            #58
                            But 2k4 Dawn didn't have realistic fog.

                            Remember that one important fact. Fog now acts REAL.

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by IzaFly View Post
                              But 2k4 Dawn didn't have realistic fog.

                              Remember that one important fact. Fog now acts REAL.
                              Excellent point .. but still do you think people will enjoy playing in the fog with no "dawn" as it were that breaks through the clouds? Okay I said I will trust you with this so I'll just have to see how it works when things are pretty much down to the last couple of Betas (when you get a RC1 ) ... have you played with how it will look though ... you know one version with the sun and another with the heavy realistic fog and play test it to see which actually works best in game?

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                                #60
                                I spent days tweaking the fog.

                                Here are my thoughts:
                                2k4 fog did not allow you to see directly across the map. This can be a good thing as being able to see across it would change the map play and strategies. The Raptor has a maximum height ceiling set. Thing about the fog is that if you go TOO high above the fog, you see the edges of the fog at the distance.

                                I tweaked the fog so that you barely see the edge of the fog when reaching the maximum height in the Raptor. This prevents it from looking ugly and more realistic. Now, the higher you fly in the Raptor, the more sky you see. This is normal because the fog is clearing up. Currently, the sky is half black because it is dawn and it is still night on part of the sky. But if you take the Raptor, and fly straight up, you will see the detail the sky has.

                                This is the EXACT same effect currently on the sky dome. Except we have fog to deal with and so you really don't see it on foot.
                                [shot]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/33/54738529_2f0ce389f5.jpg[/shot]

                                BTW, I have fixed the platform problem. Being that some have shown a slight deficiency in pushing the jump button I have come up with a solution.

                                I did not want to lose the look of the platforms by sinking them into the ground. So I created a hexagonal blocking volume with a flat top and placed it underneath one of the platforms as a test. The end result is, IMHO, rather respectable.

                                [shot]http://www.itsflybye.com/public/images/games/UT3/Dawnv2/Dawn46.jpg[/shot]

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