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    #31
    Originally posted by Yojimbo_X View Post
    ...My point is that all screens should have the same Vertical FOV, thereby the aspect ration is what changes between screens, so the Horizontal FOV compensates for this....
    My point is that FOV should be chosen so that there is a good compromise between peripheral vision and distortion. A normal sized monitor at normal viewing distance might take up 30 degrees from your point of view. Obviously that's too small, so commonly a 90 degree FOV is used. Anything higher than that starts to look odd, regardless of the aspect ratio of the monitor. In order for it to not look distorted, you need a larger monitor, or for the monitor to be closer (as the monitor becomes very large it also needs to be curved).


    Originally posted by Yojimbo_X View Post
    ...Widescreens are becoming more and more common. They have a aspect ratio which is suited to display a higher Horizontal FOV.
    People like to have a wider FOV with a widescreen monitor because they don't buy a widescreen to replace their 4:3 monitor, they buy a larger monitor to replace their smaller monitor, and the new one just happens to be a widescreen.

    There really isn't any other particular reason why widescreen monitors should be considered normal monitors with extra bits at the sides instead of normal monitors with the top and bottom cut off. You can bet that the latter is how 4:3 monitors would have been marketed if widescreen had been the initial standard.



    Originally posted by capable heart View Post
    ...Human eyes are side-by-side. This is why widescreen 16x9 screens need to show more on the sides than 4x3 screens. There are physical anatomy reasons why a wider FOV is correct in these situations...
    Humans have a FOV of about 180 degrees horizontal and 120 degrees vertical. This just happens to be about 4:3, not like a widescreen monitor, but that isn't really relevant unless you want to fill the entire field of view with a huge hemispherical monitor.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Mr Evil View Post
      Humans have a FOV of about 180 degrees horizontal and 120 degrees vertical. This just happens to be about 4:3, not like a widescreen monitor, but that isn't really relevant unless you want to fill the entire field of view with a huge hemispherical monitor.
      Like a POD?
      [shot]http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/rahkogen/japan/IMG_0528Large.jpg[/shot]
      These things are awesome, they're nothing more than a projector with a super wide lens on a concave screen, I've been tempted to make one at home.
      But according to Yojimbo_X here, its only like a 4:3 projector so it must not need more than 90 degrees, its not a widescreen.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Mr Evil View Post
        My point is that FOV should be chosen so that there is a good compromise between peripheral vision and distortion. A normal sized monitor at normal viewing distance might take up 30 degrees from your point of view. Obviously that's too small, so commonly a 90 degree FOV is used. Anything higher than that starts to look odd, regardless of the aspect ratio of the monitor. In order for it to not look distorted, you need a larger monitor, or for the monitor to be closer (as the monitor becomes very large it also needs to be curved).

        People like to have a wider FOV with a widescreen monitor because they don't buy a widescreen to replace their 4:3 monitor, they buy a larger monitor to replace their smaller monitor, and the new one just happens to be a widescreen.

        There really isn't any other particular reason why widescreen monitors should be considered normal monitors with extra bits at the sides instead of normal monitors with the top and bottom cut off. You can bet that the latter is how 4:3 monitors would have been marketed if widescreen had been the initial standard.

        Originally posted by capable heart View Post
        Human eyes are side-by-side. This is why widescreen 16x9 screens need to show more on the sides than 4x3 screens. There are physical anatomy reasons why a wider FOV is correct in these situations.
        Humans have a FOV of about 180 degrees horizontal and 120 degrees vertical. This just happens to be about 4:3, not like a widescreen monitor, but that isn't really relevant unless you want to fill the entire field of view with a huge hemispherical monitor.
        I understand what you say with the part about how if a screen is big enough, then it needs a bigger FOV regardless of aspect ratio, balancing that with the distortion. But the vertical size has not gotten bigger on the new computer monitors, vertical is effectively the same and only the sides are bigger.

        My reasoning is that, with people sitting at desks, etc. the effective viewing distance and vertical screen size of even the widescreen computer monitors hasn't really changed. The only thing that's changed in a non-negligible way is the width. And IMHO, if all other factors are equal, and only difference is wider, then usually that could translate to the FOV?

        Like you said, the closer you sit to a monitor, the wider the FOV view can get without looking too distorted. My theory is that since people sit really close to computer screens (2-3 feet maybe?) unlike TVs across the room, I think that widescreen FOV in an FPS like UT3 could get away with being a little wider than it currently is.

        (Also, I didn't say human vision was 16x9. Using the 180x120, it is 3x2 which is 1.5:1. 4x3 is 1.33:1, Widscreen is either 16x10 (1.6:1) or 16x9 (1.78:1). So even that number is closer to the widescreen shape, not the 4x3 ones, mathematically speaking. Well, actually about half way, but I guess it would only really matter in the big hemi-spherical projector monitor things.)

        Comment


          #34
          Okay, i can understand why people think that smaller monitors should have less FOV. But 9" screened laptops aren't exactly the norm for gamers.
          (getting one that makes UT3 play pretty, won't be cheap).

          Also that pod. It's really a case where it should have both a larger horizontal FOV,and a larger vertical FOV. As it stands UT3 would probably give it a 90 FOV.

          My arguments were in a veryvery general average widescreen gamermanner. The people who have reasonable pcs, and widescreen monitors on their desks. This situation a wider is the logical solution.



          Also while we are here, the argument for cheating is very very, well weak. Widescreens are the biggest jump for cheating over 4:3s. My surround screens don't really offer a signifacant advantage over a widescreen. This is because they way 3d games render the image. You start to get fisheye effects halfway across thesurround monitors. So the further you go the less the increase in actual information your getting. However this is effect is brilliant for immersion factors.

          I wish i could sit some of you down and let you play on my pc. It's amazing playing games like left4dead with surround sound, and having stuff appear in your peripheral vision.

          Also it's hard for me to 'cheat' with these extra monitors. You can't actually observe the whole world at the same time. So i have to be looking around alot.

          Ideally the horizontal and vertical FOV's should be unlocked. Allowing people to scale it to their liking. Failing that the horizontal FOv should be unlocked.
          On the terms of the pod. If i made a massive circular room with a set of projectors surround me for 360 degrees. Does that mean i should have a 90 degree horizontal fov?. Unreal would give you a lil slit of vision vertically...

          At the moment, my theory is cheating. So on that grounds, EPICs programmers probably all use 4:3 monitors (the main ones concerned about the 'cheating'). (of course this argument is well, odd as 4:3 monitors have more view than widescreens, so they are now cheating, advantaged). EPIC, buy your programmers some widescreen monitors. Come on, you make enough money.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Yojimbo_X View Post
            [shot]http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9894/dumbviewnl0.jpg[/shot]

            Just installed UT3 then, I think i need to patch it to get a 100 FOV don't I?. That's whatever the vanilla FOV is. Bloody awful.
            Oh my gosh. Epic, you are retarded. Any standard programmer knows how this is supposed to work. Wow.

            Having a widescreen DOES entitle you to having a higher FOV, Roadkill does not know what he is talking about. Anyone else that agrees with him obviously hasn't played very many games.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by RoadKillGrill View Post
              Why not buy 6 more monitors and stop complaining about the FOV, because when you have nine monitors you automatically need a lower FOV than you have with your 3 monitor setup.


              [shot]http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i103/rahkogen/Photos/CIMG4861.jpg[/shot]
              So to make it very clear, physical size has nothing to do with FOV...
              If I set my projector to crop to 16:9 I'm entitled to a larger FOV purely on the fact that I changed the aspect ratio to a "widescreen"? Its pointless to claim you should see more with a widescreen. Games =! movies.

              Also use shot tags when you post large images, its messes up the boards.
              No it's not, you're just trolling. Get a job if you can't afford a widescreen, sheesh. But don't make us suffer for it.
              Yojimbo, I don't know why, but for some reason there is a minority (as in, precisely 2 at the moment-- perhaps more) of 1% that don't want the majority to enjoy what is rightfully theirs (we paid for it after all). Why they can't be bothered to just get a screen themselves is beyond me. Personally, I think they're just trolling. Anyone with a brain can see that Epic's implementation is poor. That Evil and Roadkill are insisting that _nearly every other FPS game in the market_ having FOV adjustable up to and beyond 130deg, is for no good reason, and that we are wrong, is just plain laughable.

              Lets keep this on the front page; hopefully Epic will do something about it for Patch 2.0 coming out.

              Comment


                #37

                THE MORE FOV THE MORE YOU SEE

                SOME HIGH FOV's EVEN BEAT RADAR HACK!


                First of all sorry guys for not reading everything that is posted here.

                I know you guys are not idiots, but let me just point something out (again), you playing with a greater field of view is not fair towards the majority of the players.

                If you not want to be a fair player i suggest you load up some radar hacks and aimbots along with those FOV mutators.

                Seriously... if you plan to play online... try to go with the flow (i hate that i have to say this, yes sorry man).

                BUT... there is a cool thing... the other day i ran into this clan who all play triple screen. They have their own server with the mutator in it... if you are a 4:3 guy you are banned instantly (who wants to play a blind guy anyways).

                I suggest you ask epic once more to make it possible for you to see more in a correct way on your screen. And in the process make a whole truckload of kids insane by letting them fov130 on 4:3... they preform quite well but after a few weeks they develop spastic effects and their eyes grow egg-like.

                Come on man... you know this game doesnt run on a gameboy... you know all online gamers have to, somewhat, see the same thing. So the gameplay is FAIR.

                Yes sorry... if i had 3 screens... i would want to experience it too with UT3 and its engine.

                Cheers mate,
                Good luck.



                P.s. But if i find out in one month i playing against a truckload of idiots playing fov130 on 4:3 i will $%#$@%$@#%@#$5 you! :-)

                Remember: EPIC didnt limit to 100 because of YOU... but because of 4:3 players who tend to mess up the game so much that NOBODY will take it seriously anymore! (you know how children are)

                Comment


                  #38
                  Remember: EPIC didnt limit to 100 because of YOU... but because of 4:3 players who tend to mess up the game so much that NOBODY will take it seriously anymore! (you know how children are)
                  Heh sounds like your talking about EPIC's programmers (children). This FOV limit has made UT3 a joke. As a game it didn't offer all that much more. Infact yet again they took out Assault!. Now they took out FOV aswell.
                  Take features out and make us buy a new game. UT3 is almost a pratical joke now. Hehe sometimes gamers i know joke about it by using "EPIC FAIL", meaning it dissapointed about as much as UT3 did.

                  (i exagerate about how bad the game is), but my box says "Unsurpassed, Unprecedented, Unrivaled", which trys to sell this game a little to hard.

                  THE MORE FOV THE MORE YOU SEE

                  SOME HIGH FOV's EVEN BEAT RADAR HACK!
                  Exactly, so in my view. 4:3 Monitor players have a bloody unfair advantage over me. They don't have to look through a tiny slit. They should all be banned from playing online.

                  That argument goes both ways, and is silly. You can't say " oh noes wide/surround screens will have an advantage" and then give them a massive f****ing disadvantage because of it.

                  Seriously, the way UT3 renders gives me a MUCH LARGER disadvantage than the advantage i would have over a 4:3 by using my wide aspect ratio.

                  I suggest you ask epic once more to make it possible for you to see more in a correct way on your screen. And in the process make a whole truckload of kids insane by letting them fov130 on 4:3... they preform quite well but after a few weeks they develop spastic effects and their eyes grow egg-like.
                  People who choose incorrect aspect ratios and suffer from it are not my problem. I can't stop them chosing the wrong aspect ratio as much as i can not stop them from bashing their heads into the monitor. EPIC doesn't enforce a padded buffer between idiots and a screen, so they shouldn't limit the **** FOV.

                  Come on man... you know this game doesnt run on a gameboy... you know all online gamers have to, somewhat, see the same thing. So the gameplay is FAIR.
                  In part i can see where you are trying to come from here, but the problem is. EVERY OTHER DEVELOPER IN THE WORLD SEEMS TO GET WIDECREEN. This problem is isolated mainly to older games, or dumbass design desicions.

                  The main engine i would think competes with UT3, is probably Source?. It's very popular and source games seem to have lots of servers etc.

                  CounterStrike:Source (proper wide screen support)
                  Garrys Mod (proper wide screen support)
                  Team Fortress 2 (proper wide screen support)
                  Left 4 Dead (proper wide screen support)
                  Portal (proper wide screen support)

                  Some other games i see on my desktop.

                  Halo 1( proper-ish wide screen support, large FOV online, HUD scales odd).
                  The Witcher (proper wide screen support).

                  Then we get to

                  UT3 (dumbass widescreen support).

                  So EPIC are going against the norm. Hell even the name widescreen implies the view is wider than a normal screen.

                  There's really 3 options here.

                  1) Put in proper widescreen support (selectable FOV, without a small limit)

                  or

                  2) Convince everyone in the world that 'widescreen' should be renamed to 'slit-screen', 'small-screen', 'chop-screen' or some derivation of it.

                  or

                  3) Remain a massive joke to most gamers with high end PCs. Making any chance of a UT4 selling welll rather low.


                  I've programmed some little indie-games, and mods before. You can have the most balanced perfect engine out there, but if you design your interface half-***** everyone will hate it. This FOV is not what the public wants, yet we are forced to endure it.

                  Hell on the point of me programming stuff. I actually bought UT3 for the mods, and at the beginning i was learning UScript and cooking little mutators. After awhile i got bored of it. Why would i create stuff for a game which i can't play online, even though i paid for it.

                  Also the way all 3D is rendered, a widescreen doesn't actually give you as much extra stuff as you'd think.

                  Because it's a field of view, the stuff rendered on screen is curved. This means the amount of extra information per fov increment decreases.
                  However if you do the reverse, and crop **** out. You go the other way, each vertical fov you crop, increases the amount of information lost!.

                  When you've over halved my vertical FOV, you've cropped a hellova lot of info from my game.

                  Also how am i meant to show of UT3 to people? when it looks like *** on my system. I spent a fair amount of money to build something unique and different. At lans etc, people take a interest in my setup, some of em even see the games displayed this way and then buy them!. (Full detail, Highest AA over 3 screens looks fantastic).

                  Remember: EPIC didnt limit to 100 because of YOU... but because of 4:3 players who tend to mess up the game so much that NOBODY will take it seriously anymore! (you know how children are)
                  Nope, they limited it either because they 1) think it's funny to screw their customers 2) a pure mistake that's being rectified as we speak or 3) Some idiot who works there and owns a 4:3 monitor, unable to let go, with way to much influence over the game.

                  I looked through the SGU, a app that automatically configures games to work on my surround screens. Look what game is fully supported!!! UT2004, UT2003, Unreal 2. Looking at the UT2004 file, it modifies the FOV to 138 degrees....

                  Wait what 138 degrees? Yes that's bloody right. A game EPIC made in years ago, that was SOOO bloody successful it's rediculous, supported 138 degree FOV. I remember borrowing that game from a friend years ago, back when i played it never once did i hear of idiots on 4:3s ruining the game by having 130 degree FOVs, nor did i bloody care what other people saw.

                  And here's the thing, I DON'T CARE what other people see online. I just want to be able to play it myself. If some one wants to make a massive room with screens everywhere that render a whole ****ing sphere of the world around him to view. That's his choice. He spent the money on it. I'll play him online and not ***** about it if he owns me.

                  If your complaining about people having wider vertical FOVs than you, and beating you. There's a high chance your just not good at the **** game, and anyway, it's only a game. Don't be soo bloody competitive that you think a FOV is what made you lose instead of win.

                  My FOV problem doesn't stem from getting beaten, but from the fact that the game looks so TERRIBLE that you can't play it.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Love&Pride:
                    If you think a higher FOV gives you an advantage, why don't you use it yourself? The fact is, a high FOV makes aiming more difficult because everything on the screen is smaller, so it's a tradeoff.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Just let us set it higher then 100 so we can enjoy our game. I paid $50 bucks for this game when it came out. All I ask for is the same video options that were in UT2004.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by tqz View Post
                        Love&Pride:
                        If you think a higher FOV gives you an advantage, why don't you use it yourself? The fact is, a high FOV makes aiming more difficult because everything on the screen is smaller, so it's a tradeoff.
                        Hmmm i have to be honest... i did not try it myself with this game. Years ago i did similair thing stopped it as lack of support.

                        I didnt realize/know that aiming is less... i just think that one would see more, which i see as, indeed, not a huge advancement but still.

                        @ Yojimbo_X
                        Please let me press to you that, as i said, if i would spend money on all this i will expect a quality developer like EPIC to support it at LEAST to some extent.

                        But to be honest... i already not like the fact that on the pc multiplayer games are hardly ever truely fair/balanced. Hardware and the (game) settings almost always give one player more speed whislt the other has more detail. Or even worse some have their game set in such a way they'd never be able to really enjoy and own.

                        Im not saying i have a solution for this all... but (sorry) i do support developers who at least TRY to make it more fair.

                        /me shuts up now since i havent tried proper 3 screen gameplay... indeed it might actually make it more harder then easer. Hope that u guys do somehow someday are able to experiance UT3 in its full glory using all your hardware... oh man i gonna be ****** if i meet any of u then and not letting me sneak hammer u from the side as u saw me comming!

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Funny development here.

                          Far Cry 2 1.2 patch is out. I got this game for free with my graphics card. (i had already completed half of it on the ps3).

                          Ran this patch, it fully supports the FOV for my triple head. Not only that, they put enough thought and planning in it to make the menus render properly. Eg menus only appear on center monitor, even though game runs over 3. This is absolutely fantastic from them, and there wasn't even as big a push for it as in UT3.

                          If there were only people playing the game online, i would play it online.

                          So, other companies not only give us the FOV we want, but put in the extra effort of making menus appear properly (UT3 would stretch them).

                          EPIC_reputation--;

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