Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Xyx's lengthy vehicle feedback

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Xyx's lengthy vehicle feedback

    Opinions formed after a weekend of heavy playing. All Instant Action, mostly vCTF-Suspense, at varying bot skill levels. I used the console commands to summon the "other" vehicles.


    General Observations

    The following observations apply to all vehicles in general.

    Aesthetics
    Excellent models and textures! The Axon vehicles look a little tougher and more functional than last time. The Necris vehicles have stunning visual flair.

    The locational damage system is brilliant. It's awesome to see my vehicle "unwrinkle" when I link-heal it.

    The explosions seem rather flimsy and un-spectacular. In most instances of vehicles or (especially) projectiles blowing up... if you blink you missed it. I know this slightly helps performance, but come on! Explosions are cool!

    Usability
    This game feels great, partly because it has good physics. Vehicles feel solid, like they have mass, and practical suspension. Not like the floaty UT2004 vehicles. I have yet to experience odd or unintuitive behavior.

    Camera positioning is horrible, especially in ground vehicles. I'm on 16:10 widescreen and I can't even see the backs of the ground vehicles, let alone their wheels. I miss being able to zoom out using the mouse wheel.

    I really miss not being able to carry the flag in ground vehicles. They seemed made for that purpose in UT2004, especially the wheeled ones. I don't see what we gained by the removal of this great feature. The best UT2004 vCTF maps had neutral, unlocked vehicles near the flag and in midfield especially to assist retreating flag carriers. This shortcoming relegates vehicles to combat only and places me in a weird conundrum whenever I reach the enemy flag in a vehicle. Do I leave my vehicle to be taken by the enemy? Not good; they'll use it to hunt me down. Or do I ignore the flag and keep fighting until my vehicle is almost destroyed and then jump out? But then whoever shot my ride will be shooting me. Or do I just do the sensible but boring thing and distract my enemies and wait for a teammate to grab the flag? Where's the glory in that? That's not what CTF is about, with or without vehicles.

    Balance
    I am, on the whole, not charmed, not by the balance between vehicles and infantry nor by the balance between vehicles themselves. This is where I see some serious room for improvement.

    Vehicle power should be relative to size. If it looks powerful, it should be powerful. The reverse certainly also applies; small, lightweight vehicles have no business being powerful. I feel the game seriously underestimates the power of mobility. The guiding principle behind the game's vehicle balance appears to be that vehicles should have around 500 health. Really fast and maneuverable vehicles get half that, slow and cumbersome vehicles get up to double that. The problem here is that a really maneuverable vehicle hardly gets hit, so the tradeoff (sacrificing vulnerability for speed) is missing. As a result, flying vehicles are generally uber, as was evidenced by the Manta and Cicada in UT2004.

    There's no reason why flying vehicles should be powerful. This problem can still be avoided easily without ruining gameplay. In fact, gameplay would be greatly improved. Nobody in their right mind would use a weak tank (you might as well go on foot), but a weak aircraft would still be used because it's fast. It will get you to the action, to that unguarded node, into the enemy base, despite any shortcomings it may have.

    ___

    And now, in alphabetical order...


    Cicada

    Aesthetics
    The old one looked better. It had sleek curves and actually hinted at its namesake. This new model is just a collection of metal bars and plates thrown together to vaguely resemble its predecessor.

    The belly turret is still the same old uninspired "layzur" thing, though the altfire flares and cool folding animation save it from being entirely unremarkable.

    Usability
    Handling is much-improved but that lost the Cicada some of its character. The old Cicada took a lot of flak for the way it handled, but I think that was due in part to its instability and perceived lack of mass. I certainly came to appreciate its slow sideways but excellent vertical movement. This new Cicada feels like just another Raptor clone.

    I vaguely remembered the missiles locking onto targeted stuff now, but they don't. It would've been fun to send a bunch of missiles after some hapless target (that could still avoid them if it were careful).

    The craft's nose often gets in the way of the crosshair and obscures downward view in general. That's pretty awkward for an air-to-ground vehicle.

    Balance
    Feels like its predecessor's over-the-top damage dealing abilities have been brought back into perspective. Fairly balanced now.


    Darkwalker

    Aesthetics
    Wicked! I can't properly admire the thing because I can only see the top while driving, but this sure is one of the defining vehicles for the game.

    When I first saw the Darkwalker I assumed that it worked like a hover vehicle and that the long, thin legs were just for show. I still think that was a correct assumption, but the legs are a lot less flimsy than I feared. They look bad-*** and like they could actually pull the vehicle along. The only thing that's missing to make the illusion truly complete is a bit of shaking and rocking with the footsteps.

    Slow moving beams of death are always a crowd pleaser. I'm glad they're nothing like the boring "layzurs" on many of the other vehicles.

    Now the passenger turret... hello there, boring "layzurs". These so do not fit this otherwise fascinating vehicle.

    Usability
    Cool beams! Fun to use. (not really that fun to face, at least not with the bots using them... I swear they can see through walls)

    I read the big lights were added so you can more easily see where it's aiming. The lights aren't that obvious to me, though.

    Moving around is

    I couldn't get the altfire to work reliably. Only seems to work in some games.

    Balance
    Pretty powerful, appropriate for its size. I'd certainly pick this thing over the Goliath any day.


    Goliath

    Aesthetics
    The old Goliath was a box on treads, this Goliath is a slightly more fleshed out box on treads. I'd expect more from a futuristic tank (especially considering a certain other scifi shooter game having to do with ring shaped worlds got it right).

    Altfire is still the same dumb zooming. I thought we were going to get a ballistic antipersonnel round?

    Usability
    It's hard to aim the shells at distant targets, especially on flat terrain (like the vCTF-Suspense bridge). It's hard to see where the shells will land, it's hard to see where the shells do land and it's hard to see the shells coming. The old Goliath, simple as it was, did not have this problem as much.

    Balance
    Old Goliath rocked, new Goliath sucks. This thing gets pwnd by just about anything but the other ground vehicles. The new tank shell is laughable. You have to hit extremely close to the mark to slow down infantry. Its only virtue is decent health, but it's an easy target and what health it has depletes super-rapidly if you cannot make life hard for your attackers.

    Serious balance problem here. The Goliath is supposed to be the terror of the battlefield, the vehicle everyone fears, not just another free frag for any fool with a Link Gun. Come on, Epic, it's a tank!


    Fury

    Aesthetics
    Wow, just wow! The tentacles, the thingy folding out of the bottom... spectacular!

    Could've used a bit more nonstandard flight mechanism. Its seriously alien looks notwithstanding it handles like a helicopter, just like the Raptor and the Cicada. I was hoping for something more along the lines of a harrier jet, with clumsy hovering but graceful flight.

    Usability
    Wasn't this supposed to be the air superiority fighter? It doesn't seem that made for dogfighting. I had a Fury versus Fury dogfight, which was all about getting the first hit. I also had a Fury versus Raptor dogfight. That just had me eating Raptor missiles. I don't really see how this is supposed to work.

    The beams "sticking" to the target is nice. That really helps the thing along.

    Balance
    Seems pretty balanced to me. The beams are pretty nasty, but it has to expose itself and go in low to attack ground targets.

    I'd pick the Raptor over this any day of the week, even for air superiority (which is kinda odd, considering the Fury's role), but I think that has more to do with the Raptor than the Fury.

    Hellbender

    Aesthetics
    A cross between the old pickup and the Bulldog, much better! It looks mean and cool.

    The rear turret is just a dumb "layzur" now. Not very imaginative. The twinbeam wasn't a whole lot above that but at least it had a nonstandard mechanic.

    Usability
    What's with the crazy cornering? Tight cornering is fine, but not at the slightest touch of the button.

    Merging the passenger and driver seats is good. Cuts back on the silly constant seat switching.

    Closing off the cab is also good. Now it can take a few hits before the crew is toast.

    Balance
    Underpowered. Hearing "Hellbender, midfield" doesn't have the slightest psychological impact on me. Spam link plasma down the road for a free frag. Shame, because this vehicle could shine in many roles without ever becoming uber.

    The skymines have lost their old awesomeness. No longer can I threaten large areas or obliterate nearby infantry. Too slow, too small, not enough damage. You need to practically pull up to something to get in a good hit. At any other range, the target can easily step aside.

    It's nice to see the altfire shock beam brought up to the level of a normal shock beam. Now you can actually use it as a weapon, in a pinch. The old beam did such pitiful damage that it was useless for anything but detonating skymines.

    The rear turret is underwhelming and uninviting. Why trade my freedom and accuracy for a wobbly, glorified shock beam?


    Hellfire SPMA

    Aesthetics
    Half-track, nice! Really slow, but that fits its appearance. Cool stabilizers.

    I bet the name was changed specifically because "SPMA, midfield!" didn't sound too cool.

    Usability
    Might be the vCTF-Suspense layout, but I can't put this thing to good use. It has no angle, no reach and no cover. The only serviceable spot in vCTF-Suspense seems to be right behind the flag.

    I'd rather have kept the use of the cannon for the driver... something about having a big gun and wanting to use it. The SPMA is so slow now anyway that it doesn't really matter whether you move or not while operating the skymine turret.

    The "can't look below the horizon" issue is gone, as it should have been in the past.

    Deployment by pressing Space is fine, though unnecessary. I understand something had to change (what with all the "how do i use teh spma!!1oneone" threads), but it could have deployed on Altfire if the driver had not been given control of the skymine turret.

    The mouse aiming is great! Very sleek and intuitive.

    The cannon has very poor range. The immobile nature of a deployed SPMA makes it best used from a safe spot, but it doesn't have the range for that. I have to aim up real high just to get the camera in a useful position (which contrasts sharply with the Flak altfire trajectory).

    Balance
    As it is now, in vCTF-Suspense, the presence of the SPMA seems to hardly affect the game at all. It might as well not have been there.

    The lack of range is the SPMA's primary shortcoming. It is built for range, yet does not have it. Lack of range means it has to pull up near whatever it wishes to bombard. This makes disposing of an enemy SPMA an afterthought (spam Link plasma for a free frag) rather than forcing you to seek it out and fight your way to it.

    See the Hellbender for the skymine issues.


    Hoverboard (yup, it's a vehicle too)

    Aesthetics
    I've kept an open mind for the past year, expecting it to work, but now am torn between goofy and gimmicky. It doesn't suit the game.

    Getting into the action faster is great, but I don't see why I would need a hoverboard for that. The problem, usually, is that the action is too far away. The obvious solution would then be to keep the action closer to the spawn points.

    Jetpacks would have been a better alternative, but whatever. Epic obviously has their mind set on this (not to mention their money), so I won't delve into the alternatives.

    Usability
    The thing feels clumsy because it won't strafe and has slightly unpredictable cornering abilities. I have to be very careful when hovering into doorways or onto ledges. If I hit the wall I might as well hop off and reposition on foot before hopping back on.

    It's useless for carrying the flag. Any fool with an Enforcer or (especially) Stinger will mow you down and finish you off before you get back up. Doesn't matter whether you tow behind a vehicle or not. In fact, I'd rather have the vehicle push me. At least that way it shields me from enemy fire.

    And would it kill the game to allow people to link up to other hoverboards?

    Balance
    The worst thing about the hoverboard is that it's so quick to get on and off. I find myself hoverboarding even the tiniest distance from my spawn point to the weapon locker, and from the weapon locker to the nearest vehicle. I do this because it gets me to the action 0.2 seconds sooner, and that matters in this game. That means I have to do it. I must have that 0.2 seconds, or I wouldn't be playing to the best of my ability. This makes the hoverboard a curse instead of a blessing. It steals focus from what the game is about. I want to blow up ****, not continually be jumping on and off a hoverboard.


    Manta

    Aesthetics
    Still shares the cookie cutter plasma guns with the Raptor. I had hoped for something more original this time.

    Still the same wonky jump sound, eh?

    Usability
    Pleasant and easy to use. A bit too easy, in fact.

    Good thing people can no longer stand on top of the spinning blades of death. That "feature" just didn't go with the looks. I'd have been fine with handles serving as passenger "seats" on the sides, but this is fine too.

    What's with roadkilling crouched infantry? Wasn't it supposed to not be able to do that anymore?

    Balance
    Uber! This thing has offense, defense and mobility. The plasma guns have insane fire rate and damage per second, and the craft is so agile that it's hard to hit even with hitscan. The Manta's role should be to get places, not going toe to toe with the bigger vehicles. It needs a serious reduction in both responsiveness and fire rate to keep its power level proportionate to its size.

    At this level Warfare will be Manta fest all over again, with Mantas everywhere. Just like Onslaught, with a Manta at nearly every node in nearly every map. I thought the old "7 Mantas" Torlan was the worse for it, and I am not exactly thrilled with the prospects of the (five?) new Manta infested Torlans.


    Nemesis

    Aesthetics
    Cool tentacle gliders and a very interesting crouch mode.

    Boring "layzur" weapon. I was hoping for something a little more innovative.

    Boring zoom altfire, feels like an afterthought. This makes it all the more nothing but a mobile Energy Turret. It could have been given something fun and different instead, something that would have allowed it to occasionally break free of its role. Like, say, a deployable wall, a couple of land mines or a medical supply.

    Usability
    Completely drunken handling in crouch mode. Since the guns are locked in place anyway, how about steering it with the mouse in this mode? That way I'd actually be able to hit something. Otherwise the guns might as well be switched off entirely.

    Except for a slightly better firing position, what's the point of the raised mode? Doesn't seem to do more damage. Faster fire rate? If so, hardly noticeable. That could use a cue or two.

    Turns a little bit too fast for my taste.

    The laser is all-or-nothing, near-misses don't count. If you have l33t aim you're going to rock with this thing, otherwise you're going to feel somewhat useless. Not a very enjoyable vehicle for the average gamer.

    Balance
    Fairly balanced.


    Paladin

    Aesthetics
    I liked the looks of the old one and I don't necessarily consider this one an improvement. The way the shield deploys is nice, though.

    The plasma ball looks seriously underwhelming. Looks like a colored glass orb instead of a big, nasty pulsing glob of plasma barely contained by an EM field.

    Usability
    The shield obstructs visibility. I can hardly see what's behind it. Seems to depend on graphics settings too. Once it was nearly white and completely opaque, another time it was pink and vaguely transparent.

    It got a much-needed little speed boost, but it's still super-slow in reverse. Is that really necessary? It doesn't really scrape along obstacles; it tends to get stuck. And then you have to reverse a little to get unstuck.

    Balance
    Still a very balanced vehicle. Slightly more powerful primary fire wouldn't hurt, though.


    Raptor

    Aesthetics
    The UT2004 Raptor was a sleek, stylish machine with a silhouette vaguely resembling its namesake. The UT3 Raptor is just another spacey flying machine lacking the aesthetic vision of its predecessor.

    I like how the wings fold.

    Usability
    Handles as expected, if slightly too easy.

    Slower reverse speed is good, consistent with its thrusters.

    Balance
    This thing is the rock, the paper and the scissors. It's basically the Manta with a few variations. It's only a lightweight flyer but it can take on the big vehicles with ease. And if you're on foot and one of these gets you in its sights... just plink away with your Stinger and hope one of your buddies AVRiLs it after you respawn. It'll need some serious adjustments or this game will yet again be dominated by flying vehicles. It was bad in UT2004, but it's a lot worse here.

    What's with the crazy fire rate on the missiles? Just hold down altfire to clear the map of enemy Raptors, Cicadas and Furies. Once you get the warning and see the missiles you're dead already.


    Scorpion

    Aesthetics
    No bola? The bola was cool, and even though it wasn't nearly as useful as it could have been, it was still unreal. The grenade launcher is a lot less interesting.

    The kamikaze attack does not result in the expected explosion. The thing just smashed itself to bits on a wall. Funny, but a bit of an anticlimax.

    Usability
    Way too aggressive cornering, like the Hellbender.

    The grenades seem remarkably easy to aim. Is there some hidden homing behavior?

    The kamikaze attack has the added benefit in vCTF of not leaving enemies a vehicle to carjack (a problem that I find otherwise very disrupting to vCTF gameplay, what with not being able to drive the flag back).

    Good handling and the blades being at the front (0.1 second less time to dodge) make it the roadkill menace it should have been in the past.

    Balance
    No longer the coffin on wheels! I'm glad it actually provides a little safety for the driver now. All in all very balanced and suitable for a variety of roles. A great improvement!

    #2
    Hey! The Hoverboard is cool, and incredibly useful. It just needs some tweaks.

    I guess you enjoy hiking twelve miles into combat when all the vehicles are gone... ?

    Comment


      #3
      This is a good informative feedback. The only thing i might have to say is hopefully the paladins shield will be easier to see through later even though we weren't really supposed to be playing with it in the demo.

      Comment


        #4
        Rhirid's lengthy reply

        And I agree 95% with Xyx

        Cicada - I don't think you ever could target- but you still can rack and store a volley on a target using alt- with the change that now you can release alt and fire primary - which gives horrendous firepower. The less exaggerated curve of the shots will mean more will hit, so I think it'll still be pretty devestating.

        Not having 1st person view and being unable to see what's under the crosshair I agree is horrendous.

        Darkwalker - agreed. I can't see much lights due to my awful PC.

        Goliath
        I'm not sure about usability. Playng vs a tank expert today, got 2 clean eagle-eyes on my approaching raptor (and I don't fly in straight lines.) With practice the accuracy is fine. Perhaps a little more pace on the shell +10% - no more, a little bit more splash again not a lot, but as I posted elsewhere more armour, certainly 1000-1200 - due to the raptor's increased firepower.

        Fury - I couldn't get altfire to work - dunno why.

        Helbender - agreed. Needs to be more sturdy now it's more jeep and less of a mini-monstertruck. I've had some success with the shock balls though. I think the high playercounts on a narrow map makes the hellbender tricky to judge.

        Hoverboards - I'm not quite so negative. I'm still learning how to corner comfortably and jump, and ducking helps. Agreed 100% that once you pack your board it should be at least 1s before you can whip it out again.

        Mantas- need more skill to pilot this time around. I think the manta vs infantry change is balanced. We need to have more experience of manta vs longbow to really know though.

        Nemesis- I've a feeling that some players with good aim will anhialate every raptor cicada and manta with this thing. Can't wait to try it out.

        Paladin- The faster manouverability of the shield, and the fact the shield swithches off if you hit hard objects makes it a more skilled vehichle to use. I like it. I hope you score points for absorbing dammage to promote it's use.

        Raptor I think now this is easily the most powerful vehichle in the game. It's ability to carry boarders, move quickly, be effective vs mantas with it's missiles and devestating vs tanks makes it a lot more powerful than in ut2004. I don't know yet if it's overpowerful.

        Spma- agree- a lot nicer interface. I also agree about range.

        Scorps
        -I've got loads of kamikaze kills now. If I had decent tank opposition, I'd have been shredded, but if you get the distance and line right, it's brilliant.

        Spma- agree- a lot nicer interface

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by FordPrefect View Post
          Hey! The Hoverboard is cool
          No, I think it's silly and kinda lame.

          "Hey, skateboards are cool, right? The kids like skateboards. What the heck, let's throw a skateboard into the game! But we'll make it HOVER! Awesome!"

          I agree that it would look less dumb as some kind of jetpack, but I guess we're stuck with it.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by UndeadRoadkill View Post
            ... it would look less dumb as some kind of jetpack, but I guess we're stuck with it.
            Having three dimensions of motion makes it a lot harder on the map makers. They can always leave out flying vehicles, but if everyone can fly, than that severely limits the kinds of barriers and obstacles one can put in a objective heavy WAR map.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Mort_Q View Post
              Having three dimensions of motion makes it a lot harder on the map makers. They can always leave out flying vehicles, but if everyone can fly, than that severely limits the kinds of barriers and obstacles one can put in a objective heavy WAR map.
              I'm just talking about aesthetics. It doesn't have to be a totally airborne Buck Rogers rocketpack. Perhaps it's a jetpack only strong enough to hover the player over the ground and increase speed, making it the same fucntion as the hoverboard is now.

              Comment


                #8
                I keep saying this, so I feel like a broken record... er CD.

                Manta and Raptor are seriously overpowered. The manta only does about 27 hp per shot but its high rate of fire and new found agility have put this over the top. The raptor does 40 per shot and that too has a rather high rate of fire.

                Another thing. Turn up the audio cues. In 2k4 You could hear the vehicles coming so it at least gave you a chance to at least to start looking for cover. Now they rather quiet. I think my friend put it best, "I used to be able to hear the vehicles, now I always get ninja'd by them."

                Comment


                  #9
                  some of the smaller cars corner a little weird, same with the hoverboard.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Brings a whole new meaning to the word "lengthy" LOL

                    Comment


                      #11
                      wow nice review and i have to agree to nearly all!
                      The thing i dont like most is the Goliath. It is so fast dead that you survive longer if you are walking. Its such a good target and can only take as much damage as a hellbender. I would give it at least 1200 HP (better more). In UT2004 it was awesome and dangerous, but now its weaker than weak.
                      Another point are the velocities of most weapon projectiles, they feel too slow. For example the shock balls. They should have the same speed as the balls from the shockrifle.

                      Edit: Yes i would also modify the hoverboard so that its only good for longer-medium distances.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hoverboards

                        I would much rather have the hoverboard than jetpacks. As something that everyone has, it needs to be pretty restricted in its functionality. Water impedes it significantly, and you can't travel vertically using it. A jetpack could be a fun power up, but not something I (as a player, and as a mapper) would want everyone to have.

                        Personally, I think the Hoverboard is a fine way of dealing with what would normally be long trudges. I wouldn't mind seeing the damage required to knock a player off raised, or the knocked-off downtime lowered, though. I think the knocked-off even by 1 point of damage was done to allay fears by ONS purists, and that as a practical matter it could be raised to 15-20 points of damage.



                        VCTF-Suspense

                        One thing that is a bit frustrating is that we are running into difficulty in getting a real feel for how these vehicles are going to perform in most maps due to the setup of VCTF-Suspense.

                        Players are provided with the Hammer, Enforcer, Link, Stinger, and Flak. Shock, Sniper, Rockets and Avril are available but more restricted, particularly the Avril. The Avril is quite a powerful weapon against most vehicles, so I have concerns that when every player has an Avril (via lockers) the perception of balance of player vs. vehicle may change. Shock is also a staple weapon, and without having easy access to it, the balance between infantry and vehicles is hard to assess.



                        Goliath - Personally, I think this thing "feels" a lot too light. In UT2004 when you started it up you got a satisfying churning of the engine before it settled into a steady hum. It started rolling slow, but quickly reached its maximum speed. The new Goliath does not seem to have the same visceral level of feedback when starting, and its forward and backwards movement feels too responsive to me for a vehicle that is moving from a dead stop.

                        The shell's visuals could use some improvement. I greatly prefer the yellow streak of the 2k4 Goliath turret to the smoky-rocket-like projectile of the UT3 Goliath. The yellow projectile was definitely more distinctive, to me, and having tank projectiles be highly visible seems like a good idea. I'm also not sure why a tank shell would emit smoke (I suppose the idea is that it's rocket-propelled and thus doesn't lose any height in its flight?).

                        I am okay with its reduced splash damage, but wouldn't mind seeing some more speed on the projectile. I wouldn't mind seeing an option for an anti-personnel round, but if there are any improvements to be made on that front I would probably rather see the gunner's seat get them than the main gun.

                        Currently the Goliath gets eaten alive by Mantas and Raptors, but I think this speaks to problems with the Manta and the Raptor, not with the Goliath.



                        Manta - I like the handling of the new Manta, but it is just too powerful right now. It's clear some changes were made to the vehicle to reduce its effectiveness somewhat, but changes to players made it even worse against them. Changes to the guns, which were already quite powerful for a vehicle that had so many other advantages, make it even better, whether against infantry or vehicles.

                        The handling is different, but I would say it's largely better. Its flight looks and feels more dynamic. It's also more unpredictable, which makes it tougher to shoot. Right now these things only have two major threats: Avrils, which are quite limited in Suspense, and Raptors. Lack of Shock Rifle doesn't help either, but I'm also not encouraged by the thought that a footsoldier is going to be virtually helpless against this thing unless he has Shock or Avril.



                        Raptor - Again, clearly too powerful. The guns are better than before, and lacking dodgejump, players have no options to escape from it. VCTF also doesn't give footsoldiers any reasonably effective means of dealing with it at the lockers. At least the plasma comes from actual guns now that need to be oriented properly, instead of shooting out of nowhere and angling even backwards.

                        That said, its flight is rather static. I was hoping we were going to see some more interesting flight mechanics (a barrel roll, perhaps? diving and climbing?) this time around, but it's been kept largely the same.

                        The missles were increased so much in effectiveness that I think we are going to see a lot of very empty skies -- I would rather have people on foot using the Shock Rifle against a Raptor than to be killed because the guy on the other team with the Raptor held down his alt fire and the auto-tracking missles caught me.



                        Hellbender - Handling is off, as I've said before. At first I thought this was going to be an extremely powerful vehicle, but it's actually the one I see going unused the most in games lately. Perhaps the map is just not conducive to a big machine barrelling down a flat road drawing attention to itself.

                        The skymines seem pretty **** powerful to me, but they're situational. The secondary gunner seat seems much reduced in effectiveness. It often does not shoot where I am aiming it, and the lack of a charge up feature means it loses its edge against Raptors and Mantas.


                        ---On Nonstandard vehicles

                        Paladin - Unfinished obviously. I'm glad that it can pick up a little more speed now, and that it turns better. The weapon is kind of unusual, and seems like it will be tougher to aim. The refire rate also seems a little slow, and the delay between firing and raising the shield does also.



                        Nemesis - This vehicle seemed very powerful, and the crouch-raise-raise functionality is interesting. It is a mobile turret, and I expect it will be dominating in skilled hands. I'm a bit disappointed it doesn't have a secondary seat, though, because with only lasers and zoom it seems a little vanilla. I'm a bit worried about the preponderance of hitscan weapons on the Necris side, too. The three that we've seen so far via the demo are all hitscan lasers.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by FordPrefect View Post
                          I guess you enjoy hiking twelve miles into combat when all the vehicles are gone... ?
                          No, but I don't enjoy hoverboarding or driving twelve miles into combat either. My beef with the hoverboard is that combat shouldn't be twelve miles away to begin with.

                          Originally posted by rhiridflaidd View Post
                          more armour [on the Goliath], certainly 1000-1200 - due to the raptor's increased firepower.
                          I'd rather see the Raptor's firepower decreased instead. Seems more logical. Otherwise all ground vehicles (not to mention people) need the extra health.

                          Originally posted by rhiridflaidd View Post
                          Fury - I couldn't get altfire to work
                          You have to be holding Forward, then you get the speed boost.

                          Originally posted by rhiridflaidd View Post
                          I think the manta vs infantry change is balanced. We need to have more experience of manta vs longbow to really know though.
                          I'd rather see not see the game degrade to another Onslaught where everybody must have their shock, link and AVRiL in arm's reach of the spawn point. That's a killer for variety.

                          Originally posted by rhiridflaidd View Post
                          I hope you score points for absorbing dammage to promote [the Paladin]'s use.
                          That would be very cool.

                          Originally posted by rhiridflaidd View Post
                          Raptor I think now this is easily the most powerful vehichle in the game. [...] I don't know yet if it's overpowerful.
                          It's small, so it has no business being the most powerful anyway. Axon should sell all its other vehicle divisions and focus on producing only Raptors.

                          Originally posted by Wail of Suicide View Post
                          I would much rather have the hoverboard than jetpacks. As something that everyone has, it needs to be pretty restricted in its functionality. Water impedes it significantly, and you can't travel vertically using it. A jetpack could be a fun power up, but not something I (as a player, and as a mapper) would want everyone to have.
                          Like UndeadRoadkill says, the difference needs not be functional, merely aesthetic.

                          Originally posted by Wail of Suicide View Post
                          the Hoverboard is a fine way of dealing with what would normally be long trudges.
                          Rant Alert! Rant Alert!

                          The underlying problem: why does a "zero time to spectacle" game contain long trudges to begin with? The hoverboard seems to be paraded around like an excuse for poor map design, an excuse to build bigger maps full of more nothing. Maps only need to be big enough to fit all the action. If you put in all the action and you still have some bits of map left... then the map is too big, and no hoverboard will fix that.

                          What's the fascination with big maps about anyway? Is that some American "Bigger is Better" thing? Big maps mean long ranged combat, firing shock beams at red and blue pixel blobs in the distance. Not exactly the "in your face" gameplay the series hopes to emulate. One of the best ONS maps ever is Dreamus 2, which is tiny and crammed full of action. All nodes in easy walking distance, no hoverboard needed.

                          Originally posted by Wail of Suicide View Post
                          At least the [Raptor] plasma comes from actual guns now that need to be oriented properly, instead of shooting out of nowhere and angling even backwards.
                          Yeah, that is a great change. I believe the same applies to the Manta, which could previously fire its plasma at 90 degrees from the barrels.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            i posted this in another thread but here it goes again...

                            Originally posted by SweetTooth
                            This is from data gathered summoning vehicles and the stock ones on Suspense. This was damage on vehicles only.

                            Goliath
                            Health: 800
                            Seats: 2
                            Damage: 300 per tank shell, minigun does ~66 damage a second

                            Not much has changed with this vehicle. The shell needs a better splash damage since you can hit almost right next to someone and not kill them. The trajectory seems a bit off too. Seems as if the gravity is really high and the tank shells fall fast.

                            Scorpion
                            Health: 300
                            Seats: 1
                            Damage: 75, kamikaze boost seems to do around 400

                            A much improved vehicle. The blades are still useless but fun to look at. The main weapon seems to be a take off of the flak ball but with a much better trajectory than the actual flak cannon. The boost is nice and will definitely make the vehicle something to fear for entrenched enemies. A solid kamikaze run will take half a tanks health and screw with the enemies head pretty nicely.

                            Hellbender
                            Health: 600
                            Seats: 2
                            Damage: skymine orbs and beams do 25 damage each, damage for the rear turret was very inconsistent ranging from 37 to 27 damage.

                            The driving seems a bit wonky to me. Almost like the vehicle has 4 wheel drive and stutters when turning. Handling also seems a bit squirrelly. The skymines are just like they were in 2k4 but the twin beams are gone for a really ****ty shock beam.

                            Manta
                            Health: 200
                            Seats: 1
                            Damage: ~27.5 per plasma shot

                            A mobile gun platform like it always was. Turns on a dime but slows down when crouching.

                            Raptor
                            Health: 300
                            Seats: 1
                            Damage: 40 per plasma shot, 150 per missile

                            A massive threat to infantry now. Plasma does a lot of damage and the rof on the missiles is ungodly. Couple that with the high splash damage and the raptor rapes hard.

                            Cicada
                            Health: 500
                            Seats: 2
                            Damage: 50 per missile, 25 per laser shot

                            The exact same as it was in 2k4 except with better handling. I would like to see if it gets tossed around like a beach ball though from turrets and shock primary.

                            Paladin
                            Health: 800
                            Seats: 1
                            Damage: 200

                            A much improved vehicle. Faster and actually feels useful. The shield looks good and the primary fire is powerful as ever. Seems like about the same rof but damage wise the same as 2k4. Definitely fills its roll as a defensive vehicle. Still slower than hell in reverse though.

                            SPMA
                            Health: 800
                            Seats: 2
                            Damage: skymine orbs and beams do 25 damage each, didn’t test the missile fire but the arcs were pretty terrible.

                            Still a worthless vehicle. Now the driver controls the skymines. You have to deploy the thing like a levi to fire the cannon making it more of a stationary target. The arc on the cannon is terrible though. Putting the camera straight up almost yielded no better arcing than anything else.

                            Darkwalker
                            Health: 1000
                            Seats: 2
                            Damage: 300 from a fully charged beam, the drivers secondary fire does a “scream” that knocks down nearby enemies, the passenger does ~ 28 damage per shot

                            A fun vehicle. The main cannon is deadly at a range and even close up. Turret moves exceptionally slow which I am not too fond of but oh well. A most agile vehicle too. There is little terrain it cannot climb over. I have found that unless the object is taller than the little orb above the legs the darkwalker will go right over it. The crouching is fun for stealth but you are sooooooo slow. If there are two people in this thing then it is definitely something to fear. I am not thrilled with the auto zoom when you use the primary fire though.

                            Fury
                            Health: 400
                            Seats: 1
                            Damage:300 from a fully charged beam

                            Think of it as a flying darkwalker. It is a bit slow but the boost feature makes up for it at times. The main cannon is just like the darkwalkers doing heavy damage only if you can keep the xhairs on the target. And much like the darkwalker I am not thrilled with the auto zoom when using primary fire.

                            Nemesis
                            Health: 600
                            Seats: 1
                            Damage: 50 per laser

                            Think of literally like a mobile turret, so dual lasers doing decent damage with a high rof. The kicker on this thing is how it drives. You hit crouch and you become a sleek, fast beast. You hit jump and you rise up for better downward angles but are slow as hell. A devastating vehicle though. Against airborne opponents and infantry this thing is god. it is a hitscan tank plain and simple. the high rof with high damage makes this thing a prime candidate for nerfing.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              First off, I want to say your feedback rocks and pretty much entirely my thoughts as well. I didn't summon extra vehicles, just the ones in Suspense.

                              Hellbender - The first time I hopped in I started driving down the ramp and though the acceleration was great, it wasn't as slow starting as the old one, then I tried to turn around the corner and somehow all forward momentum was gone and there was the wall.... flush against the front of the vehicle.

                              Took a little adjusting to not pressing 2 for the skymine turret, it seemed slightly easier to pull off the combo, but thats because the orbs didn't seem to travel as fast, often times enemies were already in an entirely different location and the explosion wouldn't even touch them. After that I didn't even bother with the rear turret.

                              Hellfire- in many online matches I did see this getting used. Location = Exactly where it spawns.... people would just launch from there, right past the bridge and were able to hit people trying to get across. I found it hard to even find the beacon sometimes once it was in the air. However because of it's spawn point, one could send a few avrils down and be done with it.

                              Manta - I loved it when I was in one, it seemed to handle pretty much the same (got a little kick out of the "classic" sounds). I recalled it now missing crouched targets, I tried and a manta did rush over me, their solution = crouch the manta and go back over me.... No real way to escape from a manta attack, if they somehow miss running you over the insane firing rate will kill you.

                              Raptor - new and flashy, seems totally unrelated to the previous one. The raptor is strong and overly durable. Most matches I saw people tethered to a raptor, they were able to descend slow enough to drop off their teammate while killing anyone in sight. Raptor vs Raptor is a quick fight, several times I grabbed our raptor, locked on and shot them down before they even tried to respond to me. I remember raptor fighting almost being an epic duel in Torlan, both people could evade eachother and getting Top Gun meant something.

                              Scorpion - pretty much same deal as hellbender, when I saw it turned too violently to use I hopped out and moved on.

                              Hoverboard - yes I saved it for last. I entirely agree, I found myself hopping on - dismounting for pickups - then hopping on again and going to the next pickup. I wasn't sure about the cornering, you were right about hitting walls, if I saw me getting stuck on a turn I would just jump off - straighten out on foot - and hop back on. I found that the winning team usually had a manta - hoverboard group, foot man would grab the flag and then get towed out, often times they would glide right out into the water and avoid the bridge entirely. If one was able to take out the footman, the manta driver would kill you then take the flag and hover the rest of the way.
                              I also found myself trying to hoverboard up the cables of the bridge, which worked alright until about 3/4 of the way when sometimes I'd loose all momentum and just sorta hang there. It seemed that shifting from side to side would rebuild that momentum but when playing online I often found myself just falling off at the top.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X