UI feedback

[Omnes Vulnerant]

Well on the bright side, if Epic doesn't fix the overall look and functionality I'm sure someone will make a mod.

[Taleweaver]

Wow...18 pages of "feedback" (of which pretty much half is letting know things need to be improved).

I wish I knew about this earlier. I almost sent the following straight to WarTourist. :-\

(by the way: if you somehow think this thread isn't long enough: the titan community basically agrees with my findings).




The first screen, and already there are 3 possible improvements. For one, I don't see why the title is all the way on the upper left while the options are on the right. Wouldn't it be better to put it above the options?

It's obvious this isn't a screen the average user will be seeing often. However, Epic often stressed the point that there are more offline than online users. If so, shouldn't there be an option to indicate bypassing this screen and going directly into the offline section? After all, these offline users have no reason to actually care about the login screen. They might not even have an open connection to the net!
The remark in the lower right isn't so much a notion here as it is a remark to the player name: why is the nickname tied to the profile? Perhaps it's a bug in the beta, but if you're unable to connect to the net, you're pretty much stuck with the nickname "Player".


The instant action menu showcases a fine example why navigating these screens is hard.
To start out with something easy: spread out the tabs "Game mode", "Map" and "Settings" some more. Currently, it looks as if "game" and "mode" are 2 different options.

At first, I had honestly no idea how to get back to the main menu. It took me a while to realise the buttons "back" and "forward" navigate the tabs to the left and right, and that it only goes to the main menu if you're on the most left screen. A single "Main menu" button would have sufficed instead of both these buttons. But if these have to be in, at least switch the place of the buttons "Back" and "Start game".

Finally, there's that extra window that listens to the name "Bots". In UT2004, the bot roster was on the right, and everyone knew where it was. Or were there complaints? I really don't see how hiding it just to have it show up if you click "settings" is any better.


This is the screen people will be seeing when they press escape. Call me uninterested into the storyline if you like, but I'm much more interested to see the "score" tab than the "game" tab at this point.

Second: what is the added value of an extra "Rules" tab underneath the "game" tab if all the info of said tab is included in the "score" tab as well? IMO it only confuses users.

By now, you surely have at least glanced the above picture. Now...Glance at it again, look away and tell me: which tab is currently active; The "Game" or the "Settings" one? The answer is (of course) the "game" one...but then why does the option that is within click range stand out from the background so much? If it was my engine, I'd simply switch up the two options.

That there isn't an "Exit game" in the main menu isn't a problem. People don't leave that often when they're about to start the game anyway. But this is an ingame menu. Is it really needed to click your way all the way to the main menu (which includes reloading the 3D map there) just to exit the game?

I'm currently behind a firewall, which is pretty much the same as being one of the many offline players (in other words: I can't load a profile). It may sound stupid, but I simply cannot get rid of being called "Player". The setplayername command works fine...until the start of the next game. Then I'm automatically renamed back to "Player". (and "Player" just happens to be my arch nemesis in UT2004 ).


I'm not done with the ingame menu yet. I admit there are settings I'm more likely to change in the middle of the game than others, but why hide away the "advanced settings" under a global "settings" one? This only increases the amount of clicks between wanting to change a certain setting and actually changing that setting. Renaming things to "basic settings" and "advanced settings" shouldn't be too hard: there's plenty of space on that upper bar (and this screen is taken at 640x480 resolution).

By the way: it's only because I spent time exploring these menu's that I noticed there's an "Orders" tab and a "Change team" option (in the appropriate gametypes). Hmm...not the best way for people to discover things like this. Instead of making these options invisible in the gametypes that don't use them, I'd grey these out. It adds consistensy to the GUI; it tells people which options there are, even if they can't use them.
Finally: there's an error I make way too often: I assume that the "back" button actually means "go back to the previous screen". Kinda like how it worked in the main menu. Since this button actually returns you to the game, I strongly recommend renaming it to "Return to game"


Erm...well...I think the message in the picture speaks for itself. It's a nice screen and all, but...it literally only increases the amount of clicks or (if you're on a console) joypad settings. It doesn't add anything that the picture below doesn't have. Not if you get here from the main menu, and neither if you get here from the ingame "advanced" button under "settings".



The complete "settings" menu. And in case it isn't clear yet: I hate having 2 rows of menu's and submenu's. Especially if one is on the top of the screen and one on the bottom. But let's start from the upper left...

In the "video" tab (not on the picture), there's an "advanced" option for some extra options. But why must these options be in a separate menu? In UT2004, there was a single checkbox called "advanced" that added the advanced stuff to the menu if it was checked. And those settings were quite some more advanced than they are here. Will it really confuse the non-technical user if they saw a "world detail" option directly under the "video" tab?

More to the right: yes, I know rebinding keys is found under "input" in all previous UT-games as well. That doesn't take from the fact that people change their input keys much more than any other of these input options.

And now to the main issue on this picture: I don't see the reason for having a separate "Weapons" tab. Just look at it: crosshair type is part of the HUD (or at least in 'weapon priority', if you're going to allow changing crosshairs per weapon). So is the weapon hand, the "small weapons" option and both options to configure the weapon bar. The only thing that really deserves to be in this tab is "weapon switch on pickup"...and I doubt it'll look much out of place if it was transferred over to the "input" tab.


Phew...I know this whole thing might seem as if I'm disliking what I see, or that I'm splitting hairs. There's some truth in both of this, but there's a bigger picture here. The game itself is still rock solid, and of course I'm not not buying the game because it's a bit hard to navigate the screens. But details like these matter quite a bit when people get their first opinions. If someone joins in on a custom map with low framerates, I doubt he's going to like the fact that he has 5 screens to navigate through (game - settings - advanced settings - video - advanced) just to lower his world detail. He'll be 3 frags behind by the time he is back in the game...and that's assuming he knows where to find the setting.

I'm very aware that this game is to be used in PS3 and XBOX360, and I guess there are most likely extra options to be added. But since this is a beta release, I think it's better to point out possible improvements now than complain about things when it's too late to make remarks.

Keep up the good work. The game itself is rock solid.


Thanks for reading

[tlc]

Absolutely excellent post

Superb post mate.

Everything between clicking the icon on the desktop and "press any key to join match" is ugly, aggravating, timewasting rubbish and should be scrapped.

Whoever came up with it needs a good kicking. It's ****.

[McTerry]

I agree.. very well made.

[MeepZero]

The healthbars over top of the vehicles could use a bit more opacity to them. It can sometimes be somewhat difficult at a passing glance to see what their relative health is at.

There should be an option clientside to disable brightskins, for those of us who like to have things the hard way

I'm getting used to the layout of the HUD, but it would be great to have it much more configurable, add in options for size for all numeric values on screen.

User configurable crosshair support is also needed, some weapons the defaults are fine such as rockets and bio. While others like the shock are over the top and get more in the way than anything else.

Crosshairs on the vehicles are a mixed bag as well, I like the utility of how they show if you can hit your target or not, but some seats could use more specialized crosshairs for what they are designed for. For example, the sniper cannon on the back of the hellbender could use a more accurate pinpoint style of crosshair.

Visual indicators for recharging the boosters on the scorpion would be great.

I mentioned this earlier, and under the assumption that it is not a bug, the rear canon on the hellbender really needs looked at. I played with it almost exclusively the past couple days and it needs to be brought closer to what it once was in UT 2k4. The reason I bring it up in the UI thread is because it needs some sort of visual indicator for what seems to be itself auto charging (IE: doing single shot damage ~109 and rapid fire at 25-50 or so) There has to be some way of monitoring its relative strength. Fixing the painfully short zoom would be great too.

[Coreper]

some things i would like to see after this BETA:
-a reconnect button to reconnect to a server after you got disconnected from a server, for unknown reasons
-a button which allows you to exit directly from the game to the windows desktop
-a change to the display of a selected button: its really hard to see which button you selected... [i also got two buttons selected at the same time, using the arrow buttons to navigate]
-a shortkey which would disable the "ready" screen before a match, so you wont have to press: Ready [or just remove that screen]

[D2F[Rob]]

Please fix the buggy inbetween game chat!!

[Omnes Vulnerant]

Excellent post, TaleWeaver. I really hope epic goes back to the functionality and look of wht UT2004 had.

[EntropicLqd]

...
-a button which allows you to exit directly from the game to the windows desktop..

Press TAB.
Type "quit" (without quotes) and press Enter.

Job done.

[EntropicLqd]

..awesome post..

Well said.

I'm very suprised you didn't comment on the completely redundant "Are you really sure you want to start the game with the current settings (not that I'm going to tell you what they are)" page.

[DrFish]

Tip of the moment: To change the resolution, type

setres <xres>x<yres> in the console

example: setres 800x600

I was testing various resolutions to find a playable and nice looking sweet spot settings, when I found this out.

[CreepyD]

2 bugs:
1. I just got cut off from a server (think it was my end).
Back at the menu, I used the console command 'reconnect'
It reconnected ok (even keeps your score now which is cool) but my view and keyboard mappings were all reset.

I have used reconnect ok once before so no idea why it did this, I did enter it more than once in the console which could have caused it.

2. Not seen this mentioned, but I get 4fps while the 'chat' part is open at the end of each game. It's over 30fps in all the other sections.
It would be nice to see what people are saying under the scoreboard, all on 1 page.

[SynACK]

my 2 cents

I realize a lot has already been said here.. Just wanted to put my thoughts in here Really quick..

I have played all the unreal titles, and I have to say this is the worst menu system yet. It seems glitchy and badly proportioned. While it has nice Eye candy and at first blush was really cool looking.. I have found it to lack much needed functionality and ease of use.

Now.. What works. In all the games thusfar I have thought that the ut2kX menu system was the most usable. While it did have the downfall of alot of options to scare off some people, it did infact give the options unfettered to those who wanted them.

I personally believe that a Tabbed menu aproach is much better than the graphically intense multiscreen thing (next, back, next again etc) you got going on in the demo.
Now I realize that for some of the new players (console players etc) who are used to much simpler menu's you probably trying to keep the interaction somewhat universal. No Problem.. There should be a way to have a tabbed system for controllers and PC players alike. But allow the extra configuration of say graphic/sound/controller options available.. So as not to clutter the basic screens.. Perhaps an Advanced Button here and there.

I like A LOT of this game, and hate to suggest going back to square one with something as key as the menu system. However as a long-time player, I think that alot of the work has already been done, at least as far as structure. Coding might be a different beast at this point while it looks like the menu system is following a newer genre of xml/flash/html-ish implementation. While this might be an easier way to implement a menu, it sure hasn't improved the user experience as far as the new menu system.

So Epic.. PLEASE don't turn your back on your previous accomplishments. While some may not have appreciated your previous menu systems. I for one have. Or maybe you just didn't hear anything from the users as the previous Menu systems simply worked and worked well.

And one other note.. It seems that because of the new ini structure and ofcourse compiling of the engine etc.. That the console commands have changed. No problem.. However It seems that yet again you have turned your back on existing working capabilities, such as working commands like pipeweaponswitch, getweapon.. etc (either that or they aren't in the Demo). Not to mention simple features like copy and past from the windows clipboard.
I understand, new game, new console, but speaking now as someone who supports and codes applications and new application versions. It has been my experience to try to incorporate as much of the current and existing user functionality into new versions and iterations of the application (or Game in this case). Thus providing the best user experience, for old and new users. That being said I do realize the necessity for change in some cases, mostly when old functionality is NOT possible. That does NOT seem to be the case here though, as a LOT of the previous functionality is there or slightly renamed.

And thanks again for all your hard work so far.

[Tid.biT]

A couple points I have not seen brought up, sorry if they are repeats.

1) The mouse is hard to see in certain areas of the menu. The white mouse over the nearly white top and bottom menu areas specifically.

2) There is no way to directly exit the game in the first (profile, login, play offline) screen.

Thanks for releasing this demo beta.

[Boksha]

I'm sure a lot of this has been posted before, but this thread is 14 pages even with my forum config. Here's my lengthy feedback on the UI.
IMO there's a lot wrong with the current menus.
Entering the menu, the first flaw is having a selection bar move smoothly with the mouse. Bad idea. Currently it can end up between two items and you don't even know what you're clicking. Just print all selections at their current maximum size below each other and have a selection bar that clearly clicks to the items.

Next, the instant action menu. The first two screens only let you select a single option each. These two screens could easily be lumped on one side of the third screen, reducing three screens to a single screen. In the third screen, why are all the options selectables? PC players use a mouse. Whatever we're pointing at is selected, whatever we click at is activated. The menu doesn't have to be accessible with the keyboard so we don't need a "current" menu item. Help can be given about what we hover over. Also, when the player hits the "start" button, start the game. No need to ask for confirmation. This reduces starting an instant action game from 4 clunky screens to one easily accessible screen.

The multiplayer options should dump you directly into the serverbrowser, or a tabbed interface combined with the community section (first tab that gets automatically selected should be the "News" tab like in UT2004). No need for wizards. Wizards are for first time uses. Having them forced every time is madness. How often do you use a program for the first time? Once. How often do you use a program NOT for the first time? Lots. So you're making the menu more useful just once and frustrating and clunky lots of times. Bad deal. Just do the wizard the first time, then put everything that gets asked in the wizard at the bottom of the screen as changable options.

Next the settings. This is a fully tabbed interface (except for the credits, but those shouldn't even BE in the settings menu, unless in the full version we can configure Epic's employee lineup). Because there's tabs, we don't need a seperate screen to determine which tab we want to go to first. We ESPECIALLY don't need to see that screen when we want OUT of the settings menu. Again, the seperate settings don't need to be selectables. They don't have to be put in a vertical list. Putting some next to each other in logical groups saves space and makes the interface more intuitive.
The graphics menu has 7 settings. We don't need an "Advanced" menu for 4 more settings, especially not if those settings are the ones you'll be changing in practice. 1 screen is better than 2 screens. Audio menu: get rid of the scrollbar. Fit it all on one screen. The input menu: we don't need a seperate screen for key config. As for the key config, we shouldn't have to click twice to change a key. Again, PC users have mice. No need for selectable items. What's being clicked at is the item that gets activated/toggled, what we get info on is the item we hover over. Weapon menu: again, no need for a seperate screen just for priorities. UT2004 fit this in a single screen. Why can't UT3?

The ingame menu. 1. Don't make it fullscreen. 2. Don't put in the scoreboard. There already is a scoreboard button. 3. If MOTD and Rules are seperate screens, why aren't they seperate tabs? 4. We don't need a rules screen. The rules are displayed on the scoreboard. 5. Don't put in a mini-settings menu. There already is a settings menu that would actually be better than this settings menu once it was cleaned up. 6. The chat menu shouldn't be a seperate screen. I'm coming to that shortly. 7. Dump the friends menu entirely. This should be part of the serverbrowser, which should be accessible from the in-game menu.

So what's left of the in-game menu? Not much.
1. Buttons. There should be a "Settings" button that instantly puts you in the tabbed settings menu (and not first to a select tab menu) There should be "Server Browser" and "Disconnect/Main menu" buttons and an "Exit Game" button (which isn't there at all right now) 2. A players list where you can mute players or view their details. 3. The chat interface which is needed only when streaming/voting the next map, so it can be a seperate window that's only visible then.
What's left when we're not streaming the next map is exactly UT2004's in-game menu. A players list with buttons at the bottom . Maybe a MOTD section above the entire thing. When streaming, the chat section can be added at the bottom or top.
No confirm is needed when disconnecting. No confirmation is needed ever, except for the reset-to-defaults buttons because they have a permanent irreversible effect.

I'm not even going to comment on the serverbrowser. Look at UT. Look at UT2004. Heck, even UT2003 did it better than the UT3 demo. Also, the serverbrowser should be available from the in-game menu so you can check whether there's a better game to join BEFORE you disconnect from the current one.

That's all I've got. Additionally:

[23:05.59] <spookij> tell them to stop making games
[23:06.06] <spookij> and concentrate on a fusion reactor