Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why hide your code?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Cman, because most server admins don't bother doing redirect, so most downloads are done non-compressed...

    Comment


      #17
      I guess this comes down to getting permission and credit!
      Not eveyone will ask for permission to use custom content, and it shouldn't be our problem to point out their stupidity to the community, that they ripped our content without permission, they shouldn't do it in the first place, since they know it's wrong, and will end up at the bottom of the hill.

      Maybe if Epic had a public License which we could purchase to allow us to protect our unpaid work, or pay us for the work we submit through this License, that would be nice.

      Comment


        #18
        For me the reason to strip code doesn't weigh up to the negative side effects of stripping code.

        Also interesting to note, that a lot of people make the mistake of putting all their code in a single package (both server side only and client\server code). If you create a (small) mod that has client\server code (e.g. code that needs to be replicated), always try to create a seperate package for the client\server code, and always try to keep that as small as possible. Ofcourse this could mean you might have to create a lot of interface classes that do nothing more than forward the code to a server-side only class.
        I don't know if this can be done for UTcomp (because I can't look at the code (note, I could decompile it, but I don't want to)), but there are a lot of (small) mods out there that can profit from this.

        Comment


          #19
          I manage a modified mapvote for UT99 (x3dfxMapVote). I strip the source for the same reasons listed above. First, the decompiled source is useless, as it doesnt compile and work (it compiles, but wont work in netgames) because some of the defaults dont get exported correctly. Secondly, the package is 360k, a 90 second download on dialup, and the stripped package is ~140k, a 30 second download on dialup. Finally, to anyone who wants the source, it is available through me, as I give it to anyone who asks for it. This is stated in the thread on BDB's forum with every release, as well as in the readme. And lets not forget, with UT2004, that 220k that is stripped is the difference between a whitelisted mod and a non-whitelisted mod.

          Comment


            #20
            strip the source for the same reasons listed above. First, the decompiled source is useless, as it doesnt compile and work (it compiles, but wont work in netgames) because some of the defaults dont get exported correctly.
            decompiled source code ins't that useless, it takes a little while to make the code 100% correct (not that much work, since the hardest things is already done). And it does work online.

            And lets not forget, with UT2004, that 220k that is stripped is the difference between a whitelisted mod and a non-whitelisted mod.
            Not completely true, however (like I said above), you will just have to make sure you try to limit the side as much as possible.
            And for map voting tools most of the code is server-side only.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by the Adster
              The full source code for all SPDT projects is only an email away.
              Somebody rocks. Not gonna say who, but the nick almost rhymes with Napster.

              Dicky B (If I had anything worth stealing, I probably wouldn't care if it was any more than I do now, though.. Which is not at all, as long as there's some proppage for the borrowage, and asking is *always* nice.)

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Lotus
                Cman, because most server admins don't bother doing redirect, so most downloads are done non-compressed...
                You're not really responsible for compensating admins' stupidity and/or laziness...

                Comment


                  #23
                  I've had my code stolen before, and I created a Perl script to strip my code of all the source. However I never used the script.

                  I figured it would by hypocritical to use the Unreal Wiki, a community effort to help developers, then strip my code of information I learned from that site.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    I've had one of my creations used in the most atrocious way that my mind could fathom.

                    One of my weapons' code was used by a clan to create 7 other weapons, each of them consisting of about 99% of my code, 1% theirs (by modifying default properties). Not only were my 13 classes copied file for file, but nearly all of the code was the same, *line for line*. To add to the damage, my name was DELETED from the open source copyright notices in every single class, and replaced by their own names. To contradict the license itself (in which they now put their name as the copyright holder), there is no source code available to anyone, or even public downloads for the weapons except the redirect server.

                    My wife asked them "where they got their cool guns", and they replied "I don't think there's a single gun on our servers that wasn't made by us". In the most professional and polite manner possible, I told their admin that they are violating a legally binding contract whether they are aware of it or not, and offered help on how to fix it up to make it conform to the license. Then he got all abusive and hostile and started calling me all sorts of names. He eventually calmed down and agreed to cooperate. I haven't followed up on it, because I don't need the drama if he didn't keep his word.

                    I have no grudge against them, mostly because they probably weren't aware of what they were doing. I thought I'd bring it up as a good example of why some programmers should strip their source.

                    There's a difference between learning from other peoples' code, and shamelessly copying code line for line and taking every bit of credit for it.

                    I haven't stripped any of my code yet, but of course everything I've made in the last few years is open source. Maybe it's time for a change...

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by 3v1£jesú§
                      I have no grudge against them, mostly because they probably weren't aware of what they were doing. I thought I'd bring it up as a good example of why some programmers should strip their source.
                      Don't think that is a good reason to strip your code.
                      The infamous VSK clan re-released one of my mods for UT (back in 2000) with the only difference in the package name and the readme file.
                      For pretty much everything I create I grant everybody the right to use my code or even continue it after I stopped it development. This usually stated in the license attached to the release. A lot of people asked me if they could use/port/... my code (even if I already stated they where allowed to), just as professional courtesty.
                      People that don't respect your effort (and rights) won;t respect it even if you did "try" to hide your code.

                      When I see a mod that has it's code stripped I always decompile it just to check that they didn't use any of my code. I don't trust people that are stripping their code.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Ok guys I think you all bring up excellent points. I myself have been thinking about this issue recently. I have been working on a mod for the unreal engine and have been browsing other mods code for ideas and such.
                        The main issue I have is that if I copy and paste a function (ofcoarse I know what it does) am I stealing?
                        I dont agree with people who take code word for word, line by line and change nothing but default properties or package names.
                        Say I find a really cool way of doing something in some one elses code and duplicate that into my own am I stealing?
                        I am not an expert coder, I consider myself an intermediate level unreal scripter although there is still alot for me to learn. I find myself looking at my code and wanting to give credit where it is due.
                        I think the main issue should not really be about permission as we are using, essentially, a free engine to make free mods. Does that mean our code isnt ours it belongs to the community as a whole?
                        Hiding code is just silly really if you want to protect your code you will have to invest some money and liscence the engine.
                        Now say I use one function from a mods source do I have to email them and ask them to use it? How can you copyright a function or a variable?
                        Now with the whole credit thing. Should I include every mods who's code I may have browsed while searching to try and find a solution to a problem. Or list every person who responded to posts I may have made in the forums in the credit of my mod?
                        I have been leaving comments in my code of which mods I got a function from or a really good idea. I feel sometimes as though Im stealing and Im not producing my own work. But on the other hand I cant just copy and paste and expect something to work I do need knowledge of unreal script and sometimes it take me just as long to intergrate something as it would have for them to write it so is the code as much mine as it is theirs?
                        Im really at a loss with this whole thing. I think we should be working closer as a community not distancing ourselves. I really dont like people who wont let you use a piece or a function from their code without expressed permission. I think if we all just give a little credit where it is due. Like a comment here or there or maybe thanking the community as a whole in the credits of our mods the community might become a better place.
                        Ok thanks for listening to my little rant.
                        Im not to sure how this will go down with all of you, Im not trying to single anyone or any mod in particular with these comments they are just my general thoughts on the whole code hiding, stealing, swapping, sharing debate.
                        Personally I think every one should share as much of their knowledge as they can to improve the community and the unreal engine.
                        Thanks again!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          The main issue I have is that if I copy and paste a function (ofcoarse I know what it does) am I stealing?
                          If you are allowed to: no, it's using (but if you say you wrote it, it's plagiarism)
                          If you are not allowed to: yes, it's stealing

                          The story behind it doesn't matter.

                          Should I include every mods who's code I may have browsed while searching to try and find a solution to a problem. Or list every person who responded to posts I may have made in the forums in the credit of my mod?
                          If you think it's the right thing to do so, then yes (e.g thanks list).
                          However, if you use a modified version of somebody else's creation, then you must include it (actual credits).

                          Comment


                            #28
                            One of the best reasons that I license my software and UT* mods in open source is to promote sharing and the free software community. In return, I ask that if people are using my code, they should at least conform to the license agreement. Because if they don't, they're just helping themselves, and not really sharing now, are they?

                            Comment


                              #29
                              I believe in open source, so anything I do will not be "stripped."

                              Hopefully anyone who uses code written by another programmer is decent and honest enough to give credit where credit is due.

                              But if someone steals it, I know who the originator was and they know too. That will be enough. Because thieves never get very far in life.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I believe that orrowing code is fine. But you must make reference to whom you borowed it from as well as some kind of website if they have one. As for distributing my code, I tend to give out parts of my code and give it to people whom want it, but most of the time I don't just post it up cause I'ma pretty messy coder still. Kinda embarrasing, u know?

                                But if it wasn't for people like Knight99 and Adster, I'd be very behind on my projects. So, why not extend the same grace to other people I say.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X