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Half-Life 2 / UT2003 engines comparison.

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  • replied
    I forgot to mention...

    HL2 is based on HL1, even though it looks so different. That would lead that the codebase is going to be largely c++ like you said.

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  • replied
    I think one of the smartest things Epic did code wise was keeping the gameplay source pretty much open. So people can see how things were done in the real game.. then expand on it. Also if you see something in another mod you can see how they did it and learn from it. So the UT coding community keeps building and makes it easier for newb's to start coding. Its like a big open source community.
    if hl2 is anything like HL1 it will for the most part be C++ compiled DLL's. So any luck of learning from other mods is not really possible. I did read in an interview that in HL2 they were taking the load of coding in sounds off the coders back and making it easy enough for the sound guy to add himself with little to no programming knowledge. They really need to do more of that.

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  • replied
    //JaFO(JBE)
    How many times do people need to tell you that WE NEED SAVEGAME!!!!!

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  • replied
    // Doc_EDo
    How many times do people need to tell you that any time spent on a feature that's not needed for the game itself is better spent on features that are useful/necessary ?

    Besides : we don't even know how much will be fixed in the 'compatibility-patch' that is going to be released. Perhaps it already is, but Epic wants to minimize the number of patches they release for UT'03.

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  • replied
    A year is a lot in compu land, so comparing a to be released engine with a engine thats around for a year is just bad.
    Besides, I also didnt see anything 'new' in the HL2 demo movies. Better bigger faster, but it would be shamefull it it wasnt.
    i think that ut2003 engine holds all you need to make any type of game you want (well not any but any 3d related ).
    I am sure its very tiring to not be able to use 99% of existing game code to make your own game and blame it on the engine, but the ENGINE supports all it needs, sure the savegame bug is nasty, but can be bypassed to make your own.
    The core ENGINE features are very good and complete no matter what, its mod makers lazyness if they want to make a game that isnt close to ut2003 and feel that the game lacks it.

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  • replied
    How hard is it to put Savegame in the next patch of UT2003??? Epic's lazyness is pure RUDE! :down:

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  • replied
    The only reason UT99 had better SP support is that a lot of code/content had been used from Unreal 1, remember that UT would have been a MP add-on pack for Unreal 1, but Epic decided to release it as a seperate game.

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  • replied
    There is nothing "technically" done in HL2 that can't be done in the current build of the Unreal Engine. Unfortunately, UT2003 is FAR from the "current build" of the engine...in fact this build was already old when UT2003 was released. So in other words, there is really no comparison.

    As for the other features...it is too bad about the savegame feature...but ALOT of other SP games will only let you save at the beginning of a level, so I don't see this as a HUGE constraint to SP mods. As for the AI, you probably could rewrite the entire AI from the ground up in your own mod if you wanted to...by referencing the Unreal 2 Source Code you probably could figure out a great deal about how SP AI works in the Unreal Engine.

    I've thought about starting an SP mod that would be finished during UT2k4s timeframe (when these two problems should be fixed) but I don't know how many people will care. I personally like SweetDreams and the direction is heading, but I don't know how well the community has accepted it so far.

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  • replied
    My problem is that I don't think UT as a MP only title, brings anything new to the table that we didn't get in the old days when you released a SP game that had MP game styles. What this means, is that moder's are forced to chose between investing their knowledge in either Unreal 2, or UT to learn to mod in. Granted when you know one you can pick up the other pretty easy, but you also have to consider who will be able to experience your work as if you invest in one, now there is a whole separate group of people who can't play the other, unless they buy into that title.

    I know you could argue that people who like SP games don't like MP or visa versa, but from my experience with my own group of gamer friends, we all range from people who at least play the SP missions some, to some of us who really love the SP (well good SP) games.

    I loved Half Life, and it was great to be able to play great mod's like Counter-strike and Team Fortress. Then because those mods were around (or perhaps simply because HL was a good game) I could enjoy going back and playing through the SP game a few more times over the years. I just don't think a game that gives us what current MP only games give us, can offer as much value to me in that way.

    Sorry for hijacking this thread, but I guess these are important issues that you have to consider when you compare two engins like these games. By far I think the UT and possibly the future release of the HL2 engine are and will be the best ones out there. I just wish that Epic would have thought bigger as to the life of their Unreal engine (and don't talk to me about U2 as I have said my peace above).

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  • replied
    Because of all things that changed the savegame function got broken, and since there was absolutely no need for it in UT2003 they didn't set a priority to fix it.
    And like JaFo said, UT2003 has not been designed for story based SP games.

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  • replied

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  • replied
    Why would a mod for a multiplayer-game need a save-feature ?
    And why isn't the ini-file-system not good enough for saving ?

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  • replied
    Sure but UT2003 lacks the SaveGame feature and for modders that's a HUGE drawback. For Epic that would be very easy and fast to implement if they wanted. I mean you could cope with almost all other stupid things that it has but lack of SaveGame is just a drop too much.

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  • replied
    There's one big mistake in trying to compare HL2 and UT'03 ...
    HL2 is a singleplayer-engine that can do multiplayer as well.
    UT'03 is pure multiplayer only ...

    Because of the focus on single-player the need for interactive objects is greater as well.
    In this aspect it is a bit like comparing a stunt in a movie to one that's done in a amusement park. The movie-version doesn't need to be repeated so it can be a one-shot setup.
    Otoh the amusementpark needs something that can be done a million times without causing any problems.
    In a SP-environment it makes sense to have crates that can break, but in a MP-environment you'd have to take care that the broken crate doesn't cause any problems in the level for the other players.

    And I'm sure you'll find better SP-oriented AI in Unreal 2 and other SP-versions of the Unreal-engine too ... (IIRC it uses plain text-files for the dialogs ... )

    As for building an engine to be easily modified ... I say Do'h!
    Of course you'll want an engine that has that. Not just for publicity, but for their own licensing needs as well (the less training any potential customer would need the more customers you can serve ... ).

    Valve/Sierra may not have bought into the separate SP & MP-games 'marketing-****', but they did manage to buy into the 'rerelease half-life to squeeze every penny out of the popularity of one of the add-ons' -marketing-**** ...

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  • replied
    Epic does provide information, it's just limited to the major part of the UnrealScript language.
    The only thing missing is the game flow documentation, also a lot of game code documentation is missing.
    But since you have most of the source it doesn't matter much.

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