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    #31
    Originally posted by clearz
    I bet you would find it hard to find a University these days that teach Delphi, VB, Perl. There is a reason for this and its because the industry dosen't need any more of these programmers.
    Really universities shouldn't teach specific languages, they should teach all the programming concepts you need to learn any language you need. What's currently an IN language is bound to change in a few years so it's not much good if that's all you can do.

    I've been taught haskell, not because it's actually used much in the industry, but because it's an example of a functional language.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Psyk
      Really universities shouldn't teach specific languages, they should teach all the programming concepts you need to learn any language you need. ...
      I would have to disagree on that point good sir.
      That's actually kind of hard to do. It's one thing to know the theory behind it. But it's another to actually go and code. Anyone can easily come up with the logic and theory behind a game and game play. But if you don't know any languages, there's no way you can go and code it.
      If you were not taught any language, how would you go about learning it? It would take you forever. That's like throwing a dictionary at someone who doesn't speak english and saying "Here, learn it yourself".

      The main point is to give you a foothold to start on. And then it's up to you to scale the mountain.
      Also, once you learn the basics of one language, it's not that hard to pick up other languages.
      As well, teaching at least one language, no matter what the language, helps to reinforce the theory.

      I started out learning Basic/QBasic on my own. With no one to teach me, I was pretty lost. That was in grade 8. In grade 9, they started teaching us WinOOT (Windows Object Oriented Turing, which then became OOT/Turing 4 (all developed by holt-soft)).

      I learned all the basic concepts of programming, as well as a lot of the advanced ones through highschool, and the only language they taught was OOT. I now know: PHP, Perl, VB, C, C++, Java, JavaScript, X/D/HTML, MFC, Machine/Assembly, plus a bunch of others. As well as OOT.
      And I'm now learning UnrealScript (which is very similar to Java and OOT).
      Whenever I get stuck on something (in any language) I first think "How would I do that in OOT, or <insert a known language here>, or <language here>?" And I base the answer on the syntax of the language I'm programming in (and my knowledge of it thus far). Whether what I come up with is correct, or not, I at least have a foothold/place to start, and I can go thru help/reference files and stuff much faster, becaue I know what to search for (or the general gist of it).
      If you're not taught at least one language, how would one put to work the concepts you've learned, or reinforce what you have learned?

      Besides, knowing one language, makes it easier to learn others.


      Originally posted by Psyk
      ... What's currently an IN language is bound to change in a few years so it's not much good if that's all you can do.
      A good programmer adapts and changes with the times and trends. Otherwise you'll end up like the dinosaurs.

      Originally posted by Psyk
      ... I've been taught haskell, not because it's actually used much in the industry, but because it's an example of a functional language.
      That's exactly what OOT is. It was made for educational purposes. But from learning it (and actually using it), I have built IRC type programs, MSN style chat programs, Multiplayer games, Music players (like winamp and WM Player), various games of all genres, my own version of MSPaint, and many others.



      Also, clearz; there are still lots of Colleges that teach Perl, if not Universities.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Psyk
        Really universities shouldn't teach specific languages, they should teach all the programming concepts you need to learn any language you need. What's currently an IN language is bound to change in a few years so it's not much good if that's all you can do.

        I've been taught haskell, not because it's actually used much in the industry, but because it's an example of a functional language.
        When you think about it we are in the business of logical problem solving and your post is neither of these. I mean WTF I even had to look up 'haskell' in Wikipedia. Not only has your Uni been illogical by teaching yous some half ***** language but they have failed to solve the problem that you are gonna go out into the real world one day and have to use a REAL language.

        Originally posted by Boinga
        Also, clearz; there are still lots of Colleges that teach Perl, if not Universities.
        Im sure there is but then again not all colleges can afford to pay for professors that try and keep up with the times.

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          #34
          VB.NET = VB7 (or ==, for the c-oriented people )

          Originally posted by Psyk
          Seems to me that VB.NET and C# only really differ in the syntax.
          C# has a select few tricks up its sleeve that VB.NET doesn't. VB.NET has slightly more editor support.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Boinga
            I would have to disagree on that point good sir.
            That's actually kind of hard to do. It's one thing to know the theory behind it. But it's another to actually go and code. Anyone can easily come up with the logic and theory behind a game and game play. But if you don't know any languages, there's no way you can go and code it.
            If you were not taught any language, how would you go about learning it? It would take you forever. That's like throwing a dictionary at someone who doesn't speak english and saying "Here, learn it yourself".
            Maybe I didn't explain myself properly. We are taught actual languages, but ones that easily lead onto other languages.

            When you think about it we are in the business of logical problem solving and your post is neither of these. I mean WTF I even had to look up 'haskell' in Wikipedia. Not only has your Uni been illogical by teaching yous some half ***** language but they have failed to solve the problem that you are gonna go out into the real world one day and have to use a REAL language.
            I never said that it was the only language we've been taught. We've also covered C and Java. I'm probably never going to use Haskell outside of university but I might use Python or Ruby which apparently are similar to haskell in some ways. I don't know anything about either of those so I'm not sure how true that is but even if doing haskell was a waste of time, not much time was spent learning it. It focuses more on C and Java.

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              #36
              I'm with you, psyk. Of course you need a language before you can gain experience. But learning the concepts in an abstract form gives you a much better idea of what you're doing in any language, and means that the experience you will gain will be gained attempting useful/sane things.

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                #37
                Originally posted by sweavo
                I'm with you, psyk. Of course you need a language before you can gain experience. But learning the concepts in an abstract form gives you a much better idea of what you're doing in any language, and means that the experience you will gain will be gained attempting useful/sane things.
                What's interesting about the course I'm on is that we aren't taught C++ but we will most likely be expected to use it at some point. But if you know C and understand OOP (from Java) then with a bit of online documentation learning C++ should be fairly easy.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by clearz
                  Im sure there is but then again not all colleges can afford to pay for professors that try and keep up with the times.
                  lol. Touchée.


                  Originally posted by Psyk
                  Maybe I didn't explain myself properly. We are taught actual languages, but ones that easily lead onto other languages.
                  Yeah, that's generally how it's done.


                  Originally posted by Psyk
                  ... I'm probably never going to use Haskell outside of university but I might use Python or Ruby which apparently are similar to haskell in some ways. I don't know anything about either of those so I'm not sure how true that is but even if doing haskell was a waste of time ...
                  Unless you plan to do alot of scripting for crappy Blender, you won't be using python, like, ever. Python is a horrible language. As for haskell, I've never heard of it, but I'm sure it's garbage too, heh.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by Boinga
                    As for haskell, I've never heard of it, but I'm sure it's garbage too, heh.
                    How, uh... *scientific* of you...

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                      #40
                      oddly enough, i'm not that old (30) but the only courses available at the colleges in my area were in RPG, COBOL, and BASIC. (at least, 11 years ago, when I was attending college)

                      Honestly, rather scary.

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                        #41
                        Duh. The educational system is traditionally 10 years behind on current events.

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