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    AutoLadders and paths questions.

    With AutoLadder paths should you see paths from the ladder icons with arrows pointing just from the icons or should there also be arrows pointing to the icons. Also if you click on the AutoLadder icons you see a big red directional arrow (similar to the arrow of the LadderVolume) pointing at right angles to the AutoLadder path. Do these have to oriented for the AutoLadder to work? If so how?

    #2
    There should be directional arrows from and to the ladder actors to the surrounding path nodes and a single light purple or pink line from one ladder actor to the other. And YES, the red arrows are very important. Personally, I have never had much luck with autoladder. I add them manually. Here's how I do them.

    First I add the Static Mesh for the ladder and open the property box and under collision and set bBlocknonZeroExtentTraces=False. If there is no wall behind the mesh then add a blocking volume just behind it.

    Second I add the ladder volume. Open the property box for the volume and expand LadderVolume. Set bAutoPath=False. Now this is were your first red arrow comes into play. The red arrow for the ladder volume must face the ladder mesh being climbed. To do this right you must enter numerical values in the yaw (laddervolume property box/ laddervolume/ WallDir/ Yaw). Use the following values: 180degrees=32768 90degrees=16384 or 49152 for left or right.

    Next add the ladder actors found at Actor/Navigation Point/ SmallNavigationPoint/Ladder. The center of the ladder actor must be within the ladder volume to work properly. Now comes the second set of red arrows. They must point away from the ladder mesh and in the opposite direction of the ladder volume. Do this by using the same numerical values as the ladder volume in the ladder actor property box under movement/ rotation/ yaw.

    Now rebuild paths and you should have arrows to and from path nodes to the ladder actors and a light purple line between the ladder actors. If not try adjusting the height a little and if needed use forced paths. Forced paths can be done if the ladder actors are added manually but NOT with autoladder. Though I have never needed to force paths myself. Forced paths don't work going to an autoladder because the autoladders Object/Name will change everytime you rebuild paths and it won't let you set it.

    This method has worked for me several times in the past. The only problem I have encountered is in the map I am presently working on. I posted a question about this with the thread named Stuck Bots on Ladder.

    This is all I can tell you and everything I have learned from experience so far. I hope it helps.

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      #3
      Thank you, SH Maximus, this helps greatly.:up: :up:

      Comment


        #4
        Oops. I did forget to mention one thing about the ladder volume height and ladder actor heights. As S-Dot reminded me in another thread. The ladder volume should reach all the way to the ground and and extent above the next level atleast the height of the largest NPC that will use the ladder. I usuall place the lower ladder actor at the same height at the pathnodes and place the top ladder actor so that it is atleast 96 if not 128 units above the next level. Sorry.

        You might already know this but just in case.

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          #5
          Originally posted by SH Maximus
          Oops. I did forget to mention one thing about the ladder volume height and ladder actor heights. As S-Dot reminded me in another thread. The ladder volume should reach all the way to the ground and and extent above the next level atleast the height of the largest NPC that will use the ladder. I usuall place the lower ladder actor at the same height at the pathnodes and place the top ladder actor so that it is atleast 96 if not 128 units above the next level. Sorry.

          You might already know this but just in case.
          My ladder volume is on the floor and I figured out the height thing above the ladder while running some tests yesterday. Looks like the problem is the 1) water volume in which the NPCs are in from which they have to use the ladder — they just won't, and 2) possibly the distance between a pickup and the base of the ladder — too close seems not to be good.

          Oh well. Nobody likes bots anyway.

          Comment


            #6
            if you play as a spectator and you type in 'showdebug' you can actually see what the selected bot is 'thinking'

            Also you can always 'force' the path by typing in the name (see in the object section of its properties) of the desired pathnode or other actor into the Navigation / Force paths section.

            For the water you could add a blocking volume under the ladder inside the water (well I know its unreal)

            Try to lower the collission radius of the pickup if it is too close. (well this may not help but its worth a try).

            Bots are very good using ladders usually if you set them up right. Though it may take a while to find out what is wrong.

            Comment


              #7
              What exactly are the bots doing or not doing? Are they having problems using the ladder or just ignoring it? If they are ignoring it, there just might not be anything interesting enough for them to go that way.

              Can you give a more detailed explanation of what you are doing? How deep is the water? Is the ladder against a wall or in mid air? What is the problem with pickups? Is the ladder actors not building paths to nearby pickups and how close are they?

              Give me a detailed description of the ladder environment and the problems your having. I'll see if I can figure something out by duplicating it in a test room. I've been too busy this week but I have time this weekend. I'm going to be messing with ladders this weekend trying to figure a few things out myself.

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                #8
                Here is what I have found out so far. The set up is player start-->path node-->super health--->ladder--->super shield. Lots of goodies for the bot to go after. The player start is in a small tunnel--->chasm--->upper level. When this is built without a water volume in the chasm everything connects in both directions and a bot happily climbs up and down the ladder. When a water volume is added in the chasm the path from the ladder to the path node is built missing the super health. No path is built to the ladder. If the bot happens upon the ladder it can't climb it > 50% of the time. Clearly a water volume alters the path build. This happens with AutoLadder and a manually placed ladder.

                One solution that I can think of is to build a platform at the water volume surface and have the ladder go up from there. I can't try that at present since I don't have access to my PC this weekend. If I get a chance Monday I'll try to put up some screen shots of the path builds I'm talking about.

                Oh. One other thing. With a manually installed ladder you can force a path to the ladder from a path node but in a water volume the bot still doesn't negotiate the ladder > 50% of the time.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I set up a small map with 2 corridors 256x256x1024 at different heights and joined them with a vertical shaft the same size. I placed a 128x128 ladder volume from the floor all the way to the ceiling of the vertical shaft. I set up the actors as you stated player start--->pathnode--->superhealth--->ladder--->super shield--->pathnode. Everything worked fine.

                  Then I added a water volume 32 units deep with a fluid surface on top and had the same problems you ran into.

                  My solution to fix. Change the setup to player start--->super health--->pathnode--->ladder--->pathnode--->super shield. Then force paths from the ladder actors to the nearest pathnode. Then everything worked perfectly and the bot was happily climbing the ladder both directions.

                  Another thing, you stated paths are built from the ladder to the pathnode bypassing the superhealth. This is usually caused by pathnodes and pickups being too close together. Try spreading them apart a little. Make the tunnel a little longer if possible and spread them out.

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