Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lack of Detail

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Lack of Detail

    I am so sick of making maps with perfect emitters, contraptions and models ect... I could pretty much make almost anything in UnrealED. But my layouts and detail always suck. Is there anyway to improve this? Besides staring down one of epic's maps and end up copying it? I have been mapping for 1.5 years and my detail has always sucked. Either that or my map look random because it won't go with what the map is supposed to be.

    #2
    Well, you could always look at custom maps for layout and some detail inspiration. Also, for detail, you could take alook at some other games with good detail, to get some ideas.

    Comment


      #3
      I suffer the same problems. I honestly don't know what to tell you... although I can tell you that perhaps studying engineering may give you some insight/ideas. For instance, you might learn about real-life supports and beams and such, and may get some ideas as to how to incorporate such tiny details in a map. Its the tiny details that add up to make a nice looking map. However, I'm in the mind that a map is only made up 25% architecturally. IMO, a map is:

      25% details
      25% design (layout)
      25% textures
      25% lighting

      I'm basically talking about the map itself... its design and appearance, not considering botpathing and stuff. So when you see it this way, you realize that actually only 50% of the map is the actual frame design. Lighting and textures can play a HUGE factor as well IMO. I've seen maps with weak architecture but whacky good texture/lighting jobs. You can feign good architecture if your textures are good enough. On the other hand, you can get by without the best textures/lighting if you have insanely good architecture. But I'd recommend striking a balance...

      I should probably shut up now, though... I'm still a noob myself and I probably don't know what i'm talking about, just my two cents though.

      Comment


        #4
        I just want to live in a world where my map will be all over the servers because it's both beautiful and good with gameplay. But after about 2 years, I'm no where near that.

        Edit: The link shows the best details I ever made.
        http://knd.org.uk/images/507897d8506...6095ae3677.png

        Comment


          #5
          Me too. I find myself subconciaoulst browsing the static meshes hoping to find something to add a little pizzaz to my maps....maybe i make them to big....

          Comment


            #6
            The problem is, to be a fully successful mapper, you have to not only master UED and all of its abilities, but also master a secondary program such as Maya or 3DSM. You can only get good to a certain extent within UED... and mastering Maya or even 3DSM is much harder than UED.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Perfect Chaos
              The problem is, to be a fully successful mapper, you have to not only master UED and all of its abilities, but also master a secondary program such as Maya or 3DSM. You can only get good to a certain extent within UED... and mastering Maya or even 3DSM is much harder than UED.
              Yes. Envision a theme, create SMeshes, put them into Map. Adds a lot of Time and Work to the Map, but the results are worth it.

              Comment


                #8
                By having your own meshes, it's pretty much guaranteed to be original. If you use mostly stock meshes, you're inclined to put them in a way you've seen them in maps, or people will think it's unoriginal since they've seen them so much.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I know how to model, I'm a very good one, I probably model better than I do put good details on a map. Something I don't know how to do, is UV.

                  See, look at Tidu's sig, look at his maps. Nice lighting, a solid looking theme with perfect detail. Everytime I come out with a map it only gets like 100 downloads out of all the other maps getting like 3000 or 5000 just because my best screenshots of my **** map, show that it looks like ****. If you look in my screenshot I posted before, that's the best detail I ever put into a map.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Studying other maps is usually a good idea. I used to be a huge perfectionist, but if you look closely, you can find some pretty bad achritectural overlooks in many maps. The thing is, the average player simply will not notice. Now I've learned to ease up a little bit.

                    For layouts, turn off static mesh display and examine the BSP. See how things fit together, look closely to see if they always stay on grid, examine differently shaped rooms and how they incorporate the visual theme, etc.

                    Also remember that detail does not mean you have to have 1000 little static meshes covering a wall. Themes also contribute to the result of the architecture. For example, compare DM-Rankin to DM-IronDiety. IronDiety has tons of 4000+ poly meshes everywhere, but Rankin only has a few relatively low-poly meshes and a ton of flat walls. Oddly enough, Rankin looks fine.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ever think about asking a womans opinion on the looks of things.

                      I know it may seem a little out of the ordinary but at times we can have good ideas on how somethings may look better with just a pinch of this or a pinch of that. Now that is just my womanly two cents worth.

                      Of course any of the maps I have done are not among or even close to becoming close to being among any top favorites but I have only been doing this for a few months so I still have high hopes. : ) ~


                      DK

                      Comment


                        #12
                        it's hard to come up with a layout that's unique, and i think layout is worth more than eye candy. i've made 2 maps, the first wasnt much. the second had a bit more extravagant layout, but to make it what i really want it to be, ima have to make quite a few static mesh. finding time to do it is what's the biggest trouble for me, especially when i have an idea and i cant work it out right away. I've also got another in the works that i think will have a truly interesting look/feel/layout. i'm going to try and make this map over half custom mesh. for me, i think it's about learning, and most importantly, learning from your mistakes. I always try and do something that will help me learn ued/uscript/maya. that way, if the map isnt what i excpect, i can at least say, "i learned how to do... and that will help the next one be better."

                        Comment


                          #13
                          i think that since gameplay > everything else, the layout phase of a map shouldn't be glossed over. i've found that if i worry about looks or keep trying to fit a layout into a theme, the layout suffers. it's much easier, IMO, to fit a theme into a good layout. and if you fail at the theme, at least you still have a great playing map! i would say that it's a good idea to keep in mind that certain shapes and room types are better suited to certain themes. so, if your layout is very square-ish, a tech theme might suit it quite well.

                          it's also crucial to remember that it might take AWHILE before you have a layout that you love. i've been working on a new map and I posted the first pass alpha layout on October 22nd. I'm now on alpha7, with countless tweaks, changes, improvements and deletions in between. don't be afraid to take your time with layouts.

                          depending on how serious you want to get, feedback is also a pretty crucial part of the process. i don't know what i would do without feedback. getting a solid idea of where weapons and pickups should go, from a lot of different types of players, will really help make your map's gameplay solid. 1on1, TDM, instagib, etc....all those points of view help make a map better.

                          and those people always manage find a mistake or two....or seven.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Lack of Detail

                            Originally posted by Zippy38
                            I am so sick of making maps with perfect emitters, contraptions and models ect... I could pretty much make almost anything in UnrealED. But my layouts and detail always suck. Is there anyway to improve this? Besides staring down one of epic's maps and end up copying it? I have been mapping for 1.5 years and my detail has always sucked. Either that or my map look random because it won't go with what the map is supposed to be.
                            1. Try designing on paper first.
                            2. Make a small map so you can work on the details more easily.
                            3. Use three dimensions... ramps, catwalks, balconies, tunnels, etc.
                            4. Like CliffyB says: the flow of a map should coil upon itself like a snake, so that wherever you go, you will end up in a nice area, never in a dead end. The flow of the map and the pickups should lead the player through the map.
                            5. Use a good texture pack that's designed to work as a unit, with a theme that you like.
                            6. Use lighting variation, typically two or three light colors are needed. One color, i.e. white or off-white all thru a map looks bad. Use atleast two different, contrasting but complimentary colored lights copied all through the map, with some off-white lighting for the primary lights.
                            7. Use a nice backdrop/skybox which matches your theme. This is often what lends a map it's atmosphere.
                            8. Use details such as trim and pillars. Architecture using BSP is where it all starts.
                            9. Use smeshes only if they fit in the map. They're overrated, and they don't make a good map themselves; Good flow, architecture and lighting make a good map.

                            I could go on and on... mostly because like you, I didn't like any of the maps I made for the first year or so after I started. Eventually I nailed it. But don't be suprised if new technology comes and bites you in the butt so you have to re-learn everything (UT -> UT2003/2004; UT2004 -> UT2007).

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X