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    #16
    Originally posted by meleemaster
    now if someone will just make some warhammer player models.....
    I suggest you keep an eye on UT40K, then. They have awesome stuff cooking.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by MisterTrioxin
      Ok, I just playtested it in Instant Action.
      Thanks! Really appreciate it.

      Originally posted by MisterTrioxin
      1. Turning while going in reverse seems to be messed up. You Press right and go left and vice versa.
      When you're driving a wheeled vehicle (say, Hellbender), turning the steering wheel to the right turns the forward wheels to the right. No matter if you're going forward or in reverse. This is natural to us because we see it in Real Life and the game adopts it perfectly.

      When you're driving a treaded vehicle, things are different. Treaded vehicles can turn in place. Steering to the right causes the vehicle to rotate to the right. I have simply kept this behavior regardless of the direction the Helios is travelling in. This may strike you as unnatural because the game has not adopted it. In fact, the Goliath has special code to reverse its steering when driving backwards, so that it drives more like a car than a tank. One could argue that it is the Goliath that was messed up.

      This is still up in the air, though. I might feel like going the Goliath way for the next beta, just to try stuff out and get a feel for the possibilities. For the moment, I like the distinct handling the Helios now has.

      Originally posted by MisterTrioxin
      2. It's pretty much impossible to aim the main missle salvos properly. The ideal way to aim it would be to have secondary fire bring up something like the SPMA's secondary fire; where you get a top-down POV showing the vehicle's maximum range, and aiming reticle . Then have primaryfire fire the missles within the selected area.
      Top-down view is the SPMA's sole territory, for which it uses a special camera that is anchored mid-air. This camera can be shot down, thus counterbalancing the SPMA's range and firepower.

      I actually have very little problems aiming Whirlwind missiles. Like the SPMA, the Helios also has cameras to aid your aim. The Whirlwind missiles are equipped with cameras. Using Altfire launches a missile with its camera turned on. You can see where it goes, even if it disappears into the distancefog, and see how far off-target it lands. Then you simply adjust your aim and try again.

      Whirlwind missiles are not noted for their unerring accuracy, so there's still a bit of guesstimation involved.

      Originally posted by MisterTrioxin
      3. Only being able to enter the vehicle through the door (which auto-closes when someone's in the driver's seat) is just insane. No bots will ever let you enter it; and if playing online, everyone who wants to get in will have to get in, and immediatly switch seats to let other people in. Also, if you try exiting the vehicle while someone's in the driver's seat you're stuck on the inside of the vehicleuntil either the driver leaves or the thing explodes.
      There are two ways of loading multiple people into the Helios:
      1. Allow everyone to gather in the cargo bay before closing the doors.
      2. Let them use the roof entrance. You can enter when standing on the roof. Getting onto the roof may involve a tiny bit of trickjumping, but is not harder than jumping onto flying Mantas.
      Bots are a bit of a problem, but that is not exclusive to the Helios. I'll see if I can get the first bot in to move to one of the passenger seats for a while before driving off alone. The Cicada has such a feature, if I'm not mistaken.

      In the prototype, the driver could control the front turret (now the camera) and the launcher would be controlled by a passenger. This left the driver some free keys (Altfire, Jump, Duck) that could be assigned to opening and/or closing the bay doors. Now that the front turret is just a harmless camera and the missile can no longer be fired while the vehicle is driving, I saw little point in keeping the two seats separated and gave the launcher to the driver. A small problem with this is that it did not leave me a key for controlling the bay door. If you have suggestions, I would like to hear them.

      Originally posted by MisterTrioxin
      4. The camera seat seems pretty useless. Maybe make it so if you click somwhere from that seat the Lascannons auto-target it.
      The camera can only swivel left-right and cannot aim up or down at all. It would be almost impossible to designate targets with it.

      I like the idea, though. I'll give it some more thought.

      Originally posted by MisterTrioxin
      5. Enemy bots driving Land Raiders always seem to ram right into the side of your Landraider and just keep pushing you around. You can't reverse, turn, or get away. You just keep getting pushed around in circles and blasted by their lascannons.
      Sounds like good strategy on account of the bots. But, erm... that's how the Helios works. I plan to revise its (many ) collision boxes, but if that fails, how could I "fix" this?

      Of course, you could always enter the lascannon sponson and shoot right back at them. Or climb into the command seat and flak them, leaving the Helios fire control systems to handle the lascannons.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by TheBladeRoden
        seems to cause more slowdown than the other vehicles.

        really spikes in Kupdatecontacts and Kworldstepsafetime
        I'll buy that! It currently has no less than 40 repulsors and creates clouds of particles. I have tried to excercise a modicum of restraint, but I have not reached the optimization stage yet.

        Could you tell me how you measured this type of performance? I'd love to hear!

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Thisticstic
          I had some trouble entering the vehicle even by entering the cargo hold (which i had to crouch to enter) it seems really really picky about where you can enter.
          Hmm... that's odd. I never have to crouch. If you link your Link Gun to the Helios from inside the cargo hold, it'll attach to the vehicle's center. The entry sphere is centered around that point. It does not reach the floor, but it does stick through the roof.

          Originally posted by Thisticstic
          I kept getting pushed around by an opponent Helios thus could not fire the primary rocket, also inertia stops me from firing and theres no brakes on this thing, it would be great if pressing some key (i know the jump key is used for power) while your moving jams on the brakes so that you can stop to shoot.
          Uhm... sure, but which key?

          If I decide to turn the launcher back into a passenger seat, I'll be sure to give the driver brakes and a key to open and close the bay doors.

          Originally posted by Thisticstic
          It seems to trap a lot of players under it and spawns slightly into the floor, bouncing very comically
          I guess that happens because the Goliath spawn points are placed pretty low to the ground. The Helios is quite a bit taller than the Goliath. I should look into this sometime and see if I can make the Helios spawn higher.

          Originally posted by Thisticstic
          Other than that it is a most magnificent beast!!! Cant wait for the final version
          Me neither! And thanks for the feedback, it's very much appreciated!

          Comment


            #20
            Re: More ScreenShots:

            Originally posted by eviL<3
            AnimGifs: No 1. (1,31 MB) | No 2. (1,92 MB)
            Thanks for the cool screens!

            I was secretly hoping you would make some animations! I tried to make a few myself, but they were too big. Unfortunately, your animations seem offline at the moment.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Xyx:
              If you have suggestions, I would like to hear them.
              What about the weaponSwitch keys?

              Originally posted by Xyx:
              The camera can only swivel left-right and cannot aim up or down at all. It would be almost impossible to designate targets with it.
              Y'know, it's not really a "camera" per se - that huge chunk is s'posed to be an extensive sensor suite, used to direct the fire of the missile launcher; it should be able to detect targets through walls and terrain. Of course, nobody wants a wallhack-on-wheels, so what about some kind of locator "ping" overlay, like the Chaos Sniper Rifle?

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Xyx
                I suggest you keep an eye on UT40K, then. They have awesome stuff cooking.
                Actually I've been watching their work for some time now. That mod is definitely one to look forward to.

                Comment


                  #23
                  The fact of the matter is that both the aiming and door controls (or lack thereof at the moment) are not newbie friendly at all; which it has to be if you hope to see anyone be able to use it online. Along this line, you don't want to have more buttons needed than the vehicles that came with the game, because anyone who's seeing this vehicle for the first time in a server won't have the button mapped (or the option to map it if they didn't install it the regular way).

                  AIMING: While I understand what you were saying about the whirlwind's aiming, the thing is that you have little trouble aiming it because you know the ins and outs of how it aims. It took me almost 7 shots before I could come anywhere close to hitting a node in Torlan that wasn't in direct view. And then if I moved the missile-camera a little bit while in flight, I messed up the next shot's aim and had to start all over.

                  I still think using the SPMA aiming is the way to go. Just have the whirlwind send up a Skull-Probe instead of the little satelite (possibly with twice the HP, so at least 2 avrils are needed to take it down). Maybe even give it a little "I die again for the Emperor" sound for when it gets shot down. Aside from being a whole hell load easier to aim for everyone, it also means that you only have to use the mouse buttons and directional keys to aim.

                  This leaves the Jump and Crouch keys open to be used for opening and closing the door, and gives the vehicle the artilliary feel that it should have, as opposed to feeling like a regular tank with wacky aiming. (not to mention the fact that you can just rip the entire code straight from the SPMA, saving a little time)

                  DOOR CONTROLS: I think I've got a simple way to both make the doors less of a hassle for everyone and make the vehicle much more usefull.

                  Have it so that in order to get into a gunner/driver/camera seat, to just enter the normal way; going up to it and pressing Use.
                  "But what about the cargo door?" you might be asking yourself. It's simple: make it into a "mobile room" with a door (I wish I knew the technical way to explain it in engine terms).
                  What this means is that aside from acting as a mobile missile launcher and las-***-kicker, it also acts as a troop carrier (as they do in WH40K).

                  IE: the drivers/gunners just pop in the normal way, but as an added bonus, people wanting to get from A to B in style can walk into the cargo hold (or whatever it's called) and hope that the vehicle doesn't get into too much trouble before they get there (as there are no windows).

                  I really think that these two fairly simple changes would help this beast be all that it can be, as well as making it much much easier for people that just come across the vehicle on a server, etc.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    it no worky i put all of the stuff in the right places but it doesnt show up in the mutators list or carlaucher

                    Comment


                      #25
                      me need help:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Ambulance, try using the Worm Motorpool mutator. If it doesn't appear in the vehicle list, you probably forgot to install a file for the vehicle.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          thx:bulb:

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Xyx - I havent had the chance to play with the current release of the vehicle yet, but I liked the past ones.

                            I have to correct your logic about tracked vehicle steering though. (by my screenname, you could probably tell I've driven a few) In an M1, when you turn the controls left, the tank holds the left side track in place or slows it down which causes the tank to turn left. If you are driving in reverse its the same way, it holds the left side track, and the tank turns to the left in reverse. I'm not sure what you are talking about when you have it doing the opposite.

                            Just my 2 cents though. Great work.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Mr_Rose
                              What about the weaponSwitch keys?
                              The Next/Previous Weapon keys control the distance between the vehicle and the screen... That's default for all ONS vehicles.

                              Originally posted by Mr_Rose
                              Y'know, it's not really a "camera" per se - that huge chunk is s'posed to be an extensive sensor suite, used to direct the fire of the missile launcher; it should be able to detect targets through walls and terrain. Of course, nobody wants a wallhack-on-wheels, so what about some kind of locator "ping" overlay, like the Chaos Sniper Rifle?
                              Ping overlay... will check that out!

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by MisterTrioxin
                                The fact of the matter is that both the aiming and door controls (or lack thereof at the moment) are not newbie friendly at all; which it has to be if you hope to see anyone be able to use it online. Along this line, you don't want to have more buttons needed than the vehicles that came with the game, because anyone who's seeing this vehicle for the first time in a server won't have the button mapped (or the option to map it if they didn't install it the regular way).
                                It currently requires no special buttons, only Up/Down/Left/Right, the two fire buttons and 1-5 for seat switching. I certainly plan to keep it that way!

                                Originally posted by MisterTrioxin
                                AIMING: While I understand what you were saying about the whirlwind's aiming, the thing is that you have little trouble aiming it because you know the ins and outs of how it aims. It took me almost 7 shots before I could come anywhere close to hitting a node in Torlan that wasn't in direct view. And then if I moved the missile-camera a little bit while in flight, I messed up the next shot's aim and had to start all over.

                                I still think using the SPMA aiming is the way to go. Just have the whirlwind send up a Skull-Probe instead of the little satelite (possibly with twice the HP, so at least 2 avrils are needed to take it down). Maybe even give it a little "I die again for the Emperor" sound for when it gets shot down. Aside from being a whole hell load easier to aim for everyone, it also means that you only have to use the mouse buttons and directional keys to aim.

                                This leaves the Jump and Crouch keys open to be used for opening and closing the door, and gives the vehicle the artilliary feel that it should have, as opposed to feeling like a regular tank with wacky aiming. (not to mention the fact that you can just rip the entire code straight from the SPMA, saving a little time)
                                The Whirlwind's inaccuracy will make hitting anything across the map in less than 7 shots quite unlikely, but when you realize that is about double the maximum range of the SPMA, and that the SPMA is twice as inaccurate to begin with, it's not so bad. And if you really need to hit that node dead-on, the solution is simple: either move in or have patience.

                                It does indeed take a bit of skill, but no more than the link gun or the Manta. Certainly more than the Goliath, but hey, what doesn't? I think a small learning curve is better than no learning curve.

                                I could have copy/pasted the SPMA code right from the start. The thought has occurred to me, but I decided against it. I want more originality than that, and I certainly don't feel the Helios is just a tank with whacky aiming. Do you really feel it is? Along the same line, I wouldn't want it to be just a SPMA with more protection either.

                                Originally posted by MisterTrioxin
                                DOOR CONTROLS: I think I've got a simple way to both make the doors less of a hassle for everyone and make the vehicle much more usefull.

                                Have it so that in order to get into a gunner/driver/camera seat, to just enter the normal way; going up to it and pressing Use.
                                "But what about the cargo door?" you might be asking yourself. It's simple: make it into a "mobile room" with a door (I wish I knew the technical way to explain it in engine terms).
                                What this means is that aside from acting as a mobile missile launcher and las-***-kicker, it also acts as a troop carrier (as they do in WH40K).

                                IE: the drivers/gunners just pop in the normal way, but as an added bonus, people wanting to get from A to B in style can walk into the cargo hold (or whatever it's called) and hope that the vehicle doesn't get into too much trouble before they get there (as there are no windows).
                                This is certainly food for thought! I must admit I dislike the way UT vehicles are entered, especially compared to the Halo vehicles with their custom animations. This prompted me to experiment with the bay doors.

                                Perhaps a happy medium is in order. How about this:
                                • The vehicle can be entered from all sides. It has handholds and a top hatch, so we can assume those are used.
                                • The driver is placed in the cargo hold when exiting. That causes the doors to open.
                                • Passengers exiting while there is no driver are placed in the cargo hold. The doors should still be open in such cases.
                                • Passengers exiting while the vehicle is being driven are placed in the command seat on the roof.
                                This way, everyone should be able to enter and exit at any time.

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