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**legacy-eliot** · 11-16-2004, 10:08 PM

funny, i almost thought you was not to goin to make new assault maps but anyway you did ^^ goin to try it out when its Released

**legacy-Nuclear hazard** · 11-16-2004, 10:48 PM

could you please make the end an exit for a beautiful outer world?

also dot make too dark

**legacy-Scorch** · 11-16-2004, 11:24 PM

Cool.....
About when will the first beta be here?

**Angel_Mapper** · 11-16-2004, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by eliot
funny, i almost thought you was not to goin to make new assault maps

Correction. Trials maps != Assault maps.

**legacy-Princess_Frosty** · 11-16-2004, 11:54 PM

Most of the spare time i decide to comit to mapping ends up modeling for my more professional maps, used in mods like hackerz and whatever team i join next.

That takes a great deal more time to do than mapping simpler assault maps and so I like to squeeze other smaller projects in when I can.

By definition assault maps use the assault game mode, since all the trials maps so far are for Assault, i would have to say that they are in fact assault maps.

The tricking community in UT2004 is great, better than most because its not so hardcore as other tricking, its more relaxed and maps tend to be easier and a good to socialise online with. Some people plain dont like trials maps, their makers or people who play them, i've yet to figure out why.

Im going to try and update this thread in a few days with some new screens.

**legacy-eliot** · 11-17-2004, 12:00 AM

HERE SOME SCREENS OF IT JSUT OF YOUR SITE TO MAKE IT BIGGER AND LET ALL THE PEOPLE SEE IT

The start of TOTII is where the original TOT ended.

Although something is seriously wrong!

One of the first mazes, straight out of the film Cube, this maze will be my most complex to date.

**Angel_Mapper** · 11-17-2004, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Princess_Frosty
By definition assault maps use the assault game mode, since all the trials maps so far are for Assault, i would have to say that they are in fact assault maps.

You can also make an ONS map without the power cores and nodes, but you couldn't call that ONS. That would be DM. Race and trials maps are not Assault.

**legacy-Meroin** · 11-17-2004, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by Angel_Mapper
Race and trials maps are not Assault.

Yes they are! Especially racemaps. They both use objectives, which are unique to the Assault gametype. What else is there to distinguish them from AS?

**legacy-mackron** · 11-17-2004, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by Meroin
Yes they are! Especially racemaps. They both use objectives, which are unique to the Assault gametype. What else is there to distinguish them from AS?

You don't even know what you're talking about.
I agree with Angel Mapper 100%. :up:

**legacy-MarZer** · 11-17-2004, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Meroin
Yes they are!

Lies. Absolute ****ing lies.

Assault was created in UT. It was a gametype that featured a few choice maps that had both A) Gameplay and B) COHERENCE. They made sense. They had stories. They pitted two teams against each other in a battle to capture or protect objectives that flowed from one to the next. Assault brought the structured mayhem of single player games to multiplayer.

The retail UT2004 assault maps do this as well. While UT2004 Assault was met with a much weaker response than UT's, it still achieves the same thing. Mackron, myself and other mappers that have been willing to put in a little more effort than is required to hit Cube Builder and Subtract have actually created some Assault maps that fit that same idea: structured, ordered and coherent assault maps.

Race and trial maps are NOT assault maps. They are race and trial maps.

Just as Angel said, Trials maps != Assault Maps. To enhance that:

Code:

function CheckMap(Map M)
{
	if(TrialsMaps != AssaultMaps && M.bIsTrialsMap)
		IsA****ingParasite(M.Author);
}

**legacy-Princess_Frosty** · 11-17-2004, 01:12 PM

All Assault maps are races because both teams race against the clock.

Rather than one team defending and one attacking, both teams attack with no defence.

At the end of the day assault was ment to be whatever you make of it, theres many different types of objectives in the code allowing for pretty much whatever you want.

Trying to belittle trials maps because their makers dont often use anything more than BSP for the geometry, or other pre-made SM's doesn't mean they're bad maps. Most of them lack eye candy but anyone who knows ANYTHING about mapping or even gaming, knows that the fun lies in the gameplay.

Im sick and tired of people trying to put down tricking like its inferiour, people moan about mapper wasting their time on tricking maps, then they complain that they're **** anyways.

Assault game mode, assault game type, assault map, simple as that, you can put any spin on it you want, thats the whole idea of assault.

I think other mappers are ****** of with the fact that most tricking maps get played far more than anything else, especially soon after their release, i can confirm that due to TOT's popularity. And that fact that it, all in all, took a few weeks to make and update to V4.

As for bunging a few BSP cuts around, its not that simple, try making a good trials map and you'll know, getting the jumping and the timing right takes a lot of time and effort.

I COULD make a trials map look good, thats not hard for me, I COULD make it a traditional assault map according to all your specifications, storyline (why, where, what etc) One team defending and allowed to shoot, other team loads of shield pickups to allow them a chance.

It would still be Assault and it would STILL be a tricking map, so just shaddap and let it go, whatever narks you of about tricking maps.

**legacy-MarZer** · 11-17-2004, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Princess_Frosty
anyone who knows ANYTHING about mapping or even gaming, knows that the fun lies in the gameplay.

Hmmm.... that's pretty funny considering the three antagonists here, Mackron, myself and to a lesser extent Angel Mapper ARE ALL MSUC FINALISTS - I think we might know MORE THAN A LITTLE ABOUT MAPPING. Are you saying we don't understand what makes maps fun?

Using the trite "All Assault maps are races because both teams race against the clock". Is just stupid. Nobody denied that assault is inherently a race. It is, however, not a literal race, in which a bunch of bored fools run through some corridors or mindlessly spam skymines at each other whilst trying to jump some stupid ramp...

Besides, I actually liked your original idea. I spent a large amount of time messing about in that map. And for a very short time I even liked the original Hellbender Race! BUT - All the 49839569 duplicates and 'new editions' and other random ripoffs are polluting the Assault community with maps THAT ARE NOT ASSAULT MAPS.

And no, assault was not meant to be whatever we make of it (this isn't backyard-philosophy-101), assault was meant to be what EPIC - who incidentally were it's creators - made it to be. As I said before: Assault Maps == Trials maps? LIES.

**legacy-DarKGamer** · 11-17-2004, 01:26 PM

I agree with you Frosty, a map is what you make it. Your ToT maps gave me great skills that lead me to be a better player. I hate how people down the race maps and trial maps. They are fun to play because they teach you to play the game and to be a more 1337 player. Race maps helped me do thing in ONS that I have never though imaginable, trial maps do the same in the other gametypes. I once tried making an trial map, they are harder to make than any other map because of the fact that you have to make sure everything is exactly right or you can't progress through them. Other mapper hate trial maps because they say they are too plain and so they must be simple to make. Some trial maps are, but definatly not ToT! Just think how your DM or CTF games go, how the player are soo good, how you have seen people do "impossible" jumps and tricks that you could almost never do. most of these people learned these skills not from just playing the game over and over, they learned them from trial maps. About the comment that Trial maps aren't Assualt maps, look at the prefix before the mapname... it's AS and from where I come from AS stands for assualt. The trial maps are usually the most innovative as well. Ok, now flame away at my comment at my expence as I know you people will do..

**legacy-Princess_Frosty** · 11-17-2004, 01:48 PM

You were in the MSUC final, so what?

Had I entered a map myself and placed somewhere, then that might have some comparable value, as it stands, it does not.

However for several weeks after its release my TOT-v3 map was hosted more than any other assault map out there, even the official ones, coming in with a few more servers at peak than convoy which i recall being the most popular map at the time. And its still played today with at least a handfull of servers running it at any one time. Its certainly been played at least the same amount, if not more played than any assault map entered for the MSUC.

Are you saying we don't understand what makes maps fun?

What is at question here is ability to make TRIALS maps, what makes them good, keeps peoples interests and keeps people hooked, wanting more, is very hard to achieve, believe it or not.

obody denied that assault is inherently a race. It is, however, not a literal race, in which a bunch of bored fools run through some corridors or mindlessly spam skymines at each other whilst trying to jump some stupid ramp...

But you continue to belittle trials maps, calling people who play them bored fools, you really think people play them because they're bored? LOL.

People play them because they enjoy the challenge, they race against themselfs to beat their own times, some people race against others to see who's better and faster, it has the same competative edge as any other UT2004 map. Clans play them to get their dodging skills up which is incredibly important in competative play.

BUT - All the 49839569 duplicates and 'new editions' and other random ripoffs are polluting the Assault community

Yes theres a lot of rip offs, ideas are re-done (often called stealing, although no such thing existis in tricking) and theres good and bad trials maps, however theres good and bad "normal" assault maps, and theres good and bad CTF maps, its no different.

And no, assault was not meant to be whatever we make of it (this isn't backyard-philosophy-101), assault was meant to be what EPIC - who incidentally were it's creators - made it to be.

You've missed the whole idea of assault, every single assault map for the origional game was different in theme, in style, in objectives, in storyline (if you can call it a storyline). And this is the idea of Assault, a set of very VERY basic rules allowing the mapper to make pretty much whatever they want. Which is what me and a few others have done.

Its a different style of assault, but its still assault.

Announcement

Temple Of Trials II [Update: 02/12/04 - Tiny Update]

Temple Of Trials II [Update: 02/12/04 - Tiny Update]

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