VCTF-RT-TrainCrossing v2

[meowcat]

I like the new terrain a lot! It looks a lot nicer than the old BSP (though I think the little Island in the middle needs some more cover and foliage ).

I agree with jefe's comments, especially regarding staticmesh usage. I think sticking with one or two types of crates/containers would give the map a much more unified theme, right now its all over the place (in addition to the performance slowdowns by accessing so many separate packages). Also, be careful about combining many static meshes into a new one, each separate part becomes its own rendering pass because there is no material comparison optimization (in other words, combining 100 staticmeshes that use the exact same texture will not become 1 big mesh with only 1 material, instead it will be one mesh with 100 materials (with 100 rendering passes from what I can tell!))

[UnShame]

Got new water and skybox textures for the map, thanks to Aberiu!
[shot]http://i.imgur.com/VobZ0lf.jpg[/shot]

[Wormbo]

*Clan textures. First the "Russian Tournament" textures are quite large, 1024x512. That's a bit much. And you used another one just for the level preview, which basically no one will ever see, why not use one of the other two? Rembo's server on every flag might be okay when on Rembo's server, but when you release a map to the public, it's not. Clan textures look unprofessional, especially when they are all over the map.

That reminds me of something I wanted to post long time ago.

[maxdamage]

Got new water and skybox textures for the map, thanks to Aberiu!
[shot]http://i.imgur.com/VobZ0lf.jpg[/shot]

Nice! Can't wait to see more screenshots of the revised map....

[UnShame]

I actually have a version ready to release, it's just that I'm holding it back because I wasn't able to deal with the low fps issue.
Turns out I'd have to redo a lot of geometry to bring it up - the bsp alone pushes the fps down to 60 (and with the new skybox I can't have a lot of fog to make up for it).
And I really don't want to commit to that, that's just too much work, and not just work, but work that I've already done before, so very tedious.
I think I'm just going to improve the little island in the middle, the idea was to put a lighthouse there, and then release the third beta as it is (so without fog and with fps all over the place).
Maybe some time in the future I'll get to redoing this map properly, because I've done so many things wrong with it, it's amazing really
Here are some screenshots (you can see that I remade the blue spawnpoint with mostly default textures, so no more of those hue-rotated ugly blue skins):
[shot]http://i.imgur.com/B7IUks7.jpg[/shot][shot]http://i.imgur.com/4Bw7M9m.jpg[/shot]

[shot]http://i.imgur.com/9sn7a1Q.jpg[/shot][shot]http://i.imgur.com/FU5CxDq.jpg[/shot]

[shot]http://i.imgur.com/A9CTtPO.jpg[/shot][shot]http://i.imgur.com/fq6QYvC.jpg[/shot]

[jefe]

It might look pretty without fog, but it is sorely needed to optimize the map. Also, it doesn't look like you removed the blue myleveled FarEast textures. Really, the best thing to do with those Asian restaurants is just use one or two blue and red textures on each side, and use neutral FarEast textures for the rest of them. This will reduce your texture usage a bit by removing 10 or so textures. As I mentioned before, reducing your texture usage on meshes will help, for example, AMDK's chairs and tables have a gray mottled texture, replace that with another dark texture used elswhere in your map. Even better, replace all of the textures on those meshes with similar textures already in use, and even betterer (hehe) remove those particular meshes entirely. I'm pretty sure you had benches elsewhere in the level, just put a couple of those on the balcony. There's a point where you have to sacrifice small details like those to make a level playable, and you're at that point.

I'd be willing to do some optimization on this map for you, but you'll have to agree to not undo my changes. It would most likely require fog and a different skybox, but I'll try some tricks before resorting to that.

[Sly.]

Small suggestion/compromise:
How about two versions? An optimized foggy one (justified by different weather) and this one?
Sure, it might be more work, but people who like eyecandy will have a version to play and people who need optimization (due to the high detail nature of this map) and eventually also server owners could use the foggy version.

[Baryonyx]

+1 to what Sly said.

[jefe]

Small suggestion/compromise:
How about two versions? An optimized foggy one (justified by different weather) and this one?
Sure, it might be more work, but people who like eyecandy will have a version to play and people who need optimization (due to the high detail nature of this map) and eventually also server owners could use the foggy version.

Yes, that makes sense. Before I would start on changing things like fog, I'd optimize just the texture usage and set culling on smallish meshes. That version would still have "eye candy" but should perform a bit better - at the very least the map file would be smaller. Only then would I proceed to changing the fog.

[UnShame]

Also, it doesn't look like you removed the blue myleveled FarEast textures.

I did though.
Also redid the boat and cut down on the box types a lot.

Sure, it might be more work, but people who like eyecandy will have a version to play and people who need optimization (due to the high detail nature of this map) and eventually also server owners could use the foggy version.

As I said, with the new skybox fog isn't an option.
The sides of the skybox aren't solid color, the water has a cubemap, and there's a transition from water to skybox that won't work with fog.

I would start on changing things like fog, I'd optimize just the texture usage and set culling on smallish meshes.

Again, as I said, that's not enough. The geometry alone makes fps plunge down to 60.
And besides, I have most of the meshes culled. The problem is geometry, that's a fact.
What I have to do is strip the bsp down by removing the more complex parts to the point where the fps stays high enough, and then recreate the removed parts in 3d max or something like that.
Then there might be a point in getting rid of a few textures and meshes, right now there isn't.

[jefe]

When I tested the map I wasn't getting 60 fps, it was more like 30. And as you said earlier, changing the textures on the BSP to just one improved your FPS quite a bit, so it's unlikely BSP complexity is an issue, and from what I saw, it shouldn't be. Converting BSP to meshes is probably the worst thing you could do at this point. It will just mean more materials and meshes being processed. No, I'm positive the main problems are still the variety of textures and meshes being loaded, and the meshes not being culled soon enough (this is why fog would be needed, because they would disappear when viewed from the other side of the map.) Reducing the overhead of textures and meshes from where it stands now probably won't make a dramatic difference, but it potentially will make it more playable - and at the very least it wouldn't hurt anything to let someone else have a go at optimizing it.

And as Sly suggested, a server-friendly foggy version with new water and sky could be released along with a texture and mesh-usage optimized version that still uses the current skybox, water and fog.

[UnShame]

Here's a breakdown for you.
The map is running at astounding 30 fps.
[shot]http://i.imgur.com/993iDmf.jpg[/shot]
No static meshes, all geometry, textured - 65fps. Reasonable, but let's not forget that it's just 3659 polygons.
[shot]http://i.imgur.com/uxl5wZV.jpg[/shot]
No static meshes, all geometry, untextured - 55fps (dunno what's up with that, i guess different angle, fact is - doesn't matter).
[shot]http://i.imgur.com/nfmlkrO.jpg[/shot]
All staticmeshes, no geometry - 100fps. That's much MUCH more polygons than all bsp geometry together.
[shot]http://i.imgur.com/BR3q57i.jpg[/shot]
It's clear that the most costly part is indeed bsp. So turning this one part into a staticmesh
[shot]http://i.imgur.com/j8hGYQf.jpg[/shot]
will improve fps more than removing a bunch of textures and meshes.
And that doesn't mean I can't do both. I can. And I will. At some point. Eventually... probably.

[UnShame]

[shot]http://i.imgur.com/qVcbYeJ.jpg[/shot]
Beta 3 is almost here!

[Aberiu]

with the new skybox fog isn't an option.
The sides of the skybox aren't solid color

Actually it is.
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...iu-d75hi19.jpg
This is the version I sent you, err... 2 months ago I guess. I didn't remove the file yet so you can get the skybox here if you need it:
http://sta.sh/01krtwzg9grg

[UnShame]

http://sta.sh/0apzb3xk0bc <- тут нет
это не важно в принципе
я имел в виду, что меши не будут плавно уходить в туман, из-за облаков