ONS-theVine beta 1.4? : done. see full releases thread. 12/21/2006

[tidu]

1. Name: ONS-theVine
2. Version: beta 1
3. Compatibility: ut2004
4. Description:
This is my first official onslaught map, so be nice It's a pretty big map, I play it with me and 31 bots, and I tried to have vehicles available for almost everyone. I didn't go overboard, though. Just 3 mantas, 1 goliath, 3 scorpions, a raptor, and a hellbender at each base. The two nodes per team have three vehicles at each. The link setup is in an S-type fashion, which follows thing large worm thing throughout the level.
5. Comments:
Some things I have yet to address:
-bots sometimes gather around the powernode patrolling
-some bots in base get stuck
-bots don't use the goliath, no matter what
-bases are aren't fully decorated
-overall the map isn't fully decorated yet. I plan to add a bit more to the "worm" on the inside and some more foliage.
-comment on this after you've played: There are two corners of the map that are unused as of now. Should I add nodes there (to make the node layout the same as half the other ONS maps) or get rid of the corners and keep the "snake-like" node layout?
-the "worm" looks like two worms that meet in the middle; I still have to model the other worm to make the plates go the opposite way.

i'd say it's very early beta, so there will be a lot of issues. basically I would like an opinion on whether I should shave off the corners of the map, and maybe insight on why the bots are giving so many problems

also, after a lot of playtesting, I think one (out of many) of my games actually ended in destruction of the powercore. Should there be a contested node in the middle, or is the setup fine the way it is?

6. Screenshots:


7. Credits: myself, epic, you knows
8. Homepage: http://home.comcast.net/~zeldaguru/ (i actually made a site)
9. Download: http://home.comcast.net/~zeldaguru/o...inebeta1.3.zip

[Ducatisto]

I nearly said oops! corrupted zip when it downloaded in less then 1 second, but no this is one small ONS map (filesize). A quick look in the ed (have to go to work ). 28 vehicles? too many otherwise you better install a vehicle recovery mutator to help with all the crashing you will have . Your lakes, best to have the terrain pulled up to form the bottom and not the bottom of the map itself. Can't comment on anything else til later.

Duca

[A Cold Shower]

Looks good, I really like the sort of 'this place was nuked 5 billion times' feel. If that's not what ur looking for then sorry I posted, but so far it's pretty cool looking.

[tidu]

cold shower:

not really what I was going for, but I guess it might look that way. I just wanted a nice landscape with an old, rusted.. thing in the middle.

ducatisto:

I made a few of the improvements you mentioned. I took two vehicles out of each base, and I will probably take out two more hellbenders at the first powernode for each team. I also figured out why the gots wouldn't use the goliath; it was in too compact of an area, so I moved that out. And I fixed the very low terrain bottoms. I used a black texture to add some more shadow to the bottom to make it look "bottomless" but it looks the same fixed, so that's good.

I've got the next beta up as of now, it wasn't up earlier today but now it works. I added a turrent in front of each base.

[tidu]

Anybody else try it out? I played it with a few less players (16 instead of 32) and it seems better. I have to manually eject bots to uneven the teams in order for one team to take advantage, because with even teams the game always goes to overtime.

I also chopped off the two outside paths, they weren't really going anywhere. So I made it pretty out there. I'll have another update a bit later.

[nfleming]

I just downloaded. I'll fire it up and post back if I have anything useful, or probably even if I don't.

Just played some IA.

I like what you have going with this. A nice twist on things. Were you going to add something (Nodes/shields/flowers/something) in the two outer corners, or have you decided not? If you want to keep your theme, I'd say just put something there, but not nodes. Maybe weapons lockers around something. Could be, maybe a small tower like thing, something to snipe from,

Anyway, Maybe a bit of ammo and 1 health at the two primary nodes.

Found the deemer, totally by accident, crashed a scorpion.

Maybe add a 'little' more covering over the nodes that are open above them. Seems like the raptor might have too easy access, since ammo is in short supply.


Since I only play offline, not sure, that may all be wrong for real people playing.

I'll play it some more over the next few days.

[Xyx]

Random observations:

• I really like the theme. Shows thought and imagination.
• Overtime guaranteed with this node setup.
• Those corner areas, do they contain anything worthwhile? How 'bout some inactive nodes that can be used in other setups?
• Map scale feels way off, way too big. Getting somewhere takes forever and the low terrain resolution does not make it the prettiest of terrains up close. Having stuff closer together would totally increase the "action to tediousness" ratio.
• Weapon locker and vehicles are far from the spawn points. At node 1, they're even in opposite directions. I have to either dodgejump to the locker and dodgejump back to the vehicles (at least five dodgejumps) or dodgejump to a vehicle and make a pit stop at the locker. If you ask me, having to measure those distances in dodgejumps is an indication something's off to begin with.
• The base could use some jumppads. Takes forever to get from the bottom to the top.
• The map is pretty dark. The lack of ambient light contrasts with the extremely bright distancefog.
• The fog looks like a wall that keeps its distance. Visibility is pretty clear all the way up to where the fog starts and gone almost immediately thereafter. A bit of a smooth transition might look better.
• The center nodes are very hard to defend against Raptors. They can snipe the nodes through the holes in the "vine", but you cannot retaliate until you climb out of the vine first.
• No ECE vehicles?

[UTDDRmaster117]

The graphics are sorta lame... Sorry... :|

I'm sure you can do it.

[Poker]

I think this has all the beginnings of a terrific ONS map. The theme is unique and well thought, and the atmosphere really seems to work, too. I like the fog color and depth, the look of the water surfaces, and the deep, clear lakes. The long ruined structure running east to west makes for a great visual centerpiece. Architecture of the bases stands out as well, mixing structure with terrain in a charmingly unwieldy manner. Players will have to sort of figure out their way over, around, and through various spots to get where they need to go, and that's good and interesting.

The present layout is a little simplistic compared to what such a good theme and design deserves, though. Especially should this become a popular map for pubs and pugs alike, as I think it really has a good chance of doing, it will need a bit more than the four-nodes-in-a-line setup. In fact, it could easily accommodate another four or six nodes, and could really open up some very interesting areas of the map that currently go unseen, making for many compelling battles.

Some ideas for more nodes (each symmetrical with another on the opposite corner of the map, of course):

- one node could be contained within a small building embedded into the terrain jutting up from the end of the lake nearest the power core. The building would be well below the surface of the terrain above, but could open out onto the lake surface below. A manta or two could spawn inside the building, to be driven directly out over the lake. (Well off the beaten path, but I'd also suggest possibly including actual boats, à la ONS-ViperLake, considering how there's such a nice large expanse of water that players could really have fun bombing around over.)

- another node could be at the opposite end of the lake, but further past the lake surface, up the hillside a little ways, and tucked inside a semi-ruined structure, such as a stray hunk of metal that somehow got ripped off the large central structure.

- and I'd recommend another node still on the high plateau behind the lake, tucked well back in the corner but almost completely exposed, with no cover save for a couple of trees or something. Would make for some good Z-axis action coming from the nodes on either side of the lake.


For terrain, I'd think about linking the lakes together with a small channel. It would give a more natural feel to the form of the land, and could even be of some practical use for getting from one end of the map to another if watercraft were ever included.


Other gameplay points, maybe consider two weapon lockers at each node, and a fair amount of extra link gun ammo in each locker. Most hard core ONS players appreciate being able to find plenty of link, shock, AVRiL, and one or two other weapons without too much fuss.


Excellent so far though ... hope to see this one develop some more, it's off to a great start!

[nfleming]

I think the miminal amount of ammo makes for some interesting decisions on the part of the players. Do you stand and defend the node, teleport elsewhere for ammo, attack. Just seemed like that fit the style of the map. It can make it painful to build a node, but with 3 or 4 building it, should not be a problem.

Maybe making the vine/snake longer, or multi headed to split into a parallel center node. That would likely be a lot of work, so never mind.

Too many nodes feels like it could make it 'just like every other map'.

I agree the lakes look very nice. The jagged design of the vine tied into the base, yes, very nice.

The comment above about getting up to the base from the first node, doesn't take that long to go right up the side, looks like it was intended for that, up and over the top corner.

As I posted above, maybe 1 health at each node and a little more ammo, but dont throw around 5 of each. Much more intense when you are scrapping to take out that raptor with, "arg, what do I have left".

Just too bad the Goliaths have infinite ammo, now limiting that would really make things interesting.

Keep up the good work. The wife and I played this many times, very intense indeed.

[tidu]

Wow, a lot of replies!

Here are the main problems that have been mentioned
-overtime guaranteed. I think I'm gonna change the center of the map, maybe add a single node there with a vine-like structure.

-lack of nodes. I didn't think of alternate link setups, so I will add a few more nodes but I'll probably test the vine layout a bit more. I think a few more nodes will make the map feel smaller, which was a point xyx talked about.

-raptors. I'm thinking of taking out the two raptors in the middle (leaving one at each base); it makes the map a bit unbalanced. Plus, they kept getting stuck on the vine if you hit it hard enough.

-the base. I still have to work a lot on the base, although it's not first on my list. I still have to give it more light, and somehow not let vehicles go up the mountain behind it and sneak in. Jumppads are a good idea. I usually shy away from them since it's unrealistic, but I think they'll help more than they'll hurt.

Thank all of you very much for the feedback, I greatly appreciate it!

[Xyx]

the miminal amount of ammo makes for some interesting decisions on the part of the players.

Quite so. Some players insist there be 15 AVRiL, 30 Shock and 200 Link in dodgejumping distance of spawning. I more appreciate the subtle tactical choices a limited resource offers.

Too many nodes feels like it could make it 'just like every other map'.

The nodes do not have to be active in the default link setup. Extra nodes add a lot of replayability to a map. Extra nodes leave people more room to experiment and tweak the map's layout into something that works best for them. If the default setup turns out not to work on, for instance, 32p servers, they can change the link setup until it works. ONS-Crossfire is such an example: sucks with the default setup but really shines when you add in the extra nodes.

[nfleming]

... Extra nodes add a lot of replayability to a map. Extra nodes leave people more room to experiment and tweak the map's layout into something that works best for them.

True enough. Many maps play completely different given different setups. Just wanted the map to keep that atmosphere that just seems to be there.

I really enjoy the shortage of ammo on this one, some maps it is a pain, but here it just feels right. This one feels like you are just 'out there, alone, guarding that all important node, not enough supplies', more immersive.

[tidu]

Alright, I updated the map. This time I added a node in the center, which makes it a lot more interesting. And four more nodes around the map, which aren't used in the default theVine layout. Another layout called Vines I made takes advantage of every node; and that's pretty intense. I decorated the alternate nodes with more "vine" meshes, so I guess it's not "theVine" anymore but oh well. Now it's a lot harder than before to go into overtime, which is good. The two middle raptors were taken out, so they don't dominate as much. I've got to make a few more tweaks, so I'll upload it as soon as I implement them.

[nfleming]

Sounds like some big changes.
Waiting impatiently...