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**legacy-Mr_Caravaggio** · 06-23-2005, 11:38 PM

I've always been one to say that maps need more black areas in them, but I'm not sure that they should be that wide. I haven't played it yet but it looks like the radius of some of those lights might be expanded to 150% or so so that only one or two characters are covered at a time.

Other than that it looks pretty good. Kind of like a retro UT map. I'll never get tired of the big A and B signs. :P

**legacy-Bobfungus** · 06-23-2005, 11:42 PM

A dark map? *thinks Splinter Cell*

DLing now!

**RichyB** · 06-24-2005, 12:30 AM

Quite a fun map ive been playing it for half an hour or so. I realy enjoyed the layout and stuff.
Lighting needs more work and a D damage and a super health have one of them. Id go for D damage as you have enuth health and shields to go around.

**legacy-eviL<3** · 06-25-2005, 03:20 PM

The Download link is broken

Fix it please!

**legacy-CyMek** · 06-25-2005, 06:30 PM

My domain got just revoked :cry:

Ok, a friend lent me his FTP. The new DL location is here:http://dt3.no-ip.com:4770/catatonicbeta14.zip

**legacy-eviL<3** · 06-25-2005, 06:42 PM

Thanks! :heart: Downloading!

EDIT:

http://www.uploadtemple.com/view.php/1119725056.zip

^ Mirror ^

**legacy-Lothar 22** · 06-25-2005, 08:04 PM

I'll download and take for a test run...

-Ok, i downloaded from the mirrior, and all that was in the zip was a txt doc and the map, but when i try to play, BOOM! Missing texture or something... So I open up in Editor and take a look around...

-Nice layout, im not a big symetrical map fan, but this one looks nice.
- I'll second the add more lights idea, its a wee gloomy
- The flag rooms could use a little more..um..stuff, they're kinda empty.

Good job though.

:up:

**Discord** · 06-26-2005, 02:11 AM

I just gave it a run, and it's not really that hard to see... I didn't lose anybody anyway, and at first glance it doesn't really look like there's anywhere to camp in the shadows, so that's cool.

Nice, fun little map for 3v3, should be good times on a LAN.

Pros:

I love the "trick" jumps in the lavapit room, those are good for keeping you on the ball. DD is well placed. Again with the shock way out in the middle, must be the latest fad :haha:. Still though, it works.

Weapon placement in general feels good, this map should flow well with the recommended player count.

Playing close defense on this map means staying on your toes, since they can come from just about any direction with little warning... at the same time there are plenty of oportunities to extend the perimeter a little. I like it.

:up:

I didn't have any texture probs, could be a LOD setting...

Cons:

The one place where it's too dark IMO is the area on the lower level behind the flag room, the one with the jumppad (cool sound on that, BTW). If you try to jump down there with the flag it's really easy to get disoriented. Could use a small light, IMO, just to show you where the wall is.

The lower route is kind of a raw deal as it is. If you take the flag down there, you're stuck with it... whereas a confident jumper can exit the base in the lava room and switch back to the lower route, potentially ditching pursuit. It's not major bad, since the lower route has less physical danger and the keg to balance it out... can't decide, really.

DD and keg are waaaay too close together, you can scoop 'em both up in almost a single move. Maybe put the amp on the other side of the room? Or, putting up a wall is always an option...

The grating in the floor over the lower flagbase in the lava room... you can walk across it AND shoot through it. Your call, but it makes using rox and flak kinda hairy there.

Re: plain- jane flagroom.

Please don't clutter it up! A couple of pipes in the walls and maybe some ductwork overhead wouldn't be bad, though. A little bit of decorative texture work, like maybe yellow and black caution signs or "Red/ Blue Base" painted on the wall wouldn't hurt.

Overall? Simple but effective, should be plenty of fun. GJ.

**legacy-Lopar-XL** · 06-26-2005, 03:54 AM

Like Discord said, simple and effective. I've seen dimly lit maps before but many of them are just too dark. Your map has just the right amount of light and shadow to make for an eerie feeling, without looking cheap and gimmicky. Besides, there are plenty of weapon mods that include starlight scopes or flashlights/torches for us to use. I am all for including more than one path to the each flag base, and so you have done so here. The room with the pipe across the lava pit makes for some intense sniper exchanges and an interesting "jumping puzzle", if you will, to get across to the other side. I prefer CTF maps to be heavily populated, with a minimum of 6 per team, and I never thought that I would have so much fun with so few players on the map until I played CTF-Catatonic. If I was an expert at map/level making then I would give a better critique, but from what I know this looks to be a well thought out and executed map. Thank you. :up:

EDIT: Oh one more thing, are you planning on making a CTF4 version of this map?

**legacy-eviL<3** · 06-26-2005, 09:58 AM

WooT this owns!

I love this Map!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's quite dark, needs lighting up.......imo (might be my settings)

but this is soooo much fun!

:up:

I love the gameplay!

I couldn't find any bugs, but i agree that

Originally posted by Discord
DD and keg are waaaay too close together, you can scoop 'em both up in almost a single move.

eviL

**legacy-Lopar-XL** · 06-26-2005, 02:34 PM

Re: WooT this owns!

Actually, it was Discord who made the comment about the DD and Keg. Another thing I wanted to say was that I thought the bots fought and defended well on this map.

**legacy-eviL<3** · 06-26-2005, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Lopar-XL
Actually, it was Discord who made the comment about the DD and Keg. Another thing I wanted to say was that I thought the bots fought and defended well on this map.

Ooops, that's what happens when you create a quote manually

About the bots... yeah, they played quite defensiveley for me

**legacy-CyMek** · 06-26-2005, 07:49 PM

Oookay, I have spent a while working here, and you get beta 2 now.

Changes
-Made the grate under the Lightning Gun solid.
-Sawpped the Big Keg out for two health packs and 6 vials on the lower ramps.
-Added some details to the flag rom.
-Brightened up the Flack hall somewhat. (I'm not sure if it is enough TBH, but it is somehwat brighter.)
-Brightened the rest of the map just a tad.
-Added everyone who helped so far to the read-me.

I considered adding a jump pad or ladder or something from the low route to the DD/high area, but I'm not sure about that. The low route was intended to be the tradeoff that while you are hard to chase, you get stuck if you don't cover yourself well.

@ Lothar 22 - What file was missing? I thought I only used stock textures, but I guess not.

@ Lopar-XL - I didn't haev a CTF4 version planned, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to make, although the center would have to be dramatically different, since the pipe mesh I am mostly using in there is a little weird.

About the botplay - I'm not sure what they will do in the new version, I haven't gotten to see what teh removal of the big keg will do to them. I realize they play defensively, although I'm not fully sure why. By default only 1/3 bots should be assigned to D.

Lastly, I want to thank every one of you who has helped so far. It's awesome to get really helpful, solid feedback in a beta. Thank you all from every part of my heart.

Oh, and I have beta 2 here, almost forgot.

http://www.uploadtemple.com/view.php/1119815199.zip

**Discord** · 06-26-2005, 08:53 PM

Hey, cool.

Alright, not a lot of major changes here so let's go:

-Brightened up the Flack hall somewhat. (I'm not sure if it is enough TBH, but it is somehwat brighter.)

It's perfect. You can see what you're doing, and you can also see the texture... which is nice for atmosphere. If you think about it, maybe a quiet ambient dripping sound would really do wonders for the folks who care about that stuff.

I considered adding a jump pad or ladder or something from the low route to the DD/high area, but I'm not sure about that. The low route was intended to be the tradeoff that while you are hard to chase, you get stuck if you don't cover yourself well.

That's what I figured, works for me.

-Added some details to the flag room.

Looks less empty now. I'm not much of an eyecandy guy so whatever's cool with me... the stuff you put in doesn't get in the way, so it's all good.

-Made the grate under the Lightning Gun solid.

Yeah, that's probably the way to go. Thanks.

-Sawpped the Big Keg out for two health packs and 6 vials on the lower ramps.

If you look at that route as an isolated thing, or in combination with the DD, that's probably a good choice. However, it leads to something new...

New stuff:

The map now has only one strong powerup: the UDamage. With no keg and no 100a, the map is now biased a lot more toward the defense. For 3v3 this is just fine... you throw two guys on offense and one guy on D, should be well balanced. It might make 4v4 or 2v2 a little rough, though, if somebody chooses to go that route. I'll give it a shot here in a few and see what happens.

The two minis/ four mini ammos in route B are a little excessive. I tried securing that area ("camping," if you want) and found I could control it pretty easily, especially since I had a ready supply of health... I shut down the enemy bots and my team went on a pretty nice run. How that would play out vs humans I can't really say, but you might try just putting one mini/ ammo pickup area down there... you could space out the health packs and put the mini dead center. Or, you could put two minis and NO ammo... put the ammo topside in the flagbase area, that would cut that right out.

Same with the shocks in the lava room. You can't reduce the number of shockrifle pickups, but maybe one ammo each would make things a little more interesting.

As a general rule of thumb, it's often good not to put two ammo pickups right next to the weapon pickup... you keep people moving if you space the ammo out. Like most rules of thumb, this isn't always true, but in a lot of cases it is, and it might help out here.

One other little thing, I notice that the bots always go via the Amp pickup base when crossing route A. If you could get them to just translocate/ dodgejump straight across it would be nice... but I don't really care about bots, so it doesn't matter much to me. But as stated above, your bots are doing pretty nicely otherwise. I'm playing on "Masterful," BTW.

These are all finer points... you could probably get away with calling it done right now if you're sick of it. If you're not, though, a little scrubbing should make this one really shine.

I'll make a second post after I hit some 4v4.

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