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Custom Map Assault League by Omnip)o(tentS

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    #16
    Originally posted by «ßîc»$l@c|<er
    8 map matches? thats like 4 hours! longest ive ever played in is 2 hours, and that was with 30 minutes of the other team b!tching about their pings!
    :haha:

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by k1bigal
      blah blah blah
      Wow, you're right, I'm a dip**** for using a common misnomer on the internet. I mean, after all, the internet is such a shining beacon of proper english, isn't it? You made several more glaring gramatical mistakes in your own post, so why don't we try and keep some focus here?

      Assault was the first gametype I tried, before Onslaught. Being a UT99 AS fan, I was estatic from the moment UT2k4 AS was first announced.

      I played this gametype extensively as soon as the UT2k4 demo came out, and again with the full game came out. I played it with several extremely good players.

      And I was extremely dissapointed. The game offers little in terms of strategy outside of attacking in certain groups or maybe an extremely basic diversion. Not only did it not offer any launches or shortcuts, it never even offered alternate, optional or non-linear objectives... what the hell? Those were the things that made UT99 AS so dynamic, unpredictable and fun!

      Add that to the frustration of the Hold switches, multiple-hit objectives, spawn queues, all of which are extremely out of place in the full-speed world on Unreal Tournament... it just doesn't add up to a gametype with much replay value.

      The way you talk about how "horrible" launches would be, its clear that you are the one who has never played a game of UT99 AS. Yes, they let the offense get to the switches very fast, but you simply have to account for that fact defensively... Figure out where they're going to launch from and keep them from getting there! Put someone on the switch to kill them when they get there!

      Launches added a whole other level to the game... not only could you figure out creative ways around strongly defended objectives, but you had to figure out and defend against those bypasses in order to properly defend. It made games unpredictable, map practice invaluable, and the whole league alot more fun. The "one-way" AS in 2k4 doesn't even hold a candle to the hectic nature of the old gametype, and when you combine that with the frustration of the many delay elements of the gametype, it just comes up a little too short to be a viable gametype.

      If the fact that only six maps are worthy of being played in your modification doesn't tell you something about it, then I don't know what else will. At its heart, the modification is spammy, linear, predictable and frustrating. While the "direct-infiltration" situation presented by all of these maps may have worked in a world with more moderate movement and weapons, it simply doesn't work in the unreal universe, not in the way it is currently presented.

      The only reason this game has a community at all, I'd wager, is because so much artistic work was put into the default maps that they still have an appeal that goes beyond the flaws in the gametype (excepting AS-Mothership, which I hope you'll agree is the worst-playing map that shipped with the game, although it also the most imaginative). In addition, every player in the community is almost certainly a mostly-casual player, a very young player or just very new to the FPS genre.

      Comment


        #18
        He was saying that launches in themselves are not bad, it is the way current AS maps are DESIGNED that would break them. For example, on Convoy, the attackers could...

        Rocket launch someone to the door across to the other side
        Rocket launch them to the cache

        See? Kinda broken if it is in.

        Comment


          #19
          Of course they could rocket launch over there. Answer? Defend against it!

          It takes time to set up one of those launches, so it would be easy enough to have someone with a sniper rifle look over there and snipe the person charging their rockets.

          It would also be best to have someone waiting at the explosives objective already to make sure that, if a launcher DOES manage to get over there, he wouldn't survive long enough to hit that door.

          Whatever the case, I realize that I neglected to add another change in my original post: no spawn-queues, but no delays on switch objectives: touch it and it's done. Not only would the game play more frantically, but the defense would have to play more aggresively, unable to depend upon repeatedly killing the offense at the switch.

          ....eh, but now that you mention it, there's one element of those levels that might not work well with launches: weapon placement. For instance, on convoy, the defense only starts out with hitscans, which really wouldn't be effective enough if the offense managed to get over to the main train from a rocket launch.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Main
            Assault was the first gametype I tried, before Onslaught. Being a UT99 AS fan, I was estatic from the moment UT2k4 AS was first announced.

            I played this gametype extensively as soon as the UT2k4 demo came out, and again with the full game came out. I played it with several extremely good players.

            And I was extremely dissapointed. The game offers little in terms of strategy outside of attacking in certain groups or maybe an extremely basic diversion. Not only did it not offer any launches or shortcuts, it never even offered alternate, optional or non-linear objectives... what the hell? Those were the things that made UT99 AS so dynamic, unpredictable and fun!
            So let me get this straight: You played AS in UT2k4 when it launched, realized it was different than it was in UT99, and decided to shun the gametype (rather than adapt to the changes)? If that is the case, then you're not being fair. You really aren't in a position to talk about strategy, since you haven't been around the gametype enough to watch the strategies evolve. It only makes sense that the strategies used when you first played AS in UT2k4 would be less evolved than the strategies used today, so I can see why you believe there is little strategy.
            Also, while I'm sure there aren't as many optional objectives (I never played UT99, so I'm not going to try and compare the two), you're wrong to say that there aren't any shortcuts or non-linear objectives. UT2k4 AS is dynamic, unpredictable and fun, so why don't you give it another shot? Visit our community sometime, or hop on #aspug sometime for a pick up game. I can guarantee you that it will be a diferent experience than when you first played the game.


            Add that to the frustration of the Hold switches, multiple-hit objectives, spawn queues, all of which are extremely out of place in the full-speed world on Unreal Tournament... it just doesn't add up to a gametype with much replay value.
            Honestly, I don't think any of these things are frustrating, and niether does anyone else who plays assault competitively. I love the struggle associated with gaining access to and controlling a hold switch. I love how the multiple hit objectives force you to not only concentrate on the objective you're destroying, but also focus on the enemies around you and dodge their fire. And believe it or not, I love the spawn queues, since it makes it easier for teams to attack together since spawn together (especially useful in pubs, wheremost people don't have mics to communicate when they die).
            I think the fact that an Assault community has been holding strong despite the fact that there are only 5 or 6 maps worthy of being competitive speaks volume about the replay value of the game. I love playing the maps over and over, looking for ways to improve, and so do other people.

            The way you talk about how "horrible" launches would be, its clear that you are the one who has never played a game of UT99 AS. Yes, they let the offense get to the switches very fast, but you simply have to account for that fact defensively... Figure out where they're going to launch from and keep them from getting there! Put someone on the switch to kill them when they get there!
            It is true that I have never played a game of UT99 (I never said anything to the contrary), but I have played UT2k4 with a rocket launch mutator (which is what we're discussing here). It completely skews the game in favor of the offense. Sure you know what the offense is going to do, but it is still overly difficult to stop them (regardless of any strategies used). I don't know what UT99 was like, but I'm sure it was actually possible for the defense to counter rocket launching. In 2k4, its near impossible.


            Launches added a whole other level to the game... not only could you figure out creative ways around strongly defended objectives, but you had to figure out and defend against those bypasses in order to properly defend. It made games unpredictable, map practice invaluable, and the whole league alot more fun. The "one-way" AS in 2k4 doesn't even hold a candle to the hectic nature of the old gametype, and when you combine that with the frustration of the many delay elements of the gametype, it just comes up a little too short to be a viable gametype.
            Even though UT2k4 does not have launches, there are still creative ways around strongly defended objectives. Take Fallen City for example. If the defense is keeping you from making it over the debris to destroy the barricade, you can do several things. You can walljump over the debris in two different ways, snipe it from near the offense's spawn point, or run around the side and shoot it from afar. If the defense is stopping you out front in the second objective, you can run through the defenses spawn point and come out the other side, allowing you to get the objective (provided your teammates haven't pushed the defenense back towards the obj).
            And then the defense is forced to defend around these different forms of attack. So you see, AS in 2k4 is not as "linear" as you make it out to be. Granted, it may be more linear than UT99 AS (I haven't played it, so I wouldn't know), but it is still an enjoyable gametype that isn't COMPLETELY straightforward.

            If the fact that only six map are worthy of being played in your modification doesn't tell you something about it, then I don't know what else will.
            It tells me that AS is the hardest gametype to map for, and when you combine that with the fact that Epic didn't give the gametype any support (6 maps at release, and no other maps released AT ALL), then you can see why there are only six maps deemed playable.

            At its heart, the modification is spammy, linear, predictable and frustrating. While the "direct-infiltration" situation presented by all of these maps may have worked in a world with more moderate movement and weapons, it simply doesn't work in the unreal universe, not in the way it is currently presented.
            I'm sorry it doesn't work for you , but there a bunch of people out there that enjoy the gametype the way it is. Just because its not your personal cup of tea doesn't mean that its not a worthy or enjoyable gametype.

            The only reason this game has a community at all, I'd wager, is because so much artistic work was put into the default maps that they still have an appeal that goes beyond the flaws in the gametype (excepting AS-Mothership, which I hope you'll agree is the worst-playing map that shipped with the game, although it also the most imaginative). In addition, every player in the community is almost certainly a mostly-casual player, a very young player or just very new to the FPS genre.
            I find this part particularly insulting. You don't know A THING about the community, yet you have no problem making these bold assertions. The fact is that we have a very tight knit community that loves the gametype for the way it plays, and not because it looks pretty, as you allege. The people that play it are beyond casual players, who are not very young or new to the FPS genre. If you're going to sit there and insult an entire group of people, I suggest you get to know what you're talking about first.

            It's clear that you don't like AS in UT2k4, and that's fine. However, there are plenty of people that do, and you seem to fail to realize that the changes you suggest implementing would alienate, rather than attact, more people to the community. I suggest you give Assault another try, since it's probably changed alot since you last played it. And if you can, play AS in a pug rather than a pub, since you won't get anything near the full experience that competitve Assault offers in some random pub (and also, the delay elements you complain about are less of a problem in a pug).

            Comment


              #21
              just thought i would add something to the discussion even though i don't play AS.


              rocket launches in AS would be like berserk shield jumps in CTF: they can be defended against....but they completely ruin the game nonetheless. basically what i'm tyring to say is shut the **** up about rocket launches. this isn't UT99, nor will it ever be. so stop trying to make it that way. different maps, different movement, different gameplay dynamics. what worked in UT99 has a good chance of completely sucking in UT2k4. so rethink your ideas and stop with your UT99 fanboyism. go play UT99 assualt and stop pestering the UT2k4 assualt folks.

              Comment


                #22
                And Main, you say that you have played with some of the top AS players for awhile. Did you stand toe to toe with [Holo] in their prime? How about {666}? [EH]? |EiF|? KiA|? 187|?

                I played in 27 of [Holo]'s 29 ladder matches, and won 26 of them.

                What I am trying to ask, is where are YOUR UT2K4 AS credentials? UT AS isn't the name of the game here.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by k1bigal
                  Each map in 2k4 has its own detailed strategies involving specific team movements and actions as well. Ever played a TRUE competitive game of 2k4 AS (I'm not talking pubbing, I mean pugging, a scrim, or a ladder match)? I'm guessing your answer is "no," since if you have, then you would realize that there are detailed strategies to every AS map.
                  Nah, UT99 tactics were/are much more in-depth than UT2004 ones, because of the scope of things that you can do. I've seen the tactics for mi5's UT99 AS squad (top of utassault league for four years) and mi5's UT2004 AS squad (Euro #1 AS clan, currently unbeaten in 5v5 AS) and the UT99 ones are a lot, lot more indepth and specific.

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