Map Piracy [Resolved-*Lock me*]

[legacy-AgentZero]

Did you know you can lock and unlock threads yourself? Try it from the admin options - its the only one that works. For the thread creater ONLY ofcourse.

[legacy-Killavirus]

Places Bid


But i do agree it would be nice if people wouldn't rip your stuff off.

but hey who am i talking
i have used static meshes from other maps. and hopefully a vehicles, but yes i will include the people in the credits

[legacy-S3Y3N]

LMFAO at this thread and MagicMyst making a nuissance of himself in his arguing with the people who made this game, not really knowig what hes talking about (atleast in all practicall aspects), and blabbering on some more about a Sun comment, to which he has sent himself into a Blackhole, and yes its a Blackhole, with a capital B, as long as everyone else in this thread THINKS YOURE IN IT. rofl. Oops did i just say black hole, I hope he doesnt take that one too literally, lol.


BTW I'm going to copy and paste this thread and claim it my intellectual property and sell it on ebay for those in need of a good laugh. Anyone ever check out those ROOFLES being sold on ebay? Man were they scrumptious.

[Boksha]

Originally posted by CMan
Curious though, do you think the normal mapping will be able to be used on BSP?

Normal maps, and textures could be combined and used on BSP for some great easy effects...

They'll be materials, so if there's going to be BSP in the next engine, you'll be able to normal map it. Personally though I don't see too many reasons you'd want to do that, or use BSP at all for anything but zoning.

[legacy-CMan]

Hmm, very interesting read...

Curious though, do you think the normal mapping will be able to be used on BSP?

Normal maps, and textures could be combined and used on BSP for some great easy effects...

[legacy-farman]

Originally posted by mrpartyhat
My god that is genius! I'm going to try that later. Never thought about it before I guess after a map has been built the bsp could be deleted because without another build all the existing built bsp wouldn't change. But at the same time you wouldn't be able to edit or copy it because the original bsp is no longer there. Thanks Will if it works ^^ :up:

Deleting BSP was a great method back in 1999-2002, but it will not protect your meshes and textures, and maps in the future will probably only be 20% - 30% BSP.

Originally posted by -Amwryn-
6 weeks?

those guys are taking 15 coffee/smoke breaks a day and riding the clock a lot then.

if i were being paid to do it 8 hours a day i could probably crank out 2 full pro quality maps in that time. If, of course, i dident run out of ideas.

and im a noob mapper

adendum. unless they are working with Radiant. then i could see the 6 week time frame due to 4 weeks in an Alcohol/Depression Recovery Center.

I guess they use all sorts of advanced techniques on the model which would include shaders, HDR texturing considerations??, displacement mapping, specularity, reflection considerations, and making the model match its real world counterpart as closely as possible. They would not be using anything like radiant to build models. They would be using a professional suite like 3D studio Max or Maya

It's probably more work than creating entire small UT2004 level

The sky rocketing cost in making games probably has most to do with the artitistic content creation and the number of people needed for just art content

[legacy-Killavirus]

Wow
this made for a really good read
Pity i didnt get past page 2

[legacy-mrpartyhat]

Originally posted by -=¤willhaven¤=-
When your map is final and ready for release, delete all the BSP brushes and save the map for upload somewhere. Makes map piracy much harder.

My god that is genius! I'm going to try that later. Never thought about it before I guess after a map has been built the bsp could be deleted because without another build all the existing built bsp wouldn't change. But at the same time you wouldn't be able to edit or copy it because the original bsp is no longer there. Thanks Will if it works ^^ :up:

[legacy--Amwryn-]

6 weeks?

those guys are taking 15 coffee/smoke breaks a day and riding the clock a lot then.

if i were being paid to do it 8 hours a day i could probably crank out 2 full pro quality maps in that time. If, of course, i dident run out of ideas.

and im a noob mapper

adendum. unless they are working with Radiant. then i could see the 6 week time frame due to 4 weeks in an Alcohol/Depression Recovery Center.

[legacy-Slinky317]

I've been reading this thread and there's one thing that's been bothering the hell out of me.

MajikMyst, for the love of God, it's spelled YOU'RE.

[legacy-farman]

Here is an example of how long it could take to do detailed models, for those who think building high quality models that match retail models is a trivial task.

The developers working on Project Gotham Racing for the XBOX 360 state in OXM magazine, that it takes: "6 weeks to create one car, 40.000 polys for the interior alone"

Now obviously most models won't take nearly that long to build, but you can see it takes quite a lot of effort from someone who is a professional. Now just imagine the poor novice who wastes his time trying to match that, only to get his mesh ripped off without any credit

[legacy-KoLdDoOm]

Originally posted by The_Deacon
To me there's a trade off between making a map difficult to pirate (BSP delete etc), and making a map that honest people can learn from.

Some way to 'lock' a map from being edited at all, but still viewable (no copy paste either) might in theory be a good thing, but there's probably drawbacks since I only thought about it for around 30 seconds

That's a pretty good idea Purp, but I doubt anyone would WANT to steal from my awful attempts at mapping (Battlefields)

[legacy-farman]

Originally posted by Desp#2
The first map for the next gen to be released with full new content will be forever known in the community, it might not be the best of the maps but it will be looked at and that is what will force the level community to get better and make them see that it is possible to make new content with one person. It will happen.

At the end if your hardcore enough to make content for the next gen engine you will be recognized and you will not be a common joe. So the fact that it will be hard to make stuff in the next gen engines the harder it will be for people to take stuff without somebody noticing.

When UT2007 comes out I expect the first custom levels to be largely without normal mapping for maps made almost entirely of custom content, but some will look decent. The problem is compared to the retail versions, these levels might seem flat(less 3D) by comparison. Anyone who rises to the occasion and surpassess retail quality with their mods or maps deserves the right to decide whether their work should be protected or not.

As I pointed out earlier, protected maps do not in any way harm the community nor do they prevent other people from learning. This is the biggest misconception. When is the last time you looked at a 10,000 polygon "collapsed" mesh and was able to figure out how it was constructed. Not very likely and if you want to look at meshes, then use the retail ones for examples

[legacy-farman]

Originally posted by chrome_gnome
I'm curious if someone could put a link to something that explains the references people have made in this thread to the new Unreal Engine being very "non-protectionist" and leading to reduced custom content.

I've read some of the released info about UT 2007 but don't remember seeing any thing like this so I no doubt missed reading it.

First, pay no attention to Discord :haha:

UT99 featured maps made almost entirely of BSP which was hard to steal from in the sense that you could run into problems during the compile process, in addition to the fact that mappers could delete the BSP to prevent you from stealing it. Back then stealing was not too big of an issue.

UT2003-UT2004 maps are now made largely of static meshes and prefabs which take 2 seconds to steal and these cannot be erased like BSP. A map can be thrown together in minutes simply using prebuilt meshes. In other words it is far easier to steal content from UT2003 and UT2004 .

Hence -> mapping dumb down (lego style) + a Kiddy cartoon version of UT (AKA UT2003) = more juveniles start mapping with the attitude that they can take whatever they want and take credit for it .

Many mappers that got ripped off stopped mapping, but most probably left because UT2003 and UT2004 just were not fun games.

With the increased difficulty for those who want to make custom made content, you can be sure that this theft problem will cause many people to stop making mods with mostly custom content in them and some just won't make content for UT2007 at all.

[Discord]

Originally posted by Boksha
I didn't say it's OK to use software illegally.
I just said that whatever you make with it is still your IP.
I'm not sure how the Farcry piracy scandal ended up, but I'm pretty sure it DIDN'T end up with all those models belonging to the authors of the 3d modeling tool.

Legally? Probably depends on jurisdiction. Ethically? That's an ugly can of worms you've got there.

And given that the legal threat to non- commercial, amateur rippers of non- commercial, amateur artwork is negligible, I expect you'll want to leave the law be and maintain the moral high- ground here.

I'm not sure how the Farcry piracy scandal ended up, but I'm pretty sure it DIDN'T end up with all those models belonging to the authors of the 3d modeling tool.

IIRC they just coughed up for licenses, got a stern finger- wagging and that was that.

Had they for some reason not had the money on hand, though... depending on the value of the software it's not inconceivable that at least a portion of the legal rights to the game could have changed hands. After all, in legal- land IP is just another commodity with a simple cash value.

And to extend that, if I manage to make some kind of money in the process of stealing somebody's work (either by winning the MSUC or going retail in some other way), then yeah it might very well be worth their time to come after me and if they could prove they created the artwork I'd be buggered... and rightly so, because that's deeply wrong. People who screw artists out of paychecks ought to be fully immersed in dung in the lowest circle of hell IMO.

So yeah, like you I'm not saying that stealing peoples' work is right. I'll even go you one more and say that requiring users of UEd to allow any and all non- commercial reuse of artwork would be at least severely uncool.

What I'm saying, though, is that there are times when an amateur creator's rights ought to be rigorously enforced and there are times when it's probably best to let things slide a little.

Here at home in our little creative backyard, I'd go so far as to say that a map with "ripped" artwork that gets popular ought to be demanded to at least credit the other creator involved. Seems fair. But going ballistic every time some UEd n00b cranks out a laughable frankenstein map seems kind of excessive to me. Having played in a couple of bands I can easily tell you that if you can't handle the wierdness that sometimes happens when your "opus" meets Joe Public, you might want to consider a different hobby. Desp hit it right on the head when he said that he's amused when somebody reinterprets his stuff... all that means is that he's successfully spoken to somebody.

And really, the "credit" thing isn't as big a deal as it looks like from within the mapping community. I really can't for the life of me remember the names of the people who created even my favorite custom maps... I don't think that makes me evil, I think that probably just makes me a typical consumer.

So IMO you guys/ gals ought to lighten up a teensy bit and save the wrath for the cases in which it's really warranted.