Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Map Piracy [Resolved-*Lock me*]

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #91
    Well, I had a very pointless conversation with good ol' Scud Butt today:

    No Thumbnail for this last one

    Boycott!

    Comment


      #92
      it's on his server, but he isn't releasing it to the community

      go for boycot !! :up:

      Comment


        #93
        Originally posted by Princess_Frosty
        My point of view on this is that if you release something into the public domain, be prepared to have people take it to bits, people will do it in their own time maybe purely for personal prviate use such a LAN games with buddies or maybe for other reasons.
        Please don't mis-use the term "public domain".
        The term "public domain" means it belongs to everybody, so everybody may do with it as they like, they don't even have to give credit.
        "public domain" is absence of legal protection (e.g. copyright, patent, ... law) for intellectual property
        Usually you don't release stuff into the "public domain" (usualy that is only the case when you say it is released into the "public domain"), you just release it to the public.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Domain

        ps, give credit where credit is due, even if something is in "public domain"

        it's on his server, but he isn't releasing it to the community
        I think this needs some clarification: putting something on a public accessable server means you are redistributing (releasing) it to the public.

        Comment


          #94
          Originally posted by DeepDubTrauma
          ---
          Id love to reply, but Dell are suing me and every word i type can be found in the english oxford dictionary who already want to take me to court over my use of the word 'The' :'((((

          edit: when will the madness end?

          Comment


            #95
            Originally posted by DrSiN
            Copyrights are fun. While I'm not a lawyer, I've had to deal with them a lot in the past. So let me point a few things out. MajikMyst, you are wrong in almost every case.

            When you create an original work, it is your intellectual property. A copyright is a right granted by some legislative body (ie: The US government by way of the US Copyright office). These individual rights, by default, exist only in the country granting the right. Now, most nations have signed agreements to honor each other’s copyrights. This is why a product made in the US can be sold in Germany or the UK. So simply creating something doesn’t give you the copyright. You have to apply for a copyright.

            However, the work is still your IP and you control it. The problem is (with digital IP in this case) is controlling it. You can protect your ip through the legal system. Not being a lawyer I’m not going to speculate the steps you would take other than say chances are it would be expensive and out of the reach of the average mapper/modder. So bottom line is you are at a legal quagmire. Spend $$$ to protect your IP or just accept that it gets used elsewhere. Keep in mind that you are bound to protect your IP. Failure to do so weakens your overall rights.

            As for the work you do becoming the property of Epic. This is completely untrue. First off the EULA could never be used to force assignment of ownership and you DO own your IP. What the EULA can do is set down rules as to how you can use OUR IP (ie the game (engine/code), it’s textures, code, models, etc). Our EULA gives you the right to create new content for OUR game, utilizing any of our previous products as long as you follow a few simple rules (can’t make a profit, can’t be used to cheat, etc). Since your IP relies on our IP, it’s bound by those rules. But likewise, since it’s your IP, we can’t just snatch it up and sell it or use it without your permission.

            Now, incase you are still confused:

            Intellectual property is something you create. A copyright is the public notice that you created it and that the creation has been recognized by some legislative body. While a copyright makes it easier to defend your IP, it’s not required.

            In the original example Scud seems to be blatantly ripping off Kevin’s IP. Sucks and Scud is a jerk for not providing credit. But seriously, what can you do other than let people know Scud jerk for not providing credit?

            Btw, I’m 100% against the attitude of “It’s my map/mesh/etc” so back off. While it does suck that Scud (or anyone else who does this) isn’t giving proper credit, I encourage that people share their work. Certainly when someone is a jerk, let people know, but don’t let that jerk spoil the party.
            Your not a lawyer. That is for sure. Epic can't require someone not to sell their IP unless Epic maintains some form of ownership. That is simply the law. If you don't own the maps or the content there in, then you have no recourse to stop map makers from selling their work for profit. To simply say we can't sell it in the EULA wouldn't hold in a court of law because of the issue of ownership. No court would grant any company the power to say what people can or can't sell unless the issue of ownership is spelled out.

            This quote from your own EULA makes the issue of ownership very clear.

            For the sake of clarity you will not gain any ownership whatsoever in any Epic content or script nor can you use any Epic content outside the scope of the rights granted here. Any attempt to do so will bring about the wrath of our attorneys.

            Basically Epic is saying that they maintain all ownership. Epic would have to so it can enforce the no sale for profit clause in the EULA.

            Again, I am not wrong on any account. Please go read your own EULA and have a chat with your attorneys.

            You are right in one account, your not a lawyer.

            You also might consider that we are not talking about IP in general, we are talking about the contents of maps and mods for UT2K4. You are right in the respect to general IP. In this case however there is no IP except that which Epic owns and maintains ownership of through the EULA.

            Comment


              #96
              ScudButt is an idiot, and has always been an idiot. Trying to have any kind of intelligent discussion with him is just a waste of time, unfortunately. Most of the people in the 2k4 ctf community have known this for a long, long time, and that's the reason why most good players go to the ScrapBin instead.

              Scudd hangs on his server 24/7 talking smack, always switches to spec if his team starts losing, argues with players, bans people for next to nothing, and generally acts like a moron. And after a year+ of having his own server and being on there seemingly constantly, he's still a terrible player.

              Anyway, if you look on the server, you'll see that Scud has butchered tons of maps. Most of them he just does stupid things (like adding a pic of a girl in a bikini on Bedrooms Remix, for example), but occasionally, he alters the geometry as well (like adding a pointless lift in NovCE 2k4 for instance). Most of the additions/changes/etc. that he makes are useless, and no one would ever want to adopt them anywhere else anyway, so they just sit on his server and never go anywhere.

              For the original poster, I would just say take this as a lesson learned and let it go. Scud is a tard, and any time you spend talking with him or thinking about him is time you would be spending more enjoyably doing just about anything else (even going to the toilet would be better lol).

              Anyway, just my 2 cents on the subject.

              GL,

              --Fro

              Comment


                #97
                Originally posted by MajikMyst
                For the sake of clarity you will not gain any ownership whatsoever in any Epic content or script nor can you use any Epic content outside the scope of the rights granted here. Any attempt to do so will bring about the wrath of our attorneys.

                Basically Epic is saying that they maintain all ownership. Epic would have to so it can enforce the no sale for profit clause in the EULA.
                All ownership OF EPIC CONTENT

                It does not tell us that we gain no ownership of our own content.
                Epic can always say you can't sell your stuff because if it's produced with unrealed for UT2004, it's actually impossible to not have some Epic intellectual property in the level, thus you cannot clain it entirely as your own, thus you cannot sell it. You could make a map using no textures/meshes etc that belong to epic, but the level would still contain Epic intellectual property, whether visible or not.

                Comment


                  #98
                  Originally posted by DrSiN

                  Intellectual property is something you create. A copyright is the public notice that you created it and that the creation has been recognized by some legislative body. While a copyright makes it easier to defend your IP, it’s not required.

                  In the original example Scud seems to be blatantly ripping off Kevin’s IP. Sucks and Scud is a jerk for not providing credit. But seriously, what can you do other than let people know Scud jerk for not providing credit?

                  Btw, I’m 100% against the attitude of “It’s my map/mesh/etc” so back off. While it does suck that Scud (or anyone else who does this) isn’t giving proper credit, I encourage that people share their work. Certainly when someone is a jerk, let people know, but don’t let that jerk spoil the party.
                  Obviously you haven't spent weeks making a mesh and then had it ripped off! You get paid, community mappers do not. Anybody who gets paid to model would most likely have your attitude because they get PAID.

                  If you make something nice you want people to know that you made it. When you release your map, gamers get to play with all your meshes . If someone wants to use your mesh then let them email you and ask you for that particular mesh, and then credit you in the readme. However let us not forget that people who download a map online will never see your name in the credits.

                  I personally know 3 people who have gotten jobs in the game industry, who used a large portion of other people's work and did not credit them for it, and it was those portions that made the employer take notice. So employers also lose out because they might be hiring someone with no talent. This is a good reason to protect maps in some fashion.

                  I doubt you'll see the most talented people mapping for a game like UT2007 that has no way of protecting their stuff. With the increasing demand for higher quality art assets, who is going to spend weeks building a million poly mesh and not want credit for it

                  Somethings are automatically copyrighted without a need to formally copyright it.

                  Comment


                    #99
                    personally, i think it is highly unfair to attack this dude. scud has been around for a long, long time. sure, he may not be the best sportsman... no one denies he is a sore loser... BUT, everything he does is in the name of bettering people's UT experience. pretty much all of his spare time, money, and effort, goes into his server, or something else for the UT community.

                    i can see both points of view on this. but once a map is released into the public, it is fair game to be edited, remixed, and or sampled. and that is exactly what he did... sampled. he took chunks from 2 maps and put them together to make something different. he is not doing it to be cool. he is not claiming to be a map maker. he is not trying to take credit for the maps. he is not trying re-distribute them.

                    all he is doing is trying to make better game for the people on his server.

                    there are very few *good* CTF servers out there that get constant play, especially for those more 'pro' players. the darkside battlegrounds server gets constant play from players in some of the biggest CTF clans on the ladders, and has been home to 1,000s of good competetive scrims and matches. sure, people can call it newb all they want. but there is no denying that the majority of the players there have been with UT for a long time. most of them are skilled, and, in a word, bored. scud is just trying to keep everyone entertained. he runs a tight ship, always keeps it up to date, always tries to provide fresh maps, etc. with the exception of the scrap bin servers, there are very few populated servers out there that you can say the same for. give the dude a break and stop bashing him.

                    that map was your creation... i can see how you feel ripped off. but man, in the same way, you should glad that it is being used for what it was originally created for; PLAY. i agree scud should give credit to the original authors... but why don't you just ask him to do that? also, maps get re-constructed constantly. jsut look at thorns or bedrooms and the 5 million different versions of those... most people have no clue who the *original* authors were from ut99, and most dont care. they just want to play. these maps also get re-distributed with a new authors name, even though they hardly did anything except change a few textures... scud is NOT re-distributing them.

                    also, Dr Sin... maybe if we had some bonus packs/map packs coming from epic, admins wouldn't have to take such desperate matters just to get some fresh play on some professionally designed, competitive oreinted maps.

                    Comment


                      Map removed. Lesson Learned. etc. Try my new map.

                      Comment


                        Woah, Feugerstef, Angel Mapper, Frosty DrSin and the Barbarian of Bagels all joined in the fun here

                        aside from all the EULA, copyright laws, legal mumbo jumbo, and all the fine print...

                        this guy was not just taking parts of map. he would open a map. retexture it, maybe move a weapon locker or pickup. spend 15 minutes then go to the level properties, delete the authors name and save it as a different file then go out and say "Hey look! i made a map!!"

                        I have used parts of other mappers maps in things i am working on, but in each and every case, when i see something i might want to use, i start researching, finding email addresses and make sure i fully explain what parts i would like to use, and await written permission via email before i even subtract that first room. and if i DO gain their permission they are the FIRST ones to get a copy of the map since their work contributed to its creation even if its only a single static mesh, i make fully sure that those that contributed see, and approve of my usage of their work before i would ever release it.

                        then again. i actually have respect for mappers. and their work. and thats how mature people do things.

                        if this kid wants to "better the community" he should do it the right way, Gain the authors permission. LEAVE THE AUTHORS NAME ON HIS/HER MAP. and at the VERY most, attach a "modified with permisssion by a noob mapper" at the end of the level description.

                        Comment


                          I like what BBQ cooks!

                          First of all if anyone has really played some of these redone maps they would admit that they rock! They look better, they play better and add to the gaming experience for the better. I have tested many of his reworked maps and I approve of his work.

                          With that said I rarely see any of his maps on other servers (like there are so many good CTF servers anyway) and he has not gone out of his way at all to promote what he has done, but instead keeps it to himself or a very select few people. Therefore I don't see the harm. Let's not split this small community more then EPIC has already. They blew it with UT2k3, they blew it with their Browser not showing different gametypes like the UT brower did and with all of these game types it's hard to find good players and servers. Now you want us to boycott one of the best CTF servers? Silly if you ask me.

                          Stop fighting over who ripped off whom and get back to trying to make this a better gaming experience which is all I want. He has done nothing to deminish the spirit of the game nor the experience of the game, but to the contrary he tried to make it better. So he used your map and built on it, so what! Be glad he actually made it so people enjoy playing it, looking at it, and get on with your life.

                          If you want to be an artist go paint a painting, but if you want to make a map let people express themselves as long as they gain nothing from your work. BBQ gains nothing but offers a better gaming experience. Let's not get too carried away with ourselves because if EPIC made better maps BBQ would be out of business!

                          Comment


                            Amwryn said::: If this kid wants to "better the community" he should do it the right way, Gain the authors permission. LEAVE THE AUTHORS NAME ON HIS/HER MAP. and at the VERY most, attach a "modified with permisssion by a noob mapper" at the end of the level description.
                            You have a point but new names are needed to avoid version mis-matches so I understand why he changed the names. Credit SHOULD be given to the original authors but he never intended to distribute them. I suggested that he contact all of the authors to release a Map-Pack with his redone version, this way he got permission, got his maps to the public, and everyone would be fine. But that has not happened so far.

                            Comment


                              Wow.. I mean.. wow. Ok I was going to write a long reply post pointing out my experiance with copyright law.. but I realized I could sum it up like this:

                              No matter how many times you look at the moon and call it the sun.. it's still the moon and everyone else knows that.

                              Comment


                                MajikMyst, you seem to be missing a very large and obvious point that a lot of people here are making, so let me give it a try. Epic does not own 100% of the IP of any user-made map, mod, mut, etc. The person who created it does not have 100% of the IP. They share it. Because it is, in part, Epic's IP, the creators cannot sell it without permission from epic. Because it is, in part, the creator's IP, Epic cannot sell it without permission from the creator. Simple as that. If something is owned by two people, both people have to give consent for it to be sold. Simple as that. No need to go quoting the EULA, no need to go looking up Copywright laws. No need to go looking up international law. All you need to do is use some common sense, which unfortunately, most humans in this world lack.

                                As for the original topic, I see it this way. If someone uses a little bit of your map without consent its not that big of a deal. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, and if someone is going to use it, chances are its good. If someone blatantly rips off the whole map, then something is wrong. However, is it worth it to pursue it legally? No, especially since you will not be making a profit from it. Is it wrong? Absolutely. Its just not worth the hassles of courts and lawyers and various fees associated with it. Now, is it worth it to boycott the servers and bring shame to the map thief? Most definately.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X