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    #61
    building the community

    Originally posted by BeerNut
    Well.... While you can argue that more mods, muts, gametypes, etc, are a good thing... The fact of the matter is: as you broaden the # of options available, you fragment the community and lessen the # of players in each gametype.

    One of the reasons that CS is STILL so popular, is because it is what EVERYONE in that community is playing.

    please forgive my ignorance, but what the heck is "CS"? i've been playing UT irregularly since the very first version and i've never heard of this (i don't think so anyway).

    i entirely disagree with the concept that more game styles fragment the community. if the "community" is UT, then it matters not how the distribution works out between game styles. it is more of a fact that the more game styles (within reason), the better chance of attracting someone who has never played UT to try it.

    example: does Halo have a game style like Onslaught or Boming Run? i don't think so. therefore, these two game styles offer something NEW that a Halo player is not able to try otherwise.

    i rarly ever play CTF, BR, or even any form of DM since Onslaught was introduced, but once in a while i'll pop into one of these games. IMO, team DM is one of the best ways for a beginner to learn how to play UT.

    so to reiterate my main concern, i hope Epic doesn't "drop the ball", so to speak, and leave out any of the current game styles, as they are all very good and appealing to various members of the UT community.

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by infinityBBC
      please forgive my ignorance, but what the heck is "CS"?
      Probably a misunderstanding. He doesn't refer to a UT gametype. He refers to a game some call Cheater Strike others Camper Strike.

      Comment


        #63
        EXCELLENT IDEA!

        Originally posted by Ultron
        Well here's my opinion:

        I think it should just be a simple mod that turns CTF maps into BR maps, turning the flag into the goal. No issues with building custom maps, and you can use similar rules for flags being used in what vehicles, and not being able to toss it while you are in one, etc.

        I think we should keep the mod simple and small so that it's not such a big deal to download and install, and use existing CTF maps.

        this sounds like the best idea yet, as CTF maps are quite condusive to BR! is there a "best way" to get this idea to the game designers at Epic? this is the kind of idea that might make the difference whether or not BR will "make the cut".

        if Epic doesn't include BR in UT2k7, it will likely die, because as someone said here, if it isn't an option in the default install, not many new players will even know about it!

        i'm also starting to compile a "wish list" for UT that i would like Epic to consider. if anyone here knows the best way for this kind of thing to be heard, please let me know. thanks!

        Comment


          #64
          Right now, on the entire planet earth... There are 7 people playing BR. That's right: 7
          (compliments of csports.net).
          If you were Epic, how much time would you put into to development satisfying these 7 people?

          On top of that, I flat out disagree that people who play different gametypes are in the same community... They are playing the same game title. They are NOT in the same community.

          I don't play ONS... tried it, don't like it, don't play it or comment on it. How could I possibly be considered to be in the same 'community' as ONS-only players (and there are a lot of them). I never play with them in the game, I never have detailed discussions with them on the finer points of spider-mine skill, and I generally don't interact with them socially outside the game (vent, irc, etc...). The only thing that I have in common with these players is that we are both filling a spot on the master server count... There is no COMMUNITY involvement whatsoever.

          I have a request for your Epic wishlist: Get rid of the "dead-weight" gametypes that no one plays, and lets get as many people as possible playing the same game.

          Comment


            #65
            so it's, "conform or leave?"

            Originally posted by BeerNut
            Right now, on the entire planet earth... There are 7 people playing BR. That's right: 7 (compliments on csports.net).
            If you were Epic, how much time would you put into to development satisfying these 7 people?

            On top of that, I flat out disagree that people who play different gametypes are in the same community... They are playing the same game title. They are NOT in the same community.

            I don't play ONS... tried it, don't like it, don't play it or comment on it. How could I possibly be considered to be in the same 'community' as ONS-only players (and there are a lot of them). I never play with them in the game, I never have detailed discussions with them on the finer points of spider-mine skill, and I generally don't interact with them socially outside the game (vent, irc, etc...). The only thing that I have in common with these players is that we are both filling a spot on the master server count... There is no COMMUNITY involvement whatsoever.

            I have a request for your Epic wishlist: Get rid of the "dead-weight" gametypes that no one plays, and lets get as many people as possible playing the same game.

            first of all, UT is the community, isn't it? it's not a community of DM, CTF, ONS, or BR, it's UT! eveyone who has purchased and plays UT is part of the community of UT - regardless of which game style in which each person chooses to participate. perhaps someone else here besides you can correct me if i'm in error.

            i have no idea why anyone would want to make everyone to conform to play the same exact game style. that seems a bit "BIG BROTHERish" to me!

            also, did this "csports.net" poll include the few of my friends that like to pop onto a BR server every so often?

            and what exactly does "dead-weight" really mean? what development has to really happen for BR? the game is already designed! and another member posted the great idea of simply using CTF maps for BR ones, so what's the big deal with development that you are so worried about? what the heck is is hurting to allow for some freakin' options???

            i say, you don't like a particular game style, fine - more power to ya! but if others like a particular game style that isn't so popular, who cares as long as it doesn't hurt the other game styles.

            i hope the majority of members of the overall UT community feel the way i do about this.

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by infinityBBC
              ... i have no idea why anyone would want to make everyone to conform to play the same exact game style. that seems a bit "BIG BROTHERish" to me!
              ^^^LOL...

              With that, I can tell that this disagreement is headed nowhere productive. So I'll leave it with this: The most heavily played online games, in terms of player counts, are the ones that have 1 (count them: 1) gametype. I'll leave you to ponder why that is so.
              You can argue with me all you want, but don't argue with the numbers.

              Comment


                #67
                I wouldn't mind if BR was brought back in UT2k7 - it's a fun gametype. BR wouldn't neccessarily need any maps made for it, either. A basic portal that's created instead of a flag when BR is loaded. And it's not like it would take many people away from the other gametypes, since practically nobody plays it. But I think the community should come up with it. I loved classic Domination far more than BR (and I still liked BR alot) but I wouldn't want Epic to make and include that gametype in UT2k7.

                I tend to agree that games that really have one good gametype have an edge over games with a few good gametypes because there are more people playing that gametype rather than the community spread between it's varied gametypes.

                Take for example a gametype with 3000 people playing it as opposed to 4 gametypes with 3000 people distributed between them. Say CTF has 1000 people playing it in the second game, whereas the first game will have 3 times as many players, usually more servers available, etc, for that gametype.

                Furthermore there is an advantage to not having to worry about what mutators is being loaded. As often many of the mutators are silly ones, though I find that pattern has been less common with UT2k3 and UT2k4, where most server admins seem to go with more stock gameplay than in classic UT.

                That said, I like that Epic has gone for a tighter gametype list that it has in the past, and what is included in UT2k7 are the best and most popular ones from the Unreal series. I think it's a fair compromise, as I wouldn't want the series to be reduced to just one gametype.

                Comment


                  #68
                  "One Gamestyle Order" & REAL UT tweaks!

                  Originally posted by BeerNut
                  ^^^LOL...

                  With that, I can tell that this disagreement is headed nowhere productive. So I'll leave it with this: The most heavily played online games, in terms of player counts, are the ones that have 1 (count them: 1) gametype. I'll leave you to ponder why that is so.
                  You can argue with me all you want, but don't argue with the numbers.
                  LOL - yes, i thought you might get a kick out of that!

                  well, of course if there is only one gamestyle there won't be a division of people playing different ones. who cares?

                  i'm not really wanting to argue about this anyway. i will however make the observation, IMHO, that UT is the best FPS ever for the fact that there IS a diversity and balance of various weapons, AND that there is a diversity of gamestyles.

                  so i'm just one who is voicing that i hope Epic doesn't screw up UT by removing things that people like about the game - in other words, "don't fix what isn't broken!"

                  there are however, things that they CAN be fixing, IMO (3 excerpts from my "UT wish list"):

                  • filters: my main criteria for searching out a server: 1. the Goal Score is set to 3 (not 2, or worse, 1 - UGH! 8-); 2. Map Vote is enabled; 3. Voice Chat is enabled. however, i cannot seem to locate this criteria in the filter section. Epic, if you're listening, PLEASE add this criteria to the Filter options.

                  • Bot "bumping" in vehicles: players' vehicle options should always take priority over Bots. if a Bot gets into any vehicle, a player should always be able to "bump" them out of their seat. if it is a multi-person vehicle, the Bot should switch seats if the player chooses a seat where a Bot controls. if there are no seats available, the Bot should exit the vehicle. if it is a one person vehicle, the Bot should exit the vehicle.

                  • Bot "vehicle lock": it often happens where a player will park a vehicle in a strategic spot and a Bot will get in the vehicle and drive it off somewhere stupid, or into a vulnerable position. it would be great to be able to lock Bots out in such a case, until a player unlocks it.

                  so how about, if we are going to request Epic tweak UT, let's concentrate on things that will help BUILD the game up even more, rather than TEARING it down at all. after all, the fact that BR is on the list of available gamestyles should not really upset you, should it? i don't like Assault, but i don't care that it is on the list - i hope those that play it have fun... and that's really what it's all about... FUN!

                  whatcha think? peace?

                  if not, i'm going to FRAG YOU when i see you online! (oh, but i guess i won't see you as you don't play ONS or BR ;-)

                  Comment


                    #69
                    game perspectives

                    Originally posted by Ultron
                    I tend to agree that games that really have one good gametype have an edge over games with a few good gametypes because there are more people playing that gametype rather than the community spread between it's varied gametypes.
                    i suppose perhaps the idea here of a game having an edge over another is different from mine. if you are speaking of sheer numbers within one game style, as i said before, SURE! however, popularity is never the way i measure quality in anything i approach.

                    i was introduced to FPS's with Doom, and then really got into the genre playing a lot of Quake 1. i'll never forget the night i saw "Saving Private Ryan" and came back hom to dominate a Quake match for the first time... what a rush!

                    but when i first checked out Unreal, i was really impressed by the variety and balance of the weapons. over the years, i grew even more impressed with the creativity of the gamestyles that were coming out. what other game can even claim to offer anything close?

                    perhaps everyone is concerned about extra data being on multuiple CD's, etc. i don't think it matters much. also, since i have the Mac version, it's all on one single DVD, so i never give that issue much thought.

                    it just seems to me, that even if only 5% of the overall UT community like a particular gamestyle, and it doesn't hurt anyone else who doesn't like that gamestyle, why not allow them to be happy and just keep building on the overall game, rather than removing anything?

                    and a Q: i might have missed something, but in the "Classic Weapon Mod", i didn't see the Ripper. does anyone know why not, or did i just miss it. many of my friend in the community have expressed missing that very fun weapon. just curious.

                    Comment

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