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    Originally posted by 1 of 42
    When was the last time you fought a really good tank driver? I've never seen a good tanker let somebody jack his tank, unless of coruse he died.

    my personal favourite method for killing tanks is the rambo-style hop on top of tank with flak cannon from a raptor kill
    exactly... i never let my tank get jacked. i would rather go down with the ship. and THrottle i wasnt speaking as the raptor pilot. I was talking about being the tank driver who wins 9 out of 10 times against a raptor.

    Comment


      oi man here 196.4.79.29.6777
      this is a south afrika sever
      so yes some off as are noob here
      but hey if what to kick some S.A
      butt and your ping is cool plz join
      so we can c what we S.A peeps
      can do with that aimbot off your..............if we
      shoot it your die trying
      we normaly play at 21:00 S.A time

      Comment


        Originally posted by SweetTooth
        Ok you HAVE to be on crack to have posted that. There is no other explaination for your entirely flawed logic other than crack *******.

        Never done crack, dont do drugs. Drugs are bad for you. (weed isn't a drug though).

        Replying a bit to the other guy as well in this post. Had a 15 hour day today, cba making a separate reply.

        Sure, tanks have been the main staple in many wars. But ONS is not a WWII shooter. Because it is inspired by warfare games doesn't mean it should try to reproduce all their aspects. Do we really have to go through the list of things that are not in ONS but are used a lot in war irl or realistic warfare games?

        There is not any one attribute of the Goliath that makes it imbalanced per se. It is the combination of all the attributes and the bad design of most of the stock maps, that makes it overall an imbalanced vehicle (on those maps). Can a Goliath win Dria or frostbite? No. Can it win Torlan/Crossfire and often Primeval or Dawn? Yes.

        Take, just as an example, the 800hp. It's nothing major but what it means is that in most circumstances it gives the pilot (and his defender) the time to react and often the fight will end with the tank being healed before continuing and the attacker dead. Not all the time and dodge-jumping around a tank + flak primary is pretty fast, but that is not what the situation generally is. Say Torlan for example. Not even talking about the tank from the near node. But take the tank from the far node, camping from the hill. To take it out, you need to use one of your only two fast vehicles or send someone on foot (resource and time waste, while your core is going down fast). And to even get to it or even use avrils from far to kill it, you need to get past the other guy with the avril/shock/lg on the hill side. You take that tank out? There is another one from the other node. By the time your vehicle has respawned and you are past the turret, the hill sniper, and killed the second tank, the first one is back.

        So yes in real war tanks own infantry and tank shells have splash damage. But does that mean it is inherently good to have the same thing in ONS?

        ECE... yes a piece of garbage to use nice words. I very rarely play ECE maps or vehicles. The maps were ****, the skins (still have nightmares with those "Necris" dropping their weapons, popping an E and dancing to some ****ty music).
        The vehicles. The SPMA is the best named vehicle ever. But imo the other 2 are not so bad, better than the scorpion imo. The paladin is the best balanced vehicle of the 3, although I never use it, when i do play ECE. It is a defensive vehicle and does it's job well with a matching speed(any much faster would not be good), agility and offense to balance it. It's like the vehicular equivalent of the shield gun. And no I don't think the deemer was designed back in UT with the intention of being the best comeback tool in UT2004 ONS. And I really couldn't care less about the deemer, since I (almost) never play ONS with superweapons ON. That spam-copter thing is annoying but the only thing I have seen it be effective at doing is hit and run attacks. The controls are not awful, just different from a raptor because the vehicle is designed to be an air-to-ground weapon against mainly (near-)stationary targets.

        So to summarise (imho warnings apply).
        - Deemers suck, and there is no "skilled" use of the deemer. Sorry. :bulb:

        - The ECE blows many a goat, but the Paladin and spam-copter are fairly well balanced and definitely have more use than the scorpion.

        - The Goliath has a silly combination of attibutes which combined with pro-Goliath-camping maps (most stock maps and many custom ones, even some maps which are otherwise very good) + a driver with half a functioning brain, makes it imbalanced it many ways on those maps.

        As for your idea Faction, in the end it is down to the fact that in ONS advantage is cumulative(like in most games) but is strictly linked to node ownership. The more you are winning(more nodes) the easier it is, but it is not as flexible as say TDM. When maps enhance this further then comebacks become hard. Comebacks between two equally skilled teams should be possible but with the winning team having an advantage. With node distance and access balanced so that it isn't as easy to re-capture as in Dria even if the losing team is inferior or as easy to hold as Torlan, even if the winning team is inferior. 3 minute rounds suck as much as 30 minute ones. Having a whole game determined by who got the last shot on one node at one moment of the game sucks. Especially if it came down to luck for that one incident.

        One way is to always have at least two co-existing independent routes that can lead to both cores being attacked at the same time and one independent unlinked node so that you can never be reduced to just being camped in your base.

        Another way I always thought was better was to have node control be a mainly positional advantage rather than a logistics advantage (in terms of vehicles mainly). So if you capture an enemy node, it spawns different vehicles. For example, no tanks would spawn in close secondary nodes owned by the enemy. You have more vehicles (especially fast ones for transport) if you are winning but the advantage is not as huge as with the current setup.

        yeah, I ramble a lot.:sour:

        Comment


          Originally posted by rhiryd flaidd

          And yeah, faction, you are a better player than me; if I remember you right......
          It'd be wrong to say I'm a better player. I only said that If you attack my tank you'd not survive. Ons is so much more than tank skills.

          I did play you quite a few times when I played for «ne» though, so I might be the player you remember. Just my style has changed since, I don't really bother with the tanks anymore.

          Comment


            Ah faction, so you are who I remember then.

            My playing style is unchanged - the same old suicidal headlong charges ! I'm getting pretty good at taking out tanks though.

            Pop over to Titan sometime and we can find out for real!

            It might just be me that's playing so much 32 man ONS now that I don't percieve tanks as being overpowered. And even if a tank digs in somewhere impregnable e.g. inside a cave, there are always other vulnerable nodes to attack and cut off that node another way (assuming our team has the skills to turn the tide of a game.)

            So we seem to be reaching a consensus that it's the maps that are the problem. The answer is not in changing the vehichles but changing the maps. Titan, for example, is now working on Torlan to try to get it to flow better.

            The SPMA is great for novices - as long as they don't bomb their teammates who are trying to build a node. Otherwise it's inoccuous.

            But if I had a lineup of all the vehichles - including the levi, I'd choose the cicada. It's great fun; as long as you remember to take full advantage of it's speed along the Z axis.

            The problem with longer respawns as you go deeper into attack is that holding the core linked node in Dria, for example would be even more difficult - leading to even more stalemates. Once again the answer is to ensure that each base has enough firepower to break out and retake a node.

            And chokepoints have to go. There should never be a map layout where both sides are forced to fight over a single node.

            Comment


              Originally posted by SweetTooth
              exactly... i never let my tank get jacked. i would rather go down with the ship. and THrottle i wasnt speaking as the raptor pilot. I was talking about being the tank driver who wins 9 out of 10 times against a raptor.
              I understood that, you were describing your tactics for defeating 9 out of 10 raptors with a tank, and I was describing how I exploit such tactics when I am in a raptor.
              Basically, the tank can't touch me, even the .50 cal turret can't aim straight up, so I just lay right above him about 20 feet in the air, blasting away until the frantic tank driver either "goes down with the ship" or he jumps out to hitscan me. I can usually fall into his tank faster than he can run back to it, ergo, jacked tank.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Throttlebottom
                I understood that, you were describing your tactics for defeating 9 out of 10 raptors with a tank, and I was describing how I exploit such tactics when I am in a raptor.
                Basically, the tank can't touch me, even the .50 cal turret can't aim straight up, so I just lay right above him about 20 feet in the air, blasting away until the frantic tank driver either "goes down with the ship" or he jumps out to hitscan me. I can usually fall into his tank faster than he can run back to it, ergo, jacked tank.

                A nice tip - the alt fire of the raptor fires a missile that does like 150-200 ish damage. Wait till the tanks on fire, then shoot him with the missile and you catch the tank driver unawares and quite often blow it up with him in there, saving you hassle.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Throttlebottom
                  I can usually fall into his tank faster than he can run back to it, ergo, jacked tank.
                  No decent tank driver will let that happen. Either he'll bail only when his tank is low on health, meaning that he'll easily destroy his own tank as soon as you stupidly jack it, or he'll be so close to his tank that he'll get there first. (Then you might land on top and flak it to death, but that's another problem entirely. )

                  Your tactic only works against bad tank drivers. For example: I've often lost my tank to Raptors, especially tightly coordinated double-Raptor offensives by really good clans in Dawn, but I haven't had my tank jacked in almost a year - except for those cases where I allowed it to be jacked and destroyed it immediately afteward. Against an experienced tank driver, it just doesn't happen unless the planets have fallen into some extraordinary alignment.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Throttlebottom
                    I understood that, you were describing your tactics for defeating 9 out of 10 raptors with a tank, and I was describing how I exploit such tactics when I am in a raptor.
                    Basically, the tank can't touch me, even the .50 cal turret can't aim straight up, so I just lay right above him about 20 feet in the air, blasting away until the frantic tank driver either "goes down with the ship" or he jumps out to hitscan me. I can usually fall into his tank faster than he can run back to it, ergo, jacked tank.
                    It's not hard to avoid that. I'd never get out of a tank with more than 100 health unless I thought the Raptor was going to fire a missile at me, as Faction described above (a tactic I use myself often). I'd see (or hear) you bail from the Raptor, switch to flak or rockets, and kill the tank as soon as you got in. I tend to turn the turret of the tank away as I get out, and you'd have to spin to hit me with it. Too late.

                    Comment


                      I must just be facing dumb tank drivers then, as very few I've encountered have the patience to wait while I slowly chip their tank from 800 armor to 100 armor before bailing out. They almost always jump out immediately once they realize they can't hit me with anything the tank has.

                      And thanks for the tip about the rockets, I mainly just used them for dogfights, didn't realize they caused that much damage to other vehicles.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Throttlebottom
                        I must just be facing dumb tank drivers then, as very few I've encountered have the patience to wait while I slowly chip their tank from 800 armor to 100 armor before bailing out. They almost always jump out immediately once they realize they can't hit me with anything the tank has.

                        And thanks for the tip about the rockets, I mainly just used them for dogfights, didn't realize they caused that much damage to other vehicles.
                        yeah you probably are dealing with stupid tank drivers. If you ask any NA team im prety much known for being THE tank *****. You can kill my tank all day long but im still accomplishing my job in delaying your team. And you will NEVER get my tank unless there are 10,000 different factors all compounding to make me play ****ty or die when i shouldnt. Any tank driver worth his salt will NEVER let the enemy get his tank and drive away with it.

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