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    #61
    Originally posted by olobley
    @-[LoR]-
    You got watercooling into your shuttle?
    What did you use for that, as I'm highly interested in doing the same!

    Cheers.
    It came as standard! So i was quite shocked to realise since i didn't order it.

    Contact shuttle and ask them.

    Comment


      #62
      After a lot of online research before buying my new system, I reached the conclusion that:

      **PC gaming hardware is getting WAY out ahead of the software**

      I read, for example, that several top current games don't support SLI and run poorly on a system with SLI...also, I don't need to pay for two graphics cards to get 90 fps when 65 fps will do just fine...also, ATI will be coming out with a better answer to Nvidia's SLI soon...

      If SLI is still the sh*t in a few years, and most games are coded for it...I'll get a new system that has it..and when I get it I'll get 2 top-end cards

      512MB video cards? OH PLEEEEEZ
      64-bit CPU & OS with more than 4GB RAM? OH PLEEEEEZ
      Dual-Core/multi-threading? OH PLEEEEEZ

      The games that will be coming out simply will not need such technologies to run well

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by SwellFello
        After a lot of online research before buying my new system, I reached the conclusion that:

        **PC gaming hardware is getting WAY out ahead of the software**

        I read, for example, that several top current games don't support SLI and run poorly on a system with SLI...also, I don't need to pay for two graphics cards to get 90 fps when 65 fps will do just fine...also, ATI will be coming out with a better answer to Nvidia's SLI soon...

        If SLI is still the sh*t in a few years, and most games are coded for it...I'll get a new system that has it..and when I get it I'll get 2 top-end cards
        I agree. Right now, I wouldn't touch SLI with a ten foot pole. If you have a ton of money and time to fool with it and like to stay on the bleeding edge, then sure... why not. My approach is to stay a bit behind the curve and then wait for the 2nd or 3rd revision of some new technology before I jump in. So today, it's still AGP and single vid card solutions for me.

        Comment


          #64
          Pretty much my thinking Folk...

          The 2 "new" techs I got with my system are 64-bit capability and PCI Express, but did not pay a lot extra for them...and both have been around for a while and may be utilized somewhat in the near future

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by SwellFello
            After a lot of online research before buying my new system, I reached the conclusion that:

            **PC gaming hardware is getting WAY out ahead of the software**
            ....
            Sort of....

            If you are referring to newer top-end systems, then yes... Software currently is not being developed to utilize all of the bells and whistles that are out there... HOWEVER, you have to keep in mind that these 'leet machines' are a relatively SMALL percentage of the total PC's out there... The 'average' home PC out there right now is probably closer to like a 1.6ghz, 384 RAM, Geforce 4, etc... If you look at it this way, developers aren't THAT far out of line with the PC owning populace in terms of system requirements to play.

            Developers try to walk the line between making a cutting-edge game, and a game that more than 5% of the PC-owning population can actually run... As a result, they are forced to tone it down for newer technologies.

            Comment


              #66
              BeerNut hit it exactly right: if developers made PC games only for the 'Uber 1337' machines, they would not be able to sell enough copies to stay in business

              The PC HARDWARE market keeps the profits coming by constantly pushing the tech envelope

              The PC SOFTWARE market stays profitable by selling the maximum amount of copies

              ...Thus, these two market segments are at odds with each other because you will not NEED the latest hardware to run the latest software

              Comment


                #67
                @ -[LoR]- again!
                I've had a nose round the shuttle website, and can't see one with watercooling!
                Are you sure it's not the heatpipe setup?
                What model# is your shuttle?

                Thanks!

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by BeerNut
                  The 'average' home PC out there right now is probably closer to like a 1.6ghz, 384 RAM, Geforce 4, etc...
                  I stumbled across an absolutely fascinating site the other day. Valve's "Steam" software records information about it's users. They have summarized that info here. So what you're seeing is a cross-section of today's hardware as it relates to (basically) CS/HL players. So it's not an average home PC, but an average gamers PC.

                  According to their survey, the average machine is:

                  2.0 to 2.3 Ghz (Intel and AMD split almost down the middle)
                  256 to 512 RAM
                  ATI Radeon 9800 or Nvidia GF4 series vid card
                  70 to 80 GB Hard drive with 10 to 20 GB free
                  DVD Drive
                  256Kbps Internet connection
                  Windows XP SP2
                  Playing at 1024x768x16

                  That would still put the average gaming system about three generations behind the current tech. For all you folks with better rigs.... cheers. :up:

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Yep...the "rig" I'm replacing is:

                    P4 2GHz
                    768MB RAM
                    Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Venael[FatZ]
                      Yea, you can't join an Active Directory Domain with XP Home, or use Remote Desktop. As for gaming performance, or any application performance for that matter there is no difference. It always amuses me why some people insist that XP Pro will offer increased performance over XP Home without having the first idea what they're talking about. I get the feeling that the guy who posted the above quote is simply regurgitating any information he has heard from a 3rd party and passing it on as his opinion.
                      Ok, i just thought i would clarify what diffrences there may be. I looked this up in less than 10 sec:up:

                      Here

                      The following features are not present in Windows XP Home Edition.

                      Power user
                      Remote Desktop - All versions of Windows XP--including Home Edition--support Remote Assistance, which is an assisted support technology that allows a help desk or system administrator to remotely connect to a client desktop for troubleshooting purposes. But Only Pro supports the new Remote Desktop feature, which is a single-session version of Terminal Services with two obvious uses: Mobile professionals who need to remotely access their corporate desktop, and remote administration of clients on a network. You can access a Windows XP Remote Desktop from any OS that supports a Terminal Services client (such as Windows 98 and, interestingly XP Home). XP Home can act as the client in a Remote Desktop session; only Pro can be the server.
                      Multi-processor support - Windows XP Pro supports up to two microprocessors, while Home Edition supports only one.
                      Automated System Recovery (ASR) - In a somewhat controversial move, Microsoft has removed the Backup utility from the default Windows XP Home Edition, though it is available as an optional installation if you can find it on the CD-ROM (hint: it's in the /valueadd folder). The reason for this the integration of Microsoft's new Automated System Recovery (ASR) tool into Backup. In Pro, ASR will help recover a system from a catastrophic error, such as one that renders the system unbootable. ASR-enabled backups are triggerable from XP Setup, allowing you to return your system to its previous state, even if the hard drive dies and has to be replaced. Unlike consumer-oriented features such as System Restore, ASR is not automatic: It must manually be enabled from within the Backup utility in Windows XP Pro. In any event, while there is a Backup utility available for Home Edition, you cannot use ASR, even though mentions of this feature still exist in the UI. Confusing? Yes. But it's better than no Backup at all, which was the original plan.
                      Dynamic Disk Support - Windows XP Professional (like its Windows 2000 equivalent) supports dynamic disks, but Home Edition does not (instead, HE supports only the standard Simple Disk type). Dynamic disks are not usable with any OS other than Windows 2000 or Windows XP Pro, and they cannot be used on portable computers. Likewise, Home Edition does not include the Logical Disk Manager.
                      Fax - Home Edition has no integrated fax functionality out of the box, though it is an option you can install from the XP Home CD.
                      Internet Information Services/Personal Web Server - Home Edition does not include the IIS Web server 5.1 software found in Pro.

                      Security
                      Encrypting File System - Windows XP Professional supports the Encrypting File System (EFS), which allows you encrypt individual files or folders for local security (EFS is not enabled over a network). EFS-protected files and folders allows users to protect sensitive documents from other users.
                      File-level access control - Any user with Administrator privileges can limit access to certain network resources, such as servers, directories, and files, using access control lists. Only Windows XP Professional supports file-level access control, mostly because this feature is typically implemented through Group Policy Objects, which are also not available in Home Edition.
                      "C2" certification - Microsoft will attempt to have Windows XP Professional certified with the "C2" security designation, a largely irrelevant status, but one which will not be afforded to Home Edition.

                      Management
                      Domain membership - Home Edition cannot be used to logon to an Active Directory domain. For obvious reasons, the Domain Wizard is also missing in Home Edition.
                      Group Policy - Since Home Edition cannot be used to logon to an Active Directory domain, Group Policy--whereby applications, network resources, and operating systems are administered for domain users--is not supported either.
                      IntelliMirror - Microsoft lumps a wide range of semi-related change and configuration management technologies under the IntelliMirror umbrella, and none of these features are supported in the consumer oriented Home Edition. IntelliMirror capabilities include user data management; centrally-managed software installation, repair, updating, and removal; user settings management; and Remote Installation Services (RIS), which allows administrators to remotely install the OS on client systems.
                      Roaming profiles - This feature allows users to logon to any computer in an Active Directory network and automatically receive their customized settings. It is not available in Home Edition, which cannot logon to an Active Directory domain.
                      Corporate deployment
                      Multi-language support - Only Windows XP Professional will ship in a Multi-Language version or support multiple languages in a single install.
                      Sysprep support - Windows XP Pro will support the System Preparation (Sysprep) utility, while Home Edition will not.
                      RIS support - See the IntelliMirror heading in the previous section; Home Edition does not support RIS deployments.

                      64-bit Edition
                      Microsoft is shipping a 64-bit version of Windows XP for Intel Itanium systems that mirrors the Professional Edition feature-set.

                      Networking features
                      The following networking features are not included in Home Edition:
                      The user interface for IPSecurity (IPSec)
                      SNMP
                      Simple TCP/IP services
                      SAP Agent
                      Client Service for NetWare
                      Network Monitor
                      Multiple Roaming feature

                      User interface features
                      Windows XP Home Edition has some different default settings that affect the user interface. For example, Guest logon is on by default in Home, but off in Pro. The Address bar in Explorer windows is on in Pro by default, but off in Home. During the beta period, Microsoft had intended to use a business-oriented shell theme ("Professional") by default in Pro and the "Luna" consumer theme in Home Edition. But feedback from corporate users suggested that everyone liked the consumer-oriented Luna theme better, and development of the Professional theme was cancelled. Other user interface features that are present in Pro but not Home include:
                      Client-side caching

                      Administrative Tools option on the Start menu (a subset of the Admin tools are still present in Home, however).
                      It's also worth mentioning that Home Edition will support upgrades from Windows 98, 98 SE, and Millennium Edition (Me), but not from Windows 95, NT 4.0 Workstation, or Windows 2000 Professional. You can upgrade from Windows 98, 98 SE, Millennium Edition (Me), Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, or Windows 2000 Professional to Windows XP Professional. See my article on What to Expect from Windows XP for more information.
                      Deciding which edition to buy is simple: Peruse the above list and decide whether you can live without any of these features. If you can't, then you're going to want to get Professional. Otherwise, save $100 and get Home Edition. Note that Microsoft is offering a less-expensive Professional "Step-Up" upgrade for Home users that wish to move to XP Pro. Here

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Folk
                        I stumbled across an absolutely fascinating site the other day. Valve's "Steam" software records information about it's users. So it's not an average home PC, but an average gamers PC.

                        That would still put the average gaming system about three generations behind the current tech. For all you folks with better rigs.... cheers. :up:
                        Nice find Folk ... interesting :up:

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Phear
                          Ok, i just thought i would clarify what diffrences there may be. I looked this up in less than 10 sec:up:

                          Here

                          The following features are not present in Windows XP Home Edition.

                          Power user
                          Remote Desktop - All versions of Windows XP--including Home Edition--support Remote Assistance, which is an assisted support technology that allows a help desk or system administrator to remotely connect to a client desktop for troubleshooting purposes. But Only Pro supports the new Remote Desktop feature, which is a single-session version of Terminal Services with two obvious uses: Mobile professionals who need to remotely access their corporate desktop, and remote administration of clients on a network. You can access a Windows XP Remote Desktop from any OS that supports a Terminal Services client (such as Windows 98 and, interestingly XP Home). XP Home can act as the client in a Remote Desktop session; only Pro can be the server.
                          Multi-processor support - Windows XP Pro supports up to two microprocessors, while Home Edition supports only one.
                          Automated System Recovery (ASR) - In a somewhat controversial move, Microsoft has removed the Backup utility from the default Windows XP Home Edition, though it is available as an optional installation if you can find it on the CD-ROM (hint: it's in the /valueadd folder). The reason for this the integration of Microsoft's new Automated System Recovery (ASR) tool into Backup. In Pro, ASR will help recover a system from a catastrophic error, such as one that renders the system unbootable. ASR-enabled backups are triggerable from XP Setup, allowing you to return your system to its previous state, even if the hard drive dies and has to be replaced. Unlike consumer-oriented features such as System Restore, ASR is not automatic: It must manually be enabled from within the Backup utility in Windows XP Pro. In any event, while there is a Backup utility available for Home Edition, you cannot use ASR, even though mentions of this feature still exist in the UI. Confusing? Yes. But it's better than no Backup at all, which was the original plan.
                          Dynamic Disk Support - Windows XP Professional (like its Windows 2000 equivalent) supports dynamic disks, but Home Edition does not (instead, HE supports only the standard Simple Disk type). Dynamic disks are not usable with any OS other than Windows 2000 or Windows XP Pro, and they cannot be used on portable computers. Likewise, Home Edition does not include the Logical Disk Manager.
                          Fax - Home Edition has no integrated fax functionality out of the box, though it is an option you can install from the XP Home CD.
                          Internet Information Services/Personal Web Server - Home Edition does not include the IIS Web server 5.1 software found in Pro.

                          Security
                          Encrypting File System - Windows XP Professional supports the Encrypting File System (EFS), which allows you encrypt individual files or folders for local security (EFS is not enabled over a network). EFS-protected files and folders allows users to protect sensitive documents from other users.
                          File-level access control - Any user with Administrator privileges can limit access to certain network resources, such as servers, directories, and files, using access control lists. Only Windows XP Professional supports file-level access control, mostly because this feature is typically implemented through Group Policy Objects, which are also not available in Home Edition.
                          "C2" certification - Microsoft will attempt to have Windows XP Professional certified with the "C2" security designation, a largely irrelevant status, but one which will not be afforded to Home Edition.

                          Management
                          Domain membership - Home Edition cannot be used to logon to an Active Directory domain. For obvious reasons, the Domain Wizard is also missing in Home Edition.
                          Group Policy - Since Home Edition cannot be used to logon to an Active Directory domain, Group Policy--whereby applications, network resources, and operating systems are administered for domain users--is not supported either.
                          IntelliMirror - Microsoft lumps a wide range of semi-related change and configuration management technologies under the IntelliMirror umbrella, and none of these features are supported in the consumer oriented Home Edition. IntelliMirror capabilities include user data management; centrally-managed software installation, repair, updating, and removal; user settings management; and Remote Installation Services (RIS), which allows administrators to remotely install the OS on client systems.
                          Roaming profiles - This feature allows users to logon to any computer in an Active Directory network and automatically receive their customized settings. It is not available in Home Edition, which cannot logon to an Active Directory domain.
                          Corporate deployment
                          Multi-language support - Only Windows XP Professional will ship in a Multi-Language version or support multiple languages in a single install.
                          Sysprep support - Windows XP Pro will support the System Preparation (Sysprep) utility, while Home Edition will not.
                          RIS support - See the IntelliMirror heading in the previous section; Home Edition does not support RIS deployments.

                          64-bit Edition
                          Microsoft is shipping a 64-bit version of Windows XP for Intel Itanium systems that mirrors the Professional Edition feature-set.

                          Networking features
                          The following networking features are not included in Home Edition:
                          The user interface for IPSecurity (IPSec)
                          SNMP
                          Simple TCP/IP services
                          SAP Agent
                          Client Service for NetWare
                          Network Monitor
                          Multiple Roaming feature

                          User interface features
                          Windows XP Home Edition has some different default settings that affect the user interface. For example, Guest logon is on by default in Home, but off in Pro. The Address bar in Explorer windows is on in Pro by default, but off in Home. During the beta period, Microsoft had intended to use a business-oriented shell theme ("Professional") by default in Pro and the "Luna" consumer theme in Home Edition. But feedback from corporate users suggested that everyone liked the consumer-oriented Luna theme better, and development of the Professional theme was cancelled. Other user interface features that are present in Pro but not Home include:
                          Client-side caching

                          Administrative Tools option on the Start menu (a subset of the Admin tools are still present in Home, however).
                          It's also worth mentioning that Home Edition will support upgrades from Windows 98, 98 SE, and Millennium Edition (Me), but not from Windows 95, NT 4.0 Workstation, or Windows 2000 Professional. You can upgrade from Windows 98, 98 SE, Millennium Edition (Me), Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, or Windows 2000 Professional to Windows XP Professional. See my article on What to Expect from Windows XP for more information.
                          Deciding which edition to buy is simple: Peruse the above list and decide whether you can live without any of these features. If you can't, then you're going to want to get Professional. Otherwise, save $100 and get Home Edition. Note that Microsoft is offering a less-expensive Professional "Step-Up" upgrade for Home users that wish to move to XP Pro. Here
                          Too much information .... maybe publish this post as a book next itme will yah :bulb: :down:

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by Big_Iron
                            Nice find Folk ... interesting :up:
                            I thought so.

                            Where ya been.... under a rock? :haha:

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by Big_Iron
                              Too much information .... maybe publish this post as a book next itme will yah :bulb: :down:
                              THATS A GREAT IDEA....:P
                              I just thought i would attempt to support my claim earlyer in the thread, sorry its so long.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by SwellFello
                                Pretty much my thinking Folk...

                                The 2 "new" techs I got with my system are 64-bit capability and PCI Express, but did not pay a lot extra for them...and both have been around for a while and may be utilized somewhat in the near future
                                I don't mean to bust your chops, but how do you figure that a P4 660 can give you 64-bit capability? Did you mean "performance equal to a 64-bit AMD running a 32-bit OS and apps"? A P4 cannot utilize the the huge amounts of ram that a 64-bit Athlon can (or any other 64-bit proc for that matter).


                                Originally posted by Sabo
                                if ya that stupid, you dont deserve a l33t computar tbh
                                Yeah, right. Not everyone that uses a computer has the time or inclination to figure out how they work and how to tweak them, much less build one. I have a friend who is a doctor. He's a tech geek, as in one of those guys that has to have all of the latest greatest toys. I totally trust him in surgery, but I'll be darned if I would let him near the inside of my computer.

                                Comment

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