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EPIC: Custom Models, Mods 'n' Bots

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    EPIC: Custom Models, Mods 'n' Bots

    I've been ******** about this for a while now, but here goes

    Models/skins, and bot selection in matches, is done through .upl files. Every model and skin you have installed uses one.
    One of the parameters in there is the Menu="" bit, and I'd like to suggest some additions to solve quite a few problems.

    ----

    At the moment, the Menu="" options that can be chosen are:

    Menu="SP": Players can select, can be selected as bots.
    Menu="DUP": Not in the Player menu, but can be selected as bots.
    Menu="CUSTOM" (not literally - actually something made in the mod code) - used for mods... and yet still truns up as bots in the normal game.

    And UNLOCK, but I won't go over that.

    **when I say can be selected as bots, I mean they randomly turn up in Instant Action/Servers w/ bots.

    ----

    Problem 1 -- Skins without team colours get randomly chosen for team games with every skin

    Solution: Create a new Menu="" parameter that could be used for each of the following:

    Menu="DM" - for skins without teamskins. Are only chosen as bots for non-teamgames.

    Menu="RED" - for skins without teamskins, but that have a normal colour being red. Are only ever put on Red team in teamgames.

    Menu="BLUE" - as above, but blue.

    Problem 2 -- Models for Total Conversion's are selected in the normal game, and only show up as your default character.

    (anyone who plays offline, and had RO or other TC's installed knows hwta I'm talking about...)

    Solution: Allow custom Menu="" settings, and with these models do not get selected in regular play, but only for that mod.

    ----

    [end]

    #2
    :up:

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      #3
      :up:

      Comment


        #4
        Finaly, a usefull thread... and I didnt understand a sht of it! :bulb:

        Anyways... :up:

        Comment


          #5
          Re: EPIC: Custom Models, Mods 'n' Bots

          Originally posted by Shuri
          Problem 1 -- Skins without team colours get randomly chosen for team games with every skin

          Solution: Create a new Menu="" parameter that could be used for each of the following:

          Menu="DM" - for skins without teamskins. Are only chosen as bots for non-teamgames.

          Menu="RED" - for skins without teamskins, but that have a normal colour being red. Are only ever put on Red team in teamgames.

          Menu="BLUE" - as above, but blue.

          Problem 2 -- Models for Total Conversion's are selected in the normal game, and only show up as your default character.

          (anyone who plays offline, and had RO or other TC's installed knows hwta I'm talking about...)

          Solution: Allow custom Menu="" settings, and with these models do not get selected in regular play, but only for that mod.
          Both good suggestions. I'm not sure that the teamgame one is that much of an issue - these are custom models, so you don't have to have the entries for skins that don't support team colours. I don't know about you, but I don't keep the individual UPL files for each character, I paste them into a few large UPL files which serve as custom botlists, and then switch those in and out as necessary.

          The custom entry thing is a good idea - only certain entries and blanks should be displayed in the menu, rather than any entry except DUP as seems to be the case at the moment. But it should also be possible to bypass the UPL files entirely or put them in a directory where UT2003 doesn't look. UPLs are a UT2003 thing rather than an Unreal engine thing, so they should be irrelevant to a proper total conversion.

          (Edit: Oh, and the reason models from MODs show up in the menu but not in the game is usually because they use a custom species type. If you create a new UPL entry that gives them a species type of Merc, you can use them in the normal game).

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Re: EPIC: Custom Models, Mods 'n' Bots

            Originally posted by Doctor7
            I'm not sure that the teamgame one is that much of an issue - these are custom models, so you don't have to have the entries for skins that don't support team colours. I don't know about you, but I don't keep the individual UPL files for each character, I paste them into a few large UPL files which serve as custom botlists, and then switch those in and out as necessary.
            I do the same, but we shouldn't have switch between listings tbh. It would make it a lot more functional this way.

            But it should also be possible to bypass the UPL files entirely or put them in a directory where UT2003 doesn't look.
            I didn't mention that, but it would be ideal. If only we could have the ability to have Paths=../RedOrchestra/System/*.upl (for example), then we could put the .upl's in the specific mod directory, and they wouldn't even be used in the normal games.

            Oh, and the reason models from MODs show up in the menu but not in the game is usually because they use a custom species type. If you create a new UPL entry that gives them a species type of Merc, you can use them in the normal game.
            I don't think so, although it's connected (but correct me if I'm wrong). I think it's because of the Paths=.. settings in the UT2003.ini, and equivalent .ini's for the TC's.

            In the default UT2003.ini it only searches in the default paths -
            Paths=../System/*.u
            Paths=../Maps/*.ut2
            Paths=../Textures/*.utx
            Paths=../Sounds/*.uax
            Paths=../Music/*.umx
            Paths=../StaticMeshes/*.usx
            Paths=../Animations/*.ukx
            Paths=../Saves/*.uvx

            Whereas a total conversion generally installs itself in a seperate directory, and so - to pick on Red Orchestra again:
            Paths=../RedOrchestra/System/*.u
            Paths=../RedOrchestra/Maps/*.ut2
            Paths=../RedOrchestra/Textures/*.utx
            Paths=../RedOrchestra/Sounds/*.uax
            Paths=../RedOrchestra/Music/*.ogg
            Paths=../RedOrchestra/StaticMeshes/*.usx
            Paths=../RedOrchestra/Animations/*.ukx
            Paths=../RedOrchestra/Saves/*.uvx

            So the model files for those models referenced in the mod's .upl's are in a directory that isn't looked in by the default game. You could add the directories as paths the game looks in, and you'd be able to see the actual model instead of your default character - but to come back to your custom species comment, I think this renders you unable to play online.

            Since the .upl's have to be placed in \UT2003\System, the game always sees them, even when the models they reference aren't found. Perhaps it should just ignore bot entries for models it can't find?

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              #7
              I'm not letting this drop damnit.

              Or tantrum mode will kick in...

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                #8
                can i have some water with that

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                  #9
                  U da man shuri, BTW nice to see ya, i aint in LKS no more as u can see

                  Comment


                    #10
                    // Doctor7
                    The reason you get Gorge is because UT'03 can't find the mesh for the character you've chosen (pick any RO-character and you'll get Gorge, because like Shuri said it can't find the resources).

                    Changing the species to 'merc' (or any of the official species) won't help at all as species not only contains the default voice, painsounds, skeleton and ragdoll for each gender of the character-race. (there's only one set of gibs though)

                    So you'd definitely cause problems for your 'new' character as the ragdoll wouldn't work correctly (possibly even cause a crash) and the skeleton would be 'wrong'.

                    // --
                    I think that the 'menu'-property was/is broken not fully functional in UT'03 (at least IIRC I saw it on this forum).

                    IMHO characters without proper teamskins should be kicked from all servers by default. It is a sign of a lazy skinner ...

                    I'd definitely would like a chance to be able to define which set of bots gets chosen for a team/gametype. However the menu-property would not work, unless the game assumed a skin/model was DM-only. Anything else would still allow lazy skinners/modellers (and cheaters/lamers) to get a non-teamcoloured character in a teamgame.

                    Also keep in mind that something should be done to protect the default characters from lamers as well. At the moment the servers can check for a modified xPlayersL1.upl-file. I wish they could check for modified skins/meshes instead as it would be impossible to use the menu-property as a 'filter'. You couldn't set Gorge to 'RED', because the server would see you modified the file without being able to see that you didn't mean to cheat ...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by JaFO(JBE)
                      IMHO characters without proper teamskins should be kicked from all servers by default. It is a sign of a lazy skinner ...
                      True about lazy skinners, but I don't think people should be kicked for that. After all, many people still play with team beacons/without brightskins. And you only see it if you have that skin installed.

                      I'd definitely would like a chance to be able to define which set of bots gets chosen for a team/gametype. However the menu-property would not work, unless the game assumed a skin/model was DM-only. Anything else would still allow lazy skinners/modellers (and cheaters/lamers) to get a non-teamcoloured character in a teamgame.
                      I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. If a skinner made a skin without team colours, then they are either clever and set it to Menu="DM", or they are stupid and they don't. If they don't, people would/should know to change it to that. I'd say it's better for them to be lazy in the system I want, then the current system - where I don't install nearly any skin without team colours, for the reason that they get picked in teamgames.

                      And there could be an option in User.ini: something like ClientSideSkinPreferences=True. With this on, it'd use your own Menu="" settings in the .upl's for everything.
                      For example:

                      You have a skin installed, which doesn't have teamskins - you have Menu="DM" set. A player joins a server playing CTF with that skin - you don't see it, instead you see your default model.

                      You couldn't set Gorge to 'RED', because the server would see you modified the file without being able to see that you didn't mean to cheat ...
                      You wouldn't need to though... I can't really see any reason you would need to anyway.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by JaFO(JBE)
                        Changing the species to 'merc' (or any of the official species) won't help at all as species not only contains the default voice, painsounds, skeleton and ragdoll for each gender of the character-race. (there's only one set of gibs though)

                        So you'd definitely cause problems for your 'new' character as the ragdoll wouldn't work correctly (possibly even cause a crash) and the skeleton would be 'wrong'.
                        Depends on the model. It works perfectly with the Shattered Oasis characters, and probably will for any 'normal' humans where the animations have been built on the merc skeleton. The only reason why the SO ones don't work immediately is that the species type they are set to is not loaded by the normal game.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Wait wait!
                          You cant see the models anyway I thought!
                          They are too small, and blend too well!!
                          Look at the arrow, or lack of one

                          Also, 99% of the players out there dont use friendly fire, so you mostly only lose rounds for an oops. It also requires you to Know yer Foe, adding a lil more challenge.

                          Anywho, it would be nice if modlers ect. DID make team skins, but I didnt really need it in UT, and I dont have too many problems. Besides, in UT when they did make theme based skins, they looked really stupid anywho. Some skins just arent ment for that..

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by HS SPoT
                            Wait wait!
                            You cant see the models anyway I thought!
                            They are too small, and blend too well!!
                            Look at the arrow, or lack of one

                            Also, 99% of the players out there dont use friendly fire, so you mostly only lose rounds for an oops. It also requires you to Know yer Foe, adding a lil more challenge.
                            That is not a good solution :sour:

                            Comment


                              #15
                              It wasnt a solution, rather a lack of a real problem IMO...

                              We use custom models all the time and I rarely have trouble distigueshing teams apart. Its usualy a close quarters, round the corner oops with FF on.

                              Anywho, UT2k4 will support multiple teams(methinks) so there will be a reason the multicolor the models, as Its quite a bit mor confusing for mutiple teams.

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