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ZeroPing.....The Lost Mutator

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    #31
    talk about an old topic lol

    i love zp

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      #32
      ive never played with zeroping, but i have used other mutators that do the same thing. with these shots of shooting people that have gone around corners, that isnt bs and doesnt need to be fixed, cause the simple fact remains that the high ping player shot that person BEFORE they went around the corner, just that cause of the ping, that info only reaches the player after they have gone around the corner.

      i play with 240 ping cause im on dialup, but with these around corner shots happening to low pingers when a high pinger shoots them, its is the exact opposite on the high pinger when no zero ping is in use. if the low pinger shoots me as im going around the corner, ill get around the corner and be safe, then just be suddenly back in the open and dead.

      i dont want to see epic officially support these kind of mutators, but its always good to have the community support them and have them there as an option, but having it forced apon people would suck, especially because although dialup is still fairly common these days (i do believe there is still more people on dialup than broadband) in a years time when ut2007 is out broadband will be far more common.

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        #33
        Hmm can someone explain to me how ut works as it is, (without zp that is)

        I've seen nothing but bad things from ut2k4 netcode 130 ping to cains lair is a night mare. if someone could shed some light on this then maybe i wouldnt be miffed any more.. so if im in a hell bender with a charged cannon i tend to miss mantas that are changing direction alot despite being dead on with the crosshairs..

        i know half life has zero ping client side, that checks back in a buffer on the server to see if the shot really hit, so still the server can say bullets went else were but for the most part 99% of everything you see hit the other guy does hit the other guy.

        also i was downloading torrents had a 250 ping and was 1on1 with a UED guy from 3dbuzz and my shock beams would come up on the screen a second after i clicked and the other guy had clearly moved by then. is ut2k4 a lag lead game? do i lead my lag and no one elses?

        tbh whats the point of hit scan or istant weapons if they dont maintain that illiusion on the client side.

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          #34
          Originally posted by ScoutBZ
          Hmm can someone explain to me how ut works as it is, (without zp that is)

          I've seen nothing but bad things from ut2k4 netcode 130 ping to cains lair is a night mare. if someone could shed some light on this then maybe i wouldnt be miffed any more.. so if im in a hell bender with a charged cannon i tend to miss mantas that are changing direction alot despite being dead on with the crosshairs..
          UT2k4's default netcode is quite simple. All of your running and dodging moves are simulated clientside and then dictated to the server. When you fire a shot, it's processed using the current server information in mind; this also means that the shot is fired from the position and direction you were clientside when you fired, but the server doesn't compensate for the fact that what you see is delayed by X ms and that there is also an Y delay between firing and the shot arriving on the server (where X+Y=ping and approximately X=Y) so you have to lead by the amount of your ping.
          So yeah, when you have a ping of 130 and have your crosshair directly on a Manta, it's not very surprising you missed.

          Originally posted by ScoutBZ
          tbh whats the point of hit scan or istant weapons if they dont maintain that illiusion on the client side.
          They're effective independant of distance.

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            #35
            Ah cool, thankyou for the info

            " but the server doesn't compensate for the fact that what you see is delayed by X ms and that there is also an Y delay between firing and the shot arriving on the server"

            thats pretty much where half life does it differently, half life since 1.1.0.0 back traces in memory for all positions of all people and shots to see if the player really was where the he was when the client sent his shot.

            only downfall other than the "ton of botters" is the wicked wall kills, where you run around the corner and hide but the server doesnt know that for a few ms and the other client shooting you doesnt know what the server doesnt know, for a few ms ontop of that. so the client still shooting you before you went around the corner is scoring hits on you while your blantly out of his view on your end. Kind of like a less extreme "lol im 5 miles away and dieing" you get in planetside. D:


            SO one more question, seeing as im missing that manta that zipped thru my crosshairs and i had a seemly 100% accuracy on the shot.. how should i alter the timing on my shots for ut2k4? lead as per my ping?

            Am i correct in guessing you can pull off long range snipes on mantas while there pancaking after enough practice with the ut netcode?

            Heh one more question, cant you bot or cheat and stuff on NON ZP servers anyways?

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              #36
              Originally posted by ScoutBZ
              only downfall ... is the wicked wall kills, where you run around the corner and hide but the server doesnt know that for a few ms and the other client shooting you doesnt know what the server doesnt know, for a few ms ontop of that. so the client still shooting you before you went around the corner is scoring hits on you while your blantly out of his view on your end. Kind of like a less extreme "lol im 5 miles away and dieing" you get in planetside. D:
              The problem goes a little deeper in UT2k4 because there are only very few autofiring weapons and movement is very responsive. As a result, it becomes very worthwhile to time your moves so that you change direction right before your enemy pulls off a shot. This is a LOT harder if there is any zeroping code in play, because you have to keep your opponent's ping in mind, because even though his shots are processed as if they were in your past, you only see them when they reach you via the server. So if your enemy shot you once, you have to keep in mind that you have to dodge the next shot earlier than you would do normally because the last shot was also processed as if it was earlier than you saw it.
              This additional movement lag is even more apparent (and easier to understand) when the zeroping code is applied to projectiles like UTComp does. How this is done is that when someone with a high ping fires a rocket, the rocket is spawned at a distance from his gun as if it was already flying for the ping time of the person that shot it. As a result, you simply have less time to succesfully dodge the rocket. (note that your high-ping opponent has the same disadvantage because when he dodges it takes a while for the server to notice he did, so he also has less time to dodge because he has to dodge earlier)

              Originally posted by ScoutBZ
              how should i alter the timing on my shots for ut2k4? lead as per my ping?

              Am i correct in guessing you can pull off long range snipes on mantas while there pancaking after enough practice with the ut netcode?
              Correct on both. You still have a disadvantage if the Manta is changing direction rapidly however.

              Originally posted by ScoutBZ
              Heh one more question, cant you bot or cheat and stuff on NON ZP servers anyways?
              Yes, in fact so long as the mutator works by tracking back in-time serverside, it doesn't influence cheating at all.
              The only effect it has is that because shots appear to be no longer affected by lag, it's possible to use a bot with a higher ping. Not all that interesting.

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