Announcement

**Piglet** · 06-29-2011, 02:28 PM

I want to clarify that it's the cracked servers that I'm saying should be taken down.

**2th** · 07-04-2011, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by Piglet View Post

I want to clarify that it's the cracked servers that I'm saying should be taken down.

my god that is a name i havent seen in ages... I miss the old UT2004 servers like Cains Lair and such.

**Piglet** · 10-13-2011, 11:37 AM

No progress. The "most popular" cracked server is now configured to allow the admins there to initiate URL bombs which open hundreds of copies of gay porn/******/lemon party site/install viruses to players who join - and it's still visible on the master server despite reporting it here and to Epic via Flak.

The Epic team are very busy.

**Làámßø** · 10-13-2011, 02:51 PM

SOLUTION = DON'T PLAY ON DEMO SERVER's if you have the FULL COPY!!!

...also, Demo server still bring in NEW players to the game.....I just added a new member to the [HøP] family/team from ut2003 Demo....I got him over to ut2004 now so .... Demo = Good in my books!

**Sly.** · 10-13-2011, 03:30 PM

No, they must be gone from the master server list, for full versions I mean!

They are a way too big danger for those who actually purchased the game!

**arbee** · 10-13-2011, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by Làámßø View Post

SOLUTION = DON'T PLAY ON DEMO SERVER's if you have the FULL COPY!!!

How would the average player know?

Originally posted by Làámßø View Post

...also, Demo server still bring in NEW players to the game.....

Too bad these "new players" end up being short term because they get hijacked/infected.

Thanks for helping to ruin everything.

**Làámßø** · 10-13-2011, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by arbee View Post

How would the average player know?

Demo is version 3334... and most say DEMO in the server name .....Full is verison 3369...they would know this because they had to patch up!

Too bad these "new players" end up being short term because they get hijacked/infected.

NOT! .... my new friend will be with us a long time! ..... make sure your anti virus program is up to date and running at all times!

Thanks for helping to ruin everything.

...and how am I ruining everything?????

**Sly.** · 10-14-2011, 12:09 AM

my new friend will be with us a long time!

One of let's say 50 who actually has a friend who plays UT2004 and stays after playing the demo.
However, your friend did not need to play the demo if you owned the game. You could have just invited him and shown him the game first hand and convince him to buy it, just as I did with a friend of mine. He never played the demo and didn't need it. And honestly, does a demo have to have online access? Is this really necessary? :/

Demo is version 3334...

I'm totally honest now, I didn't know it and I'm sure many players don't know about that either. And most servers have DEMO in it but that doesn't mean all have. But there are also exceptions like the [MIA]Guns and Tonic server which is even dangerous for others!
Imagine the average UT2004 player who doesn't know that demo servers can be dangerous because this kind of players doesn't check this forum or doesn't know what version number demo servers have. This player joins a dangerous demo server without even knowing it and catches viruses, trojans, sites open up, whatever. There are many things that can happen when you join these cracked servers.

Apart from that they "steal" traffic from the regular UT2004 servers which will be soon ghost towns if the playercount continues to fall at this rate.
I don't see any advantages in demo servers. There can be no anti cheat, they can be cracked and misused, they steal traffic + the huge amount of "Rankin/FaceClassic/Torlan only" servers is boring.

**Làámßø** · 10-14-2011, 02:45 PM

Ok, I just fired up the game and checked out this server...yeah, wow....they've mutated the heck out of that server!!

....another thing I've noticed is that this server is no where near my part of the world so this is the reason why I've never had an issue with Demo servers!

I'm not going to waste my time here (on this thread) any more so..... good luck .... I guess!?

**ArtofManta** · 12-31-2011, 09:05 AM

Block all demo servers, yes

**TonyTP** · 01-10-2012, 11:03 AM

*sigh*... this conversation still going on :S

1) Be realistic: No code will be changed
Epic has barely been able to keep the masterservers up & running the last 6 months, so expecting them to do code changes on clients or masterservers is not very realistic.

2) Be realistic: It's hard to populate ANY server today
Most of you guys complaining about demo servers or servers allowing piratecopies of ut2004 are server admins yourself.. most likely wanting people to play YOUR server instead of other servers. Here's the thing: With the amount of players today you will have a hard time populating ANY server (legit, demo or "piracyfriendly"). The players will more or less stick to the servers that has been around & been active for a long time no matter what. Maybe we should focus on how to keep this little scene of people alive, instead of making changes that would cut off a certain % of the few players we have left?

3) What's this going to solve, in 2012 ?
Barely any players left, yet you guys are asking Epic to do a "final stunt" that's gonna kill the game completely. I don't support piracy, and I love the game.. but I would much rather play against people using a piratecopy/demo client than play against no one. Killing demo servers & servers supporting piratecopied versions of the game is gonna lower the overall activitylevel A LOT. Besides the players using such clients even people with legit copies of the game are gonna quit playing due to finding even less players on publics than earlier.

4) Piracy/demo only reason servers are played?
You guys seem to think that servers being demo and/or allowing piratecopied games is the only reason they are played. Well, obviously it's not. The ones hosting such servers are just admins adjusting to todays reality (lack of players) making their server(s) available to as many as possible. But you also have servers like Legend 20-slot iCTF, which is among the most played iCTF servers around. It's 100 % legit, and still has activity cause it's well configured, has a central european location pingwise - and most importantly, they've been around for years. Do you think a piracyfriendly server with **** config is played? There are a bunch of them... and they are all empty. Even the majority of demo servers (which are more or less the same, with same maps) are empty!

5) Demo servers are dangerous ? GIVE ME A BREAK!
You guys have NO clue what you are talking about... like... AT ALL (Sly, arbee etc). Demo servers are actually more secure to individuals, their computers and privacy: On a full version server (of any kind) anyone can create mutators that in theory are trojans. A good example is the NHK "anti-cheat" mutator, which turned out to be the definition of a trojan: Once you connected to any regular ut2004 server running the mutator your entire harddrive was scanned and content was reported back to the server admins. Neat, huh? This mutator is/was running on several "legit"/regular/ordinary/whatever ut2004 servers. Now here's the deal: Default ut2004 demo servers are blocked to run any kind of mutators. That alone actually kinda makes them safer. And even if a ut2004 demo server is tweaked to run mutators ALL DEMO CLIENTS ARE BLOCKED TO DOWNLOAD ANY CONTENT. Kinda pointless to run a demo server that NO demo clients can play on ? A securitythreat to ut2004 players, like expressed by several of you guys, REQUIRES PLAYERS TO DOWNLOAD FILES. So arguing that security (quote Sly: "viruses, trojans, sites open up") is an issue on demo servers is complete BS. YES, there are more cheaters on demo servers... but that has nothing to do with SECURITY. It was also mentioned something like "the most popular cracked servers can initiate URL bombs". I'm not familiar with such incidents, but again.. even stating that the piracyfriendly/cracked servers are less secure is complete BS. For something like people sniffing in your private files (hence NHK mutator) to occur, or serveradmins URL bombing a player etc, the admins would have to create a mutator that the player is required to download. This is possible on ALL full version servers of any kind, no matter what. This is not possible on a demo server.

6) Demo servers "steal" players from regular ut2004 servers
Riiiight. You know, the majority of players on popular ut2004 demo servers are people with full version legit clients of the game. They obviously have the option to play other full version servers, but PREFER to stick to FaceClassic/Rankin only demo community. Why some of you guys think you can FORCE people to play the maps, mutators & config YOU want them to play is beyond my understanding.

If this was in 2005 I would have fully supported you guys. But Epic, and Epic alone, decided to make the demo version free, playable online, and to contain some fairly neat maps. Epic created the "demo scene" you see today, which certain full version players even prefer. 2011/2012 is NOT the time to start demanding changes that are both unrealistic and overall negative to the game and UT community.

The demo version still attracts a certain amout of people. Personally I have recruited several friends to buy the game the last year, after having them download a free demo client and try the game out with me on a demo server. This is a good thing, so why remove the possibility of new players discovering the game this way ? And why the **** would you guys come up with such a dumb idea in 2011/2012 ??!?

Bottom line, WE NEED ALL THE PLAYERS WE CAN KEEP OR GET. Some of you guys seem to think that if only demo servers & piracyfriendly servers are removed you guys can start rigging your own servers & have them filled up with players. Happy times... or not? It doesn't work like that. Say Epic actually did what you are asking the result would be:
1) A certain % of the few players we have (demo/piratecopies) would be cut off, hence overall activity on the game is down
2) A certain % of the few players we have (legit players) would quit playing as well due to the overall lack of activity
3) No new players will be recruited through testing the free demo online, which was Epics intention all along
4) The few active servers around today would just change to regular cdkey, and people would continue to play _these servers_... cause that's where they will expect to find players, as always
5) The situation would be exactly the same, or worse, for people wanting to start a new server. Overall there will be less people interested in the game/ut2004 community, and the few people who are left will still be playing the "oldschool" servers they've played the last years.
6) THE GAME WILL DIE OUT COMPLETELY EVEN QUICKER

The only argument I keep seeing in this thread, expressed in various ways, is that certain admins think it's "unfair" people aren't playing on their regular ut2004 servers. Buhu, people aren't playing on my server, so let's whine. Tough luck, seriously. How about you try the following: Change to demo cdkey yourself, and see if your server is populated right away.. When you see it's NOT then maybe you can start shifting focus to how we can keep ut2004 alive a bit longer, instead of coming up with dumb ideas you think is gonna make your own server(s) badass.. but instead end up ruining what's left of this small community. Or maybe it's more contructive to whine about Epic not being able to keep the masterserver running at all, than asking them to alter it 8 years after the release of the game ?

**Sly.** · 01-10-2012, 02:46 PM

Rude sounding post is rude.
Capslock never makes your posts look convincing/serious or nice/friendly but sounds more like you're overreacting. There is a saying on the internet: CAPSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL (rule 39) - EVEN WITH CRUISE CONTROL YOU HAVE TO STEER (rule 40).
Even if you disagree or think you can prove otherwise
sound respectful to other members!

Just reminding you of the forum rules.
We are all mature enough to be able to have a polite conversation, aren't we?

Welcome to the forums though.
_____________
Now back to topic.

5) Demo servers are dangerous ? GIVE ME A BREAK!
You guys have NO clue what you are talking about... like... AT ALL (Sly, arbee etc). Demo servers are actually more secure to individuals, their computers and privacy: On a full version server (of any kind) anyone can create mutators that in theory are trojans. A good example is the NHK "anti-cheat" mutator, which turned out to be the definition of a trojan: Once you connected to any regular ut2004 server running the mutator your entire harddrive was scanned and content was reported back to the server admins. Neat, huh? This mutator is/was running on several "legit"/regular/ordinary/whatever ut2004 servers. Now here's the deal: Default ut2004 demo servers are blocked to run any kind of mutators. That alone actually kinda makes them safer. And even if a ut2004 demo server is tweaked to run mutators ALL DEMO CLIENTS ARE BLOCKED TO DOWNLOAD ANY CONTENT. Kinda pointless to run a demo server that NO demo clients can play on ? A securitythreat to ut2004 players, like expressed by several of you guys, REQUIRES PLAYERS TO DOWNLOAD FILES. So arguing that security (quote Sly: "viruses, trojans, sites open up") is an issue on demo servers is complete BS. YES, there are more cheaters on demo servers... but that has nothing to do with SECURITY. It was also mentioned something like "the most popular cracked servers can initiate URL bombs". I'm not familiar with such incidents, but again.. even stating that the piracyfriendly/cracked servers are less secure is complete BS. For something like people sniffing in your private files (hence NHK mutator) to occur, or serveradmins URL bombing a player etc, the admins would have to create a mutator that the player is required to download. This is possible on ALL full version servers of any kind, no matter what. This is not possible on a demo server.

I know about NHK myself too well...
and you didn't think about serverside stuff on cracked servers.
If you would have taken a look at certain cracked demoservers you would have seen that this is the case. How else do you explain that there is a demo server running a bunch of mutators and demo players can play it nonetheless?
_____________

If this was in 2005 I would have fully supported you guys. But Epic, and Epic alone, decided to make the demo version free, playable online, and to contain some fairly neat maps. Epic created the "demo scene" you see today, which certain full version players even prefer. 2011/2012 is NOT the time to start demanding changes that are both unrealistic and overall negative to the game and UT community.

VERY sure Epic Games didn't mean them to be cracked to enable custom content and make them support pirated version of the game/hand out gratis versions of the game. If they did, they would have made UT2004 free.
_____________

They obviously have the option to play other full version servers, but PREFER to stick to FaceClassic/Rankin only demo community.

You can play these maps on full version servers as well. If they really wanted to and demo servers were blocked, they would vote for these maps.
_____________

Demo servers "steal" players from regular ut2004 servers

If these demo players would really like the game, they would buy the full version and play it. It's like 5$/5€ these days. Definitely not much. And for this price you get a huge amount of content and can even make maps and mod yourself or install custom content.
_____________

4) The few active servers around today would just change to regular cdkey, and people would continue to play _these servers_... cause that's where they will expect to find players, as always

If this was the case...

2) A certain % of the few players we have (legit players) would quit playing as well due to the overall lack of activity

...then this wouldn't be the case.
_____________

3) No new players will be recruited through testing the free demo online, which was Epics intention all along

There is still the Instant Action. If they want to see if they like the game, playing offline is everything they need to make a decision.

6) THE GAME WILL DIE OUT COMPLETELY EVEN QUICKER

It can't be proven, it can't be disproven. Let's agree on this: Neither sides have solid arguments whether it will kill UT or keep it alive longer/improve the gaming experience.
_____________

The only argument I keep seeing in this thread, expressed in various ways, is that certain admins think it's "unfair" people aren't playing on their regular ut2004 servers. Buhu, people aren't playing on my server, so let's whine. Tough luck, seriously. How about you try the following: Change to demo cdkey yourself, and see if your server is populated right away.. When you see it's NOT then maybe you can start shifting focus to how we can keep ut2004 alive a bit longer, instead of coming up with dumb ideas you think is gonna make your own server(s) badass.. but instead end up ruining what's left of this small community. Or maybe it's more contructive to whine about Epic not being able to keep the masterserver running at all, than asking them to alter it 8 years after the release of the game ?

You're trolling pretty much in this part. Would you be surprised if I would say that most are actually just players playing the game?

And what would be so wrong about separating the demo community from the full version community? Allow demo players to play on their demo servers and have an online experience, so that they eventually buy the game and make the full version players play on full version servers.
And if it's too risky for the playerbase: How about serverside messages for demo servers which would appear in the chat saying "Buy the full version, you're missing much awesome content!" or stuff like that. Pretty sure it's possible to do this at least.

Other than that I agree with what Piglet said in this thread.

[...]to give some cash to Epic as a thank you to Epic for the effort spent in making the game.

I don't see anything wrong in giving Epic 5$/€ once in your entire life to own the full version with much more content than the demo. If one enjoy the game, one should actually own the actual game.

**Piglet** · 01-10-2012, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by TonyTP View Post

It was also mentioned something like "the most popular cracked servers can initiate URL bombs". ........ This is not possible on a demo server.

Not true. While it's true that un-hacked demo clients cannot be sent mutators, you don't need client-side mutators to change the way the game works. Url bombs, and other bad things are possible, and have been done. I am assured by the owner of the particular demo server I was talking in relation to URL bombs that this code has been removed from it.

**Baryonyx** · 01-10-2012, 03:51 PM

Calm down both of you yes?

First things first:
@Sly.: CAPSLOCK is sometimes used instead of italics or bold to express stress on a certain word, because the writer was too lazy to add the code tags. Does not necessarily mean offense.
@TonyTP: Fact is, using capslock is concidered shouting, which is considered rude/offensive by some users. Take your time and use italics or fat print next time to distinguish between shouting and just plain stress of words.

Originally posted by Sly.

I know about NHK myself too well...
and you didn't think about serverside stuff on cracked servers.
If you would have taken a look at certain cracked demoservers you would have seen that this is the case. How else do you explain that there is a demo server running a bunch of mutators and demo players can play it nonetheless?

I have to agree with Sly. here. You, TonyTP say yourself that "[you are] not familiar with such incidents", so perhaps they have not hit you yet, which probably just means you were lucky.

Adressing the rest of the dispute:
Can we agree the following?
-Something needs to be done.
The game is obvioulsy not dead yet, and leaving it at this state is not acceptable. The many cracked servers have to be fought against, no matter how old the game is. I think I used this argument before but I use it again: Something being old does not justify it become a playground for criminals right? That would mean stating it is legit that old people are robbed. They are old and soon gonna die, so who gives a f[beep!]k? It might be abstract but in the end it's comparable.
-Leave the demoservers open but add warning messages.
I agree with you, TonyTP, that the demo still attracts people, including me, who got addicted to it with faceclassic. As it being an online game, it should have the opportunity to get an online experience to some extent. But I like the idea of adding warning messages to counter what arbee said before, making the average player know about the risks that do exist.
And to not make them annoying, the window could have a checkbox to not show this message again.
Thereby the message could also contain the reminder to try some of the servers that are not "Standard", i.e. unchecking the checkbox for that which might add more players to these great but neglected servers that exist out there, and which are maybe not just neglected because players do not want to play on them but because they are simply not aware of them, to adress your insult at admins trying to force players on their servers.

Finally, I agree on this:

Originally posted by Sly.

I don't see anything wrong in giving Epic 5$/€ once in your entire life to own the full version with much more content than the demo. If one enjoy the game, one should actually own the actual game.

Of course no one can be forced to buy it, but UT2004 is really worth the little money it costs now, with the almost endless custom content that exists out there, one can play days without being able to claim that they tried everything and played this game in all possible manners. And even if there is nobody online anymore, it is still fun with bots. And if you get to persuade some friends to play it with you it is probably even funnier than having to play with countless arrogant jerks and cheaters isn't it?

**TonyTP** · 01-10-2012, 06:17 PM