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    Do bots cheat?

    'Cos if they do, well. I hope they take it out in UT3. I want someone to tell me that either the bots cheat, or I'm just a useless player. Either way: .

    Also, does auto adjust skill really work, and if so, how?

    #2
    Bots isn't "cheat" They do what they are programed to do. However, you can't use invisible, they "see" you anyway. How had it been if they take out bots? Can't play exemple instant action with your self.

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      #3
      If you consider their incredible link gun primary ability (it's so annoying) they can't cheap except for that invisible problem....I belive I have seen them spawn before and have a flak--no proof but it has happened to me a couple times....

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        #4
        Bots can dodge multiple times without break and have a ***** of a link aim.

        They do not do additional damage with weapons.
        They do not have more health.
        Even at godlike have poor pickup timing.

        Godlike bots can still be easily beaten, their aim is not as good as a human player can be with shock and lg. The added dodging while not humanly possible does not give them a huge advantage, its also only noticeable on the last 2 hardest dificulty settings.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Teg View Post
          I want someone to tell me that either the bots cheat, or I'm just a useless player.
          I really don't think you want my opinion from these two choices. :\

          sueco's right: bots do what they're programmed to doing. They can't truly be compared to humans, because they are made to mimic human behaviour. Well...that part of the human behaviour that isn't too complex to write in programmer's code, that is.
          Yes, they have a few points that are hard/near impossible to achieve as a human, but if you practice enough, you start seeing that there are flaws in their behaviour as well that makes them easier to get.

          Keep on practicing. They can be beaten.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by sueco View Post
            How had it been if they take out bots?
            I didn't mean take out bots, I meant take out their ability to cheat.

            Originally posted by RoadKillGrill View Post
            They do not do additional damage with weapons.
            I wasn't sure. Look at DestoyableObjective_SM, GameObjective, BotDamageScaling.

            Originally posted by Taleweaver View Post
            Keep on practising. They can be beaten.
            I've had UT for years, literally. Surly that is practice enough?

            Oh, and to reiterate my side-question: does the auto adjust skill thing work, and if so, how?

            Comment


              #7
              On UT I played with the auto adjust, it would eventually wind up at godlike. No, I'm not that good, but anyway... still beat them.
              The devs have posted many times that they don't cheat. Sometimes the fact that the animations and such are not synced up makes it look like they are shooting out of their ^$$ though. There was one post somewhere that one of the checks was done in a way that could be interpreted as cheating, but was just the way it was coded, not intentionally to cheat.

              I find their power-up timing very good on well pathed maps. That seems to be the big thing, if the maps have been pathed so the bots can really kick your butt. Some maps the bots are just targets

              Comment


                #8
                Technically, I wouldn't say they "cheat", but due to bad programming/ programmer oversight or just the nature of the thing, bots have some annoying quirks that make then super effective up close, and close to useless at long range. Here's a list of quirks which I've found:

                -Close range flak accuracy, boom your dead .... unless you dodged at JUST the right time

                -Close range link accuracy, while not as explosive as flak, is much more consistent, he doesn't miss at all and your dead.

                -Instant projectile leading. In one frame, a bot can instantly and very accurately calculate exactly where it needs to fire it's shot. 1 sec, bot is minding it's own business, next sec, bot has done a 180 turn and planted a shock combo between the eyes of a dodgejumping player.

                -Instant dodging, bots dodge about 5 frames or so after seeing it's enemy fire a projectile, meaning by the time you've pressed fire, you've already missed. I mean, I've shot 3 rockets from 3 meters away, dead on, and the bot still manages to avoid 95% of the damage.

                -Instant weapon switching, yep, they can switch faster than any player, about half a second after that bot has picked up that flak cannon, he's switched to it and killed you with it.

                -Always target players, yep, bots have an extreme prejudice toward any player, and a group of bots fighting themselves will happily all turn to shoot at this one player who decided to appear. Hell, bots even track you through walls and terrain from 1km away

                -Bot AVRils still track you from behind terrain. I didn't think that was possible.

                Grrrr, I hate bots. That's why I prefer to play against Invasion monsters now, at least they all don't shoot at players from a large distance, when there are like 3/4 viable targets closer to them.

                Comment


                  #9
                  They duck lightning headshots.
                  They dodge with no limitation from inputs.
                  They see you when you are invisible.
                  They shoot split silos.

                  ...and I swear sometimes they spawn with armor, though I could be mistaken. My item awareness has never been worth mention.

                  I'd say yes, in a sense they cheat, because their programming isn't perfect IMO.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Close to useless at long range? I guess you've never played a bot in a game of ONS. They can easily peg you off in 1-2 shots from across the map.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Teg View Post
                      'Cos if they do, well. I hope they take it out in UT3. I want someone to tell me that either the bots cheat, or I'm just a useless player. Either way: .

                      Also, does auto adjust skill really work, and if so, how?
                      If you think their that bad normally, try downloading the excessive overkill 3.01 mutator made by Mr.Pants http://unrealtournament2004.filefron...kill_Zip;32938 if you want to and play Face classic on godlike and at some point during the match one of the bots will go to the top of their tower and start to snipe with the lightning gun killing any and just about everyone on the other team giving you no chance to even make it up your side of the hill.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        As others have said, there are a great many things that bots do that humans would either 1) never do or 2) be incapable of doing.

                        I'm very much looking forward to seeing how they've tweaked the bots this time 'round.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by 9ades View Post
                          -Close range flak accuracy, boom your dead .... unless you dodged at JUST the right time
                          Or you head shot them. Well, that's the only time I live.
                          -Close range link accuracy, while not as explosive as flak, is much more consistent, he doesn't miss at all and your dead.
                          Evil!!! That's when the link's full effect can be felt! And you can't dodge-jump away either.
                          -Instant projectile leading. In one frame, a bot can instantly and very accurately calculate exactly where it needs to fire it's shot.
                          Yep, but it makes them flawed at mid to long range. Especially with rockets.
                          -Instant dodging, bots dodge about 5 frames or so after seeing it's enemy fire a projectile, meaning by the time you've pressed fire, you've already missed. I mean, I've shot 3 rockets from 3 meters away, dead on, and the bot still manages to avoid 95% of the damage.
                          I've noticed that they like to do a "<o" or "o>" dodge, where "o" is the projectile and the ">" and "<" is the path they dodge..without any pause.
                          -Always target players, yep, bots have an extreme prejudice toward any player, and a group of bots fighting themselves will happily all turn to shoot at this one player who decided to appear.
                          They're very discriminating
                          Grrrr, I hate bots. to them.
                          Don't worry. Bots hate you too. ^^

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think it's the dodging that gets me. OK, godlike is meant to be so, but if the bots can dodge that fast, I want dodge on a single keybind so it is at least possible for a human to dodge that fast too.

                            Also, I wonder what the bots reaction time is? look at wiki's page on reac. times. It implies there that no-one has reached a reac. time of less than 0.15s.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by 9ades View Post
                              -Bot AVRils still track you from behind terrain. I didn't think that was possible.
                              It is, I've tested it
                              Torlan, Raptor, com tower, god mode. Hopped up, let some bots get a lock, ducked behind the tower. Their avrils smoked the tower in a direct line with where I was hiding. Even swerved to match small motions I made behind the tower

                              They can even track you thru the thickest of map fog, well beyond how far a human could see you with even the highest detail settings

                              Hell, I've even been headshotted when I was jumping over the bot. My reaction was "What the? Did the bolt fly up my ****, come out my mouth and arc back to my brain?"

                              As for multi-dodging, they start doing that at around the Adept skill level

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