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    #16
    Onslaught only: these things are just too good in indoor environments.

    No...not because they are hard to kill or even avoid them when spotted (that's all easy), but because they can be placed so it's almost impossible not to get hit by them. Just behind narrow corners, on the top floor of a lift, next to a teleporter, and so on.

    EDIT: @Xyx: erm...flagrun time and powerup placement are a part of level design (just as the inclusion of spider mines, btw), and not an aspect that can be "revised" in the engine.

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      #17
      spidermines are terrible in every way

      except on AS-Junkyard, that's the only map they work on

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        #18
        I thought I read that the 2007 mines you can stick them on walls and ceilings.... And they will hunt enemy mines as well.... Better yet, who wants cloaked mines?!

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          #19
          Originally posted by Evil Homer
          I thought I read that the 2007 mines you can stick them on walls and ceilings.... And they will hunt enemy mines as well.... Better yet, who wants cloaked mines?!
          You are evil.......

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            #20
            Originally posted by Magwa
            You are evil.......
            I try...

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              #21
              Originally posted by Xyx
              Whoa, you must have played the ultra-sekret private UT2007 demo!!oneone

              How else could you know?

              Seriously, I expect Epic to revise all movement based aspects, including Manta maneuverability, flagrun time, powerup placement and, yes, spidermine speed.
              I sent Willhaven some tastey gourmet bagels, and he let me have an incomplete demo, shh.

              I expect them to change it too. But will they change the spidermine speed slower so that jumping away from them will give you the same distance from them as a dodge-jump? Without getting far enough from them when shooting at them, their blast radius still damages you badly, if it doesn't kill you. We'll have to wait and see.

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                #22
                I'd like to see players be able to deploy half as many, yet still retain them when they die.

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                  #23
                  Spiders are fine - they are jsut another weapon. Some weapons require a degree of skill to use, some don't. It doesn't mean that the weapons that require less skill are any less valid than the ones that don't. The original argument isn't too far removed from ppl who continually moan in DM/TAM about roxx and flak because they often get killed with a weapon that requires less aim. If you know how to counter a wepaon then it stops being a problem.

                  They aren't exactly difficult to avoid - you can hear them coming from half way across the map. If the player who laid the mines is still around, kill em fast and lose the mines, otherwise just jump onto a step or a piece of higher ground and the mines will explode as they hit the change in terrain. Otherwise jsut throw a shockball in their direction - no more mines.

                  Besides, part of the fun in the game for me is loading up the odd manta and taking out a tank/pally/turret.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by KoperniK
                    They aren't exactly difficult to avoid - you can hear them coming from half way across the map.
                    Wrong.

                    When they're placed around corners, you can't hear them until they're coming at you and by that time it's too late.

                    The mine launcher is a terrible weapon that makes the game less fun. It's that simple.

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                      #25
                      I can spam a few rockets round that same corner. You won't hear them before they kill you - is that lame? What about a shock combo with a wide blast radius - is that lame too? Let's not mention the long strings of skymines from hellbenders, the pally combo and the tank blast damage. I know - let's take out everything that could cause an unintentional/indirect kill. Explain to me why any of the kill methods mentioned above are any less lame than the spidermines. You're going to get killed many, many times in ONS by many different methods - it's part of the game.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Hawke
                        When they're placed around corners, you can't hear them until they're coming at you and by that time it's too late.
                        That's just good defense. You shouldn't jump around corners without making sure it's safe on maps with mines.

                        If that kind of defense does not fit the gametype, then it's an issue of map design. Mappers don't have to include mines, and mappers don't have to make good mining spots. Spamming the base full of mines obviously slows gameplay to a crawl, but having just a few of them around keeps people on their toes and gives sub-l33t players the chance to do some damage too.

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                          #27
                          Roxx and Flak need prediction. Mines do not.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by KoperniK
                            Explain to me why any of the kill methods mentioned above are any less lame than the spidermines.
                            Because every single method listed above requires an active player predicting exactly where his opponent will be at a given time due to information he has recieved by either seeing or hearing his opponent.

                            A player can hit you with mines from anywhere on the map, without knowing where you were.

                            Originally posted by KoperniK
                            You're going to get killed many, many times in ONS by many different methods - it's part of the game.
                            I've never heard of you before, but I can tell you that condescending posts like these will only make you look like a fool. If you believe I'm an inexperienced UT2k4 player whining about something I don't know how to avoid then you're dead wrong

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                              #29
                              Ah c'mon don't take it personal - it's a game. We all have opinions and I disagree with you - keep it on topic

                              The mines are a part of the game at the moment, lame or not. To not use them because you consider them lame is not taking full advantage of every weapon at your disposal and that seems rather foolhardy. Yeah a mine kill is a cheap kill ..but a kill nonetheless.

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                                #30
                                Many ppl say that it doesn't need skill to get kills with spiders and that could be true in some casses, but it does need skill to avoid the spiders from jumping on to you and when you know how they act then it's easy to avoid them from hitting you. Even when you notice a spider on the last moment, you still have time to get away from it safely (the spiders never react directly). Normally you dodge away from the spiders, but at those moments you first take a step to a certain direction and then dodge away from it. But it's true that they can be placed on spawn or teleportlocations and I think that is one of the main disadvantages of spidermines and they need to find a sollution for thsi.

                                Originally posted by fuegerstef
                                Roxx and Flak need prediction. Mines do not.
                                You can also throw spidermines at some1, wich does need prediction and usually results in an instant death. This is also very effective against manta guys who are capable of outflying every avrilmissle, you only need to throw 1 spider at it's front and ...by by manta.

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