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Why do many players stick to TDM

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    #16
    Originally posted by ShredPrince
    I am a DM guy myself...and I think DM is "where the skill is"

    It's one thing to have 6 dudes to pull ur **** outtta a crack...but it's a whole other thing to do it yourself.

    I respect all player thoug of all gametypes.....

    If you rule your field it deserves respect.

    I personally own up about 90% of the time in DM.....I am fair at CTF and ONS, and BR.....Mad at DOM.......Kinda dont like TDM actually....I feel like Im getting help, and or being held back from true pwnage...
    Saying you own 90% of the time in FFA DM is kind of a joke... anyone half decent at the game can do that well or better, because virtually no competitive or even semi-competitive players play ffa, except hectic (), so basically you are just ruining the fun of people that take the game less seriously and have had less practice than you. It took me a while to realize that, so now if I'm doing too well in a server I'll leave, provided that I can find another server before I leave, coz I'd rather ruin other people's fun than my own by not playing at all.

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      #17
      Originally posted by NoTicket
      Team Deathmatch and 1on1 DM are always going to be the foundation of the best players out there, regardless of the gametype. All of the best ONS, AS, and CTF players out there competing are also incredibly strong TDMers and Duelers.

      Mostly_Harmless plays for one of the best (formerly competitive) ONS teams (Pure Gaming) and he, and all of his teammates, except for 2 or 3, can mop the floor with 90% of gamers out there in TDM or 1v1. I also know that this is the case for Griffindor House in CTF and EiF in AS.

      Anyway, EggSuckingLeech is so right that it hurts, DM skills (read: [at least] Aim, Combat and Map movement and [preferrably] map control) are the foundation of great players from TDM to AS to ONS to CTF. The only gametypes in which DM and TDM don't bear much relevance are the IG gametypes.
      Thanks Prime that's quite a compliment. But what you speak of is the truth. The majority of the best ONSer's can handle themselves in a vehicle on also on the ground. A good ground soldier can take on 2-3 guys on foot at a node and win. With 1v1 the consequences of poor decision making quite often leads to a loss. 1v1 really engulfs the player into making smart tactical choices. Using this as a foundation creates an extraordinary player in any other game type. But don't be discouraged if you aren't the greatest TDMer or 1v1er. It's only there as base and to help you improve in other game types. Being god in these game types does not make god in other game types. There have been many "pro" teams who thought they could take on all the teams in ONS only to fail at the lower end of the ladder. You can be a great ONS player w/o the help from tdm/1v1, but you will always be better w/ them.

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        #18
        I wonder...
        From my experience, the best way to practice something is by doing it, not by doing something else.
        I do know it's not a good idea to practice the same thing over and over tho', because you'll stop noticing your mistakes.

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          #19
          TAM is the shizzle!

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            #20
            Originally posted by Boksha
            I wonder...
            From my experience, the best way to practice something is by doing it, not by doing something else.
            I do know it's not a good idea to practice the same thing over and over tho', because you'll stop noticing your mistakes.
            Not sure if I'm really responding to your point, Boksha, but another reason DM work is so valuable in ONS is that it's often easier to isolate and refine important skills outside of your main gametype. I'm thinking particularly of tactics like situational awareness (your lines of fire, your vulnerabilities) and fundamental teamplay like flanking/crossfires, &c. - both of which can be learned to some degree in ONS, but I think are much more efficiently isolated and improved in DM/TDM.

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              #21
              The reason why TDM isn't so popular, pub wise, is because it ulitmately is meant to be played with weapon stay off. Which leads to alot of spawn killing because you have to wait 27 seconds for weapons to reappear. Ironically, TDM'ers usually say they don't like FFa because of Spam, etc. But its OK to stalk ppl with no weapon

              TDM is played totally different than DM. Its not just DM with teams.

              Most TDM'ers are pretty dam good. Alot better than most DM'ers by a long shot. I know a large number of them that can consistently go 75-0 in goliath DM. Its just not a challenge to ppl that play with weapon stay off.

              red teams kills=blue teams deaths. So in TDM its more about not getting killed than killing.

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                #22
                To suibhne: you have a point there, but in that case I think TAM might actually be better practice for ONS players, because in ONS you don't have weapon pickups or powerup timing to worry about either. (not to mention both gametypes are horribly hitscan whory while in regular DM and TDM without FF it's often rewarding to spam quite badly )

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Boksha
                  because in ONS you don't have weapon pickups or powerup timing to worry about either.
                  When uMA played we timed powerups on Ons maps and the other teams vehicle spawns. I know Pure also times powerups/spawns in Ons.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Boksha
                    To suibhne: you have a point there, but in that case I think TAM might actually be better practice for ONS players, because in ONS you don't have weapon pickups or powerup timing to worry about either. (not to mention both gametypes are horribly hitscan whory while in regular DM and TDM without FF it's often rewarding to spam quite badly )
                    In pure we always time the vehicles. This allowed us to plan our next move knowing when and where the enemy would be. In maps like Severance we would time two DD's at one time (each base had 1 DD). This allowed us to set up so that we would attack there core when the DD spawned in there base, killing there core very fast. Maps like Crossfire and Acendency have DD too. So while we aren't timing weapons spawns, we have vehicle spawns, DD, 100a's.

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                      #25
                      That's pretty hardcore. I never played ONS at a high level, and it's been a long while since I've spectated anyone doing so. Anyway, I don't think it plays the same role it does in DM.

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                        #26
                        Well from my limited competitive ONS expierence I can say that the power ups definitly play a big role in the outcome of a match.

                        For example in Red Planet, there is a DD at the middle node. Which ever team gets the first DD pick up has a signifigant advantage in the ensueing race for the enemy primary. Whoever gets/controls the DD first will likey win the map. (unless the other team has some really tight comeback strat)

                        I think since there are more gameplay objects (nodes, vehicles.. etc) control of the TDM powerups is less important, but controling them can decide the outcome of a map.

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                          #27
                          Yes, timing is incredibly important in ONS. Raptor pilots time their own vehicles as well as enemy tanks, and vice versa; players or entire teams time powerups (not just DD but also Keg and 100a).

                          DM/TDM is about resource control, not just fragging, and I think that makes it superior to TAM as prep for basically any other gametype (even as prep for TAM ). My sense is that TAM doesn't encourage the same level of thoughtfulness re. map position, weapon choice, etc., and the round-based structure also means that, in a typical TAM match or scrim, you'll gain much less actual experience (and therefore much less potential learning) than you would in a TDM match or scrim of the same length.

                          Anyway, my intention isn't to restart the old TAM/TDM debate, just to clarify why I think TDM is really valuable for ONS.

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                            #28
                            Ultimately what it boils down to is that 1v1 and TDM cover the extreme basic foundation for any of the other gametypes.

                            They're both good for improving movement, aim, controlling portions of a map or of all of the map, timing powerups, etc, etc. I was mediocre at best at AS before I started playing those 2 gametypes as often as I could. Now I can usually do a much better job of wreaking havoc against the other team sometimes tying up as many as 3 ppl on the other team with strafing fire while the rest of my team makes a break for the next obj.

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                              #29
                              I'm definately a vctf player, it's the gametype I play almost exclusively, along with TAM & a spot of FFA DM (rarely though).
                              After playing nowt but vctf for a week or two, it's amazing how badly I do when I play tam or DM, it's like my *normal* DMming skills (well, what little I could argue to have) have atrophied.

                              Conversely, I tend to play vctf much better if I've been playing DM for an hour or two first (but I'm so impatient I hardly ever do that ).

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by R0An
                                No offense.:up: I'm just curious.
                                As for Quake3, I play Quake3 too but don't hear that kind of remarks.
                                Don't want to cause flame or something. I'm just curious.
                                if one thing is about flamewars about where the skill is its q3, everything else than osp and cpma is considered a joke, looking at the fragmovies you wont see anything else than that in it either. No offense, but TDM is a gametype that excists for over years and years, and where personal skills are equal to teamskills. Unlike ctf where everything is a teameffort, and it doesnt matter how skilled the player is if he's extraordinary at teamplay he will do good. This is why in every game they are the main-skilled mods, because both evolved over years of gaming, and have a huge headstart over invasion or smt. I'd write more but i have to leave now, ill drop a line later

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