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DM-1on1-Squader-Remix

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  • replied
    Thanks!

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  • replied
    Nice job. This version is much more enjoyable.

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  • replied
    great remix :up:

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Boksha
    Because it ticks me off and has done so for a long time. I voiced it here because I thought it was relevant to this thread. So apparently it isn't. Sue me.

    I've got my lawyer on the phone...

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Cataclysm
    Thanks to Worlock from prounreal for putting this on his servers.
    Please don't associate me with that 95% useless flamepit. I just happened to see the post there first It's prob the first post I've made there in months.

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  • replied
    Just to point out here that if you've got a lot of meshes in a room or hallway providing deco, you can always kill the collision on smaller items, or on pieces that act as cover, just add in a simplified blocking volume, with kinda angled edges so you can ease around it rather than getting stuck.

    Personally I'm not too fussed, really nice BSP work usually impresses me more than a bunch-o-meshes (looks at UT99 & Operation Na-Pali maps), and I'm not commenting on this map in particular (in fact I've not finished the D/L yet) but all these black or white opinions about how one aspect of the game can't exist without the demise of another is just plain wrong.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Cataclysm
    I do not think maps need to be ugly and have good gameplay.
    If my comment about it being sad visuals often get scrapped because the mapper thinks gameplay and visuals can't or don't have to be combined doesn't apply to you, you don't have to take it personal.
    And I didn't misquote you, you just took my "suck" a little too heavy. My point was that there's no reason visual detail and richness and gameplay can't go together, so if I play the original map I'd be missing out on improved gameplay.

    Originally posted by NoTicket
    If you have nothing against this particular map why even bother voicing your dislike for the "ugly>pretty=competitive" movement in here.
    Because it ticks me off and has done so for a long time. I voiced it here because I thought it was relevant to this thread. So apparently it isn't. Sue me.

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  • replied
    Bok:
    Way to make no point what-so-ever. For reference, as far back as UT99 and UT2003 people removed needless meshes to improve general performance and flow in LE releases. For a classic example check our CTF-Crome versus CTF-Crome-LE. Anyone that plays in a competitive setting knows visuals are of zero regards.

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  • replied
    If you have nothing against this particular map why even bother voicing your dislike for the "ugly>pretty=competitive" movement in here. The map still has plenty of eyecandy, just look out the windows, and the various lightsources add some decent mood.

    As for "visuals not being obstructive". Everything is a visual as long as you can see it. So if there is a huge static mesh reducing a hallway to two human sized corridors, then it is a visual that has been removed. And yes, we all understand that maps can be made to look visually interesting and have good gameplay, read: DM-Corrugation, DM-1on1-Roughinery, DM-Rankin, DM-CBP2-Achilles, and many many more (including pretty much all AS and ONS maps and a hefty number of CTF maps).

    However, what Cataclysm did with the Squader remix, is reduce a visually bloated map to a more sparse map that is rich in playability. The map still looks fine, but no, it doesn't look as visually appealing as the original.

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  • replied
    You miss quote me. I never said the map sucked. I said that is was a great layout, but too cluttered for 1v1.

    And yes, I am an amateur, thanks for the encouragement. But I've had TONS of experience in competitive 1v1 and TDM. This map was Remixed to improve it for 1v1. Not to "wow" the players or to look pretty. It was made solely to improve gameplay for 1v1. I understand that good maps have great gameplay and look good, but considering the amount the competitive side of UT is dwindling, I wanted to get this map out and get it played before UT2k7.

    I do not think maps need to be ugly and have good gameplay. I am currently working on a totally custom map for 2v2 TDM, for part of my senior project. But you don't need to go around saying it's sad that I don't have visuals in it. Especially when I don't respect your position in the level of UT that I and the players I made it for, play at.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Cataclysm
    Well, if you want visuals, play the original map. I did this for competitive 1v1, and the "visuals" got in the way. Nothing is more annoying than trying to run away from someone and getting stuck on every static mesh you pass.
    By their very nature, visuals don't get in the way. They're just visuals. You're confusing bad static mesh usage with visuals, but you can make a map look good without the player getting stuck on things. Now I realise that this is just an amateur remake of an existing map with the sole goal of improving gameplay for serious play, but I think the "good looks = bad gameplay" movement really needs to halt.
    As for your remark that I should play the original map... you remade it because the gameplay sucks, remember?

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Boksha
    I find it a little sad how, in the name of gameplay, maps tend to get stripped off all visuals. You can make a map play good without reducing all walls to BSP you know.
    Definitely. But this is a revision of an already existing map, one of whose biggest problems was slow movement and limited flow, and removing the staticmeshes was a significant part of the improvement.

    icosis will tell you that I whined at him for weeks about the reduced visuals, but I got used to it as the map got better and better to play. Now it honestly looks good to me. I'd like to think the textures could be snazzier and more varied if it were designed this way from the ground up, but imo this is a great success as a competitive remix of a stock map.

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  • replied
    Well, if you want visuals, play the original map. I did this for competitive 1v1, and the "visuals" got in the way. Nothing is more annoying than trying to run away from someone and getting stuck on every static mesh you pass.

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  • replied
    I find it a little sad how, in the name of gameplay, maps tend to get stripped off all visuals. You can make a map play good without reducing all walls to BSP you know.

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  • replied
    I know, I just thought people might miss it if it wasn't bumped back up. :P

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