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    ONS super weapon idea

    I came up with an idea for a ONS only super weapon. A Node Destroying mine. The idea is that a team could plant this mine on a node controlled by the other team and it would sit until the node became open for attack. Then it would detonate and take down the node. It'd be just as if someone camped the node with a redeemer except they wouldn't have to camp and it wouldn't kill everyone around it. That way either team could immediately start building it, but the team that did control it would have the advantage, because they were spawning there just a second before.

    If used correctly it would really help make comebacks easier because you could mine the second node and then as soon as your team built up the first node, the second would go down. Instantly shifting the battle off the primary node. It would likely leave some people from the opposing team there to start building it again but at least you don't have to worry about your primary becoming under attack immediately after you get it built.

    It would also be good if the opposing team could destroy your mine, but it should have like 500 health so that it takes some real work to do so.

    What do you guys think?

    #2
    1. This should go in user maps and mods> requests/idea sharing, not here.

    2. i don't think that'll work... it's too complicated and imo, it's cheap.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by WoW Punisher
      1. This should go in user maps and mods> requests/idea sharing, not here.

      2. i don't think that'll work... it's too complicated and imo, it's cheap.
      Lol, cheap? How?

      I think its worth someone with the know how making it as a mod. If it takes on, perhaps Epic could build it into UT07...

      Comment


        #4
        I like the idea! It would probably be a good addition after proper balancing. I'd like to give it a try sometime.

        The mine would have to be easily visible, reasonably sturdy and a bit of trouble to place, I think.

        Note that the mine could also be used to lock you in your base. Imagine one planted on your primary in Arctic Stronghold... But then again, the underlying reason for map lock is in the link setup, which can (and should, in this case) be changed, especially on a server that uses extra content.

        Comment


          #5
          Lame idea.

          (1) Comebacks arise naturally from good map design and link setup, don't try a half-baked solution just because some mappers are clueless.

          (2) Comebacks are done through teamwork, not some llama using a deemer or even easier, a remote mine of some sort.

          (3) Leaving 8 grenades on the node will take off a good chunk of it's hp.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by =XM=
            [B(3) Leaving 8 grenades on the node will take off a good chunk of it's hp. [/B]
            I do that all the time. I'll fly up to some central node, drop 8 mines in the middle where they can't be seen, try and stay alive until the enemy builds that node, and then detonate. It'll take down the node and anyone who might have been standing on it to heal it.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by =XM=
              (2) Comebacks are done through teamwork, not some llama using a deemer or even easier, a remote mine of some sort.
              Teamwork is beside the issue. The Redeemer works fine in team games, forming a secondary objective of its own just like a Goliath in ONS or the 100a in another gametype. You can time, capture and defend it and get a little reward for doing so. Using it takes skill, because you'll have to fight for it first. Its perceived impopularity mainly stems from players considering themselves too l33t for anything that does not require aim.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Xyx
                Teamwork is beside the issue. The Redeemer works fine in team games, forming a secondary objective of its own just like a Goliath in ONS or the 100a in another gametype. You can time, capture and defend it and get a little reward for doing so. Using it takes skill, because you'll have to fight for it first. Its perceived impopularity mainly stems from players considering themselves too l33t for anything that does not require aim.
                Yeah, yeah sure. That's why it is always turned off....

                Another reason (apart from the general reasons) it is off in ONS is that it takes no skill/effort/teamwork to do a kamikaze manta run + the simplified map control of ONS through nodes means the deemer will mostly always be in the hands of the winning team.

                But superweapons is a non-issue anyway. Maybe the UT community will never be serious/mature enough to go the CPMA way, but there are basic things on which we all agree because they are obvious: NoSuperWeapons is one of them.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I'm going to defend my idea a little here because it's clear that we don't all agree about super weapons in ONS.

                  The nice thing about this super weapon is that it doesn't kill players, just the node. It's also not garunteed because the other team can destroy it before it has a chance to detonate. I think it could add some much needed stratigy to the gameplay. Two additions:

                  1. It is only deployable on nodes that are shielded. (Can't be used to destroy a node that is already vunerable to attack)

                  2. If deployed it would tie up a few people from the other team because they'd want to destroy it. At least that gives the loosing team a player count advantage for a few seconds instead of the constant/hopeless pounding they usually get.

                  Unrelated point:
                  Did you call me a llama for using super weapons? I can't really picture a llama with a warhead, have you seen something I haven't?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I agree the Redeemer in Arctic or Urban is a comeback killer, but the ones in Torlan and Dawn are pretty much equally available to either team and can both make and break comebacks.

                    Originally posted by =XM=
                    But superweapons is a non-issue anyway.
                    Yeah, that's why Epic still ships maps with them in it after three releases. Keep an open mind and you might be surprised that there are other opinions than "mainstream TDM".

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Bamboozler
                      ...we don't all agree about super weapons in ONS
                      No, that is a point on which everyone agrees and is why you don't see ONS played with superweapons.
                      Originally posted by Bamboozler
                      The nice thing about this super weapon is that it doesn't kill players, just the node. It's also not garunteed because the other team can destroy it before it has a chance to detonate. I think it could add some much needed stratigy to the gameplay.
                      It makes no difference whether it kills people or not. The deemer can also be shot down, this is why not even a noob would use it other than up close. Similarly your mine is an easy, pointless way of destroying a node in one shot without requiring team effort or skill. The only difference is that your mine would never work since it would always be destroyed by people spawning at the node.
                      Originally posted by Bamboozler
                      1. It is only deployable on nodes that are shielded. (Can't be used to destroy a node that is already vunerable to attack)
                      Now, what a genius! What difference does it make? It can only destroy a node when it is vulnerable. So it only means you put it in in advance, do you see why this is even easier than having to drive to the node with a deemer? No, you prolly don't. :/
                      Originally posted by Bamboozler
                      2. If deployed it would tie up a few people from the other team because they'd want to destroy it. At least that gives the loosing team a player count advantage for a few seconds instead of the constant/hopeless pounding they usually get.
                      More half-baked idiotic solutions to mappers who don't plan their maps properly and/or poor link setups? The cumulative advantage in ONS is balanced by proper layout, good link setups and careful weapon/vehicle placements.
                      Originally posted by Bamboozler
                      Unrelated point:
                      Did you call me a llama for using super weapons? I can't really picture a llama with a warhead, have you seen something I haven't?

                      If llama's can wear suits, they sure can carry warheads around. **** those llamas!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Xyx
                        I agree the Redeemer in Arctic or Urban is a comeback killer, but the ones in Torlan and Dawn are pretty much equally available to either team and can both make and break comebacks.
                        You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. The deemer in dawn is placed assymetrically. If you control that side (take down the enemy tank node that is next to it) not only do you control an extra tank but you control the deemer right next to the bloody thing.

                        I will gladly laugh at any team on Torlan that is winning and allowed a raptor the chance to get to the tower AND comeback down to the node and deemer it down, or use it in the middle after the primary has potentially been rebuilt, knowing that the redeemer had popped. Then again I would also laugh at them for somehow playing with superweapons on.
                        Originally posted by Xyx
                        Yeah, that's why Epic still ships maps with them in it after three releases. Keep an open mind and you might be surprised that there are other opinions than "mainstream TDM".
                        Epic puts them in maps, they get disabled. And you might be surprised that I barely play TDM in UT2004. I play mostly ONS (and TAM nowadays).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by =XM=
                          No, that is a point on which everyone agrees
                          Uhm... did you not have a disagreement with two people just now? Or do our opinions not count because they're not the same as yours?

                          People like me and Bamboozler are merely representatives of a very large player group that plays the game for fun and relaxation. The reason you don't usually hear much from this group is because it doesn't try to shove its point of view down other peoples' throats all the time.

                          Originally posted by =XM=
                          your mine would never work since it would always be destroyed by people spawning at the node.
                          ...
                          do you see why this is even easier than having to drive to the node with a deemer?
                          How can it be easy if it never works? :bulb:

                          Originally posted by =XM=
                          The deemer in dawn is placed assymetrically. If you control that side (take down the enemy tank node that is next to it) not only do you control an extra tank but you control the deemer right next to the bloody thing.
                          That is just one point of view. One could argue that the other side has the advantage because they are closer to the Redeemer and have a tank to guard it.

                          Originally posted by =XM=
                          I will gladly laugh at any team on Torlan that is winning and allowed a raptor the chance to get to the tower AND comeback down to the node and deemer it down
                          Only in the default setup, but unless you like dragged out hoplelessness that setup does not really form a good basis for discussion.

                          Once you're locked to your base there's usually no coming back anyway, so having someone deemer your core at least gets things over with.

                          Originally posted by =XM=
                          Epic puts them in maps, they get disabled.
                          Ever consider why they persist in putting them in maps?

                          Originally posted by =XM=
                          you might be surprised that I barely play TDM in UT2004. I play mostly ONS (and TAM nowadays).
                          I do not presume to suggest you play TDM. I merely observed that you carry yourself with traditional TDM attitude.

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