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Buncha noob questions

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    Buncha noob questions

    Glad there's a forum like this so I don't have to post these questions elsewhere, but man I am getting fragged alot... haha Okay, granted I am out of touch, playing UT2003, but I need some help. First off, I am way too slow. Does it matter which skin I use and where are the stats for them? Some are obviously faster than others. Also, I have playing alot of servers where I can't jump more than about 4 times, but the other players are flying around way over my head -- how do they do this without cheating somehow? I have tried to figure it but can't. Also, I am terrible at dodging, so I get fragged. I mean I try to jump and then dodge or whatever, but I can't get away. You pros have fun with me, but how do you move that fast and dodge that good? There's got to be an explanation for part of this at least. Plus this is with a vartiety of players so I know it's not just that room.

    Any help will be appreciated!

    Does it matter which skin I use
    No, the skins are only for looks, not for gameplay

    Some are obviously faster than others
    nope, they are just faster than you are

    I have playing alot of servers where I can't jump more than about 4 times, but the other players are flying around way over my head
    thats a mutator "Quadjump", you are not alowed to double jump more than 4 times, they are probably doging in the air.

    Also, I am terrible at dodging, so I get fragged. I mean I try to jump and then dodge or whatever, but I can't get away.
    your just a bit slow, you'll get used to it and be able to do it yourself in time.

    You pros have fun with me, but how do you move that fast and dodge that good?
    skill and practice, and LOTS OF IT

    hope this is good.
    don't assume that there is cheating, and above all, DON'T POST HERE ABOUT IT.
    some people are actually that good


      Originally posted by CREMBELS
      skill and practice, and LOTS OF IT

      hope this is good.
      don't assume that there is cheating, and above all, DON'T POST HERE ABOUT IT.
      some people are actually that good
      That pretty much sums it up. I have been playing a while now and I remember the first online matches were just shock treatment for me. I have learned movement somewhat after that, or, as I sometimes think, quite a lot, but still I know some players by name that when I see one of them coming towards me I can only think "ok, that's it. I'm dead meat." Some guys are truly learned, and in UT2003 you can move really fast if you time your dodges & stuff correctly.

      You might want to have look at this:

      For example with a normal dodge you do a 338 UU distance (~4 meters i think), but the maximum distance you can travel (with speed combo & shieldwalldodgejump) seems to be almost 10 TIMES that much. (Yes, me too am ) Even without speed it can be as much as 6 times the normal dodge distance.


        but if you use berserk in combination with shield gun, then you go at least twice the distance as using speed.



          Eh, I feel I don't understand. Shield gun is not, after all, a jet propulsion engine, but a one-hit help for jumping, is it not? As far as I know berserk doesn't increase the impact, only increase fire rate.


            The reason berserk may be more useful for extremely long jumps is that it increases weapon power by 1.5. This inludes knockback so the additional speed gained by the berserk counteracts any additional speed from the speed combo. Plus as far as I can tell, the speed combo seems to only work for running speed and not airspeed, which is the real problem with trying to go very far very fast, since airspeed is the key.

            Edit: aTourist, have you seen the flag-funning video by boogity-boy? That may enlighten you a bit about extreme jumping. For example, his trip across face-classic in three hops may show why berserk is so useful. Personally I suck at shield jumping so I couldn't show a video of myself, but some of those jumps in boogity-boy's have to be at least 3-4 times the max possible with speed and he does it in fewer steps.


              Originally posted by ChaosJester
              have you seen the flag-funning video by boogity-boy?
              Just watched. Well that was nice. :haha:


                haha, that video is what inspired me to start using the shield more effectively. and i use that technique often on face classic. works amazingly well since the enemy never expects it.


                  well heres my advise for you. Play the game in the position in which using the keyboard and the mouse is comfortable 4 u. Always strafe ur never gonna get anywhere without it. when chosing a weapon, pick the one ur best with. i can kill more people with the flak cannon than with the redeemer, with the redeemer i always end up killing myself. come train on my server i could help u.

                  Server: Russells Classic Server

                  see u there!!



                    Originally posted by CREMBELS
                    No, the skins are only for looks, not for gameplay
                    Well... certain model with certain skins may be easier to see. If I can see you, I'll kill you much faster. But since you can't change your skin with every map, this gets a little tough to manipulate. As far as directly effecting gameply, you're right. Nothing really matters. But strategicly speaking, the smaller your model is, the harder it is to hit. And the more similar your skin is to your environment (especially wall color) that harder you are to see.

                    This is something that alot of people take in to account with Quake 3 Arena. I used to compete in q3a and you wouldn't believe the number of people that played with Bones just because he was so difficult to see, regardless of how annoying his model sounds were. hehe.



                      ^^^ The above is a post by Lotus on "How to get good" - some of it doesn't help if you don't have the basics down, but it's very useful to read this in terms of improvement.


                      ^^^ Basic movement for UT2004. Teaches all the basic stuff (dodge, dodge jump, elevator jump, ramp-slide, wall-dodge) and gives a brief intro to slope-slides for maps like Antalus, Tokara-Forest, and various outdoor onslaught maps. Take the "when to use / is it useful" stuff with a grain of salt - my opinion on that has somewhat changed since I wrote it, and I'm not sure that part is particularly accurate anymore. However, the techniques themselves work quite well.



                        nice material. Thanks.


                          hey sundae, i tried to register at the catacombs forums so that i could view the thread you linked, but it wouldn't except my email addresses gmail and yahoo). is there any way you could send the passage to me in a PM?


                            Text from the post:

                            UT2004 movement:

                            UT2004 has actually "nerfed" the movement somewhat from its predecessors, but there's still moderately complicated movement remaining in the game.

                            The basics:

                            Double Jump:

                            Hit jump, and then before you reach the top of your jump, hit it again. The previous posts claiming the bots can go higher than you is just plain wrong. If you get it right, you can go just as high as they do. It's just a matter of timing, learning how to do it correctly, and learning the (somewhat different) air-control of the game. Air-control primarily makes an appearance in more advanced moves, but is still useful for maneuvering to places on a double jump. For example, that shield in idoma that can be gotten to from below, as mentioned above. A double-jump gets you there from the ledge below. A shield-jump, properly timed crouch-dodge-jump, or goo jump (not covered in this post b/c it's downright stupid) will get you there from across in the middle section.

                            Make sure you can double jump because many of the more advanced use require good timing with it.



                            Another basic move. Double-tap in a direction you would be walking, and your character will make a little leap in that direction. Nothing fancy, useful when you figure out the timing of the enemy's weapons and can help you avoid spam.

                            Make sure you can do this. It's quite important for more advanced moves.


                            DODGE JUMPING

                            This is the biggy. A lot of those moves you see bots do that you think are impossible are based off of this move. This is the closest you will get to the bunny hop in UT2004, so learn how to use it well. It's the fastest way around the level, and in tandem with slope-slides is a HUGE advantage in terms of speed. When you master the air-control in the game (TFCers should pick up on this very quickly. It's easier than the TFC air-accel.) you can fire yourself in just about any direction you want, curve around pillars / walls, and (a personal favorite b/c it screws with close-combat opponents) leap around enemy players in a circle and end up right back where you started if you choose, or anywhere in between. (Watch them spin firing randomly looking for you. *of course, this doesn't apply to high-level players - they'll just frag you*)

                            Do a dodge to the left or the right (you can do forward or back too, but in combo with air-control, they're not really worth the extra time it takes to stop yourself and double-click W, for example, when you can do it straight out of D or A without stopping moving forward).

                            Ok - now BEFORE YOU HIT THE GROUND off that dodge, hit jump. It'll turn your dodge into a dodge + double-jump. If you time it right, it'll send you about 3x further than a normal dodge would.

                            In order to control it better, grab a map and start running around. Just dodge-jump EVERYWHERE. Do it on any map you like playing, until you get used to doing it consistantly and never mess up. This is the most important movement method in the game just because of its ability to be used in every single level, in almost any circumstance, be it map-control in TDM or running a flag in CTF. Or dodging out of the way of a Manta or Cicada in ONS too. (Note: If you don't know what a Cicada is, download the Epic ECE Bonus Pack. It adds new vehicles to Onslaught.)

                            In UT2004, crouching pulls your feet up if you're in the air, rather than your body down. Learn to use this in conjunction with a dodge-jump and you can get up ledges that are slightly too high otherwise.



                            No... it's not like the one you're used to.

                            Occasionally in levels you'll see things just randomly placed at slopes. For example, in DM-Rankin there are the occasional boards that seem to just be placed as decorations. These are NOT decorative. Dodge or Dodge-jump into one (this will take practice to get the distances / angles down right) and you will slide up the "ramp" and can land yourself on the higher level above it. (Notice that these are always coincidently placed where there's another level above you. That's b/c this is a standard movement technique now.)



                            Slope-slide is effectively the same thing as the above mentioned ramp-slide. The only difference is that in maps like DM-Antalus where there is terrain instead of architecture, you can use this to get around the level faster. (This applies to all terrain maps with semi-steep terrain - not just antalus, and not just DM.)

                            Dodge-jump into the slope at an angle so that you'd still be moving forward. Without losing much of your speed, you will slidge partially up the slope and can maneuver yourself along it for an *ok* distance. Not far, but it'll cut a second or two off of your commute if you do it right. Because all power-ups in UT2004 are on constant timers (based on when they were last picked up), SECONDS MATTER. It can be the difference between your opponent having the +100 or you. Or for that matter, the redeemer or double damage.

                            This takes a good bit of practice to get used to doing on a regular basis and really isn't all THAT important if you have good teamwork and/or other skills to compensate for speed, so don't focus too much on it until you've mastered other basics first.



                            Try this one for fun: Go stand next to a wall, (in contact) and double-jump up. Now, while you're still in the air and in contact with wall, dodge to the side (away from wall). Your character will kick off the wall and go in the direction you wanted to head. This is a tough one to get used to doing (it doesn't really feel natural at first, and often you find you weren't actually in contact with the wall... and plus when you're fighting someone you sorta don't think about it), but this is a really good way to throw off someone's aim if they're a hitscan *****. (LG, Shock Rifle, Minigun, Sniper Rifle, Assault Rifle - these are all server-side hitscan. Yes... that means you have to lead people a little if you're lagging. No client-side hitscan here.)

                            This is a useful move. Not a VERY VERY useful move, but useful. Know how to do it, use it if you think of it, but otherwise it's probably better to rely on aim, your shield, and speed. Oh - and also just don't let yourself get in a position where you have no choice but to do that.


                            Elevator Jump

                            USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

                            This is incredibly useful in some levels (DM-Grendelkeep, go from Shock Rifle canal up to, and land on, the lightning gun); in other levels it sucks. Just gotta learn from experience when to use it.

                            Any momentum applied to you in UT2004 stays with you until an alternative force acts on you (eg... gravity, wall, or giant ball of goo). Even to the point where it becomes ridiculous and against physics.

                            Step on an elevator. Before you make it to the top of the elevator (takes timing - just work on it), jump. You will take your jump's momentum, and add to it the momentum of the elevator shoving you up. In the case of DM-Grendelkeep you can fly a good 80-100 feet into the air (game terms) and even hit the ceiling if you go too high. From here, use your aim control (and for good measure, double jump so you stay up there even higher!) and fly yourself wherever it is you can land within reach of you.

                            As for the USE AT OWN RISK: You are now a clay pigeon. Anyone with a halfway decent sense of the game's physics can shoot you while you're a predictable projectile. If they do it with a rocket, you will probably see your name in an AVI sometime soon. Often this move is useful... other times you're insane to try it.

                            Examples of use: DM-1v1-Albatross: This is how you reach the double-damage. DM-Grendelkeep - SR to LG. CTF-Orbital: Double-Damage, RPG, Shield via elevjump.

                            That's probably enough to get ya started and get where you can outrun those pesky bots and match their movement tricks.

                            Oh - just to mention, since I didn't have it in the article: Those flips, somersaults, etc, that you see them do: They just do them. Your character does it too if it's built into the animations. They're not special tricks.

                            GL! Got any questions / want any help learning the game, PM me at Atari Forums or find me at my clan's server.


                            Again, take my comments on when / if they're useful as what they are - just comments. I was still fairly inexperienced, strategy-wise at least, when I wrote that article back a few months ago. The movement methods work, though.


                              thanks sundae. but why did you shy away from shield jumps and goo jumps? and good jumps work really well if you get used to them (they are a pain in the **** when first trying though).