Fighting on foot while vehicles all around...

[legacy-SonicBlaster200]

Originally posted by Firebert
for me vehicles have mostly become a way to get from place to place, manta & rider is the best way to win vCTF, i have much more fun fighting vehicles because they're so much easier to kill. i fought off 4 vehicles for about half the map before they finally killed me. Also the Hellbender's sniper is pretty useful, and their skymines are probably the only vehicle weapon thats not easy to get around. O and anyone stupid enough to get in a levi by themselves w/o support deservers to die, and you said you left it?? you never leave it, ever.

Yes you leave it, when its 6 on 1, health at 400 your not going to do much in your levi. You mean their shock link, well it is easy to get around you just go onto the otherside of the hellbinder to the back on the 3rd turret. The hellbinders shock combo turret cant get you there, and from there the only person who even remotely has a chance of killing you is the driver.

[legacy-Machine6]

I've played in many, many clan level matches, and I guarantee that not of of my clan mates or opponents thought that vehicles were unimportant. If you walked into a match thinking that they were and didn't use them to your advantage, you'd have an extremely difficult time doing what needed to be done. In many maps, the loss of one single vehicle means that you'll lose the map, no matter how good you are with a shock rifle. In Frostbite, for instance, before the vehicle-dump bug was fixed, if the opponent stole your raptor, you were done-for because the goliath would commence to running roughshod over your team.

Again, like you've been saying, all vehicles have their counters, but I'd wager that a skilled manta pilot will take out a skilled DMer 6 out of 10 times (and that's being conservative), and 99 out of 100 when said DMer is engaged with someone else. That's just speculation, but I'm going by my own experience during matches (it's even higher in pubs).

[legacy-SonicBlaster200]

Obviously you havent seen clan level match if you still believe that buddy. Theres a difference between what your talking about, at the level I'm talking about vehicles are absolutely useless regardless if your well seasoned with them. In ONS-Frostbite at the clan levels I'm talking about the goliath doesn't matter. The last important fact your missing is that Clan Level matches operate on the Team Death Match gametype, in which case their skill is also in a small fraction tied up with teamwork.

Difference between the DMers and Clans you think are "high" leveled players, is that they probably DONT play with Friendly Fire on at 100%, and they arent at the level if they can be run over by any sort of vehicle (provided there is the rare case in which he does get killed by one, however those cases are rare at the sort of level I'm talking about.)

Fact is: Vehicles have bad control, and have bad mobility. You cant run over a person in a manta who always jumps over you or does a double jump to the side where your momentum has to be slowed down in order to accellerate in another direction.

Point is, if you still believe vehicles are of any use then you shouldn't be talking about Unreal Tournament, because the fact of the matter is clans operating at the highest levels of competition will definitly make vehicles absolutely useless. Fact is in Onslaught FrostBite a goliath can be killed by one man, and a goliath wont run through your team if your experienced. Why do people at the highest levels of competition avoid vehicles? Simple because they know their effectiveness is being cut in half by bad control. The fact is on foot your slower in terms of speed but much more mobile to dodge projectiles.

Before you start disregarding the shock rifle, you should seriously get your facts straight. Because the real fact is that it can take out any vehicle regardless of the circumstances provided the player using it is at the levels of skill I mention. You can keep giving your reasons for why you think vehicles are important. But take my advice, if you ever get a chance to play highly profiled, high competitive, and highly skilled clans you should keep to foot, because you'll have a better chance of living then if your in a vehicle which in reality only makes it easier to kill you because of the sheer size.

If you are too blind to realize vehicles do no help then I seriously cant give you the flawes of your reasoning to make you a better player. Doesn't matter how skilled you are with a vehicle, you can get owned by those on the highest possible levels of skill.

Yes I saw and read that you said you played with some clans, well the fact is those clans were probably not very skilled, and probably dont participate in real competitive "clan matches" for that reason.

Also when you said "but I'd wager that a skilled manta pilot will take out a skilled DMer 6 out of 10 times", just because he's a Death Match player doesn't make him at the highest levels of competition. Therefore your reasoning is flawed.

[legacy-Coriolis]

And what´s your point now? Are you saying we should avoid vehicles and walk on foot, because in a vehicle we´d be immediately owned? Or when facing an enemy, immediately get out of the vehicle and try to kill him on foot?
Sorry, but if you think vehicles do no good, you shouldn´t play ONS... they have such a great impact on the course of a match, saying they are useless is just plain wrong.

I do not doubt that elite clan players have perfected their fighting strategies against vehicles and that they can make any less-skilled opponent look completely helpless. But at the same time, they certainly also have good abilities if it comes to using a vehicle and know well in which situations they are usefull and in which not. I haven´t watched clan tournaments nor did I participate in one, but from my experience, the best onslaught players in a match are always those who are most versatile with vehicles and have a good sense of strategy (versatile in a sense, that they are not only very skilled with the vehicle, they also know where and when to use it).

And even if you put down my arguments, the majority of players are no elite clanners and will often loose a direct fight against a vehicle - and enjoy it. Vehicles might not be that important in the small percentage of high-level clan fights, but they definitely are in normal games.

[legacy-SonicBlaster200]

Originally posted by Coriolis
And what´s your point now? Are you saying we should avoid vehicles and walk on foot, because in a vehicle we´d be immediately owned? Or when facing an enemy, immediately get out of the vehicle and try to kill him on foot?

No, I'm saying its best to avoid using vehicles for combat, since if you wish to further develop your skills in the steep learning curve that is something your going to have to shed at an early stage. If you notice when ONS players port over to gametypes that involve heavy fragging in most cases they are outmatched purely because they waste far too much time developing unessential skills.

Originally posted by Coriolis

Sorry, but if you think vehicles do no good, you shouldn´t play ONS... they have such a great impact on the course of a match, saying they are useless is just plain wrong.

I dont play Onslaught anymore, although when I do and its usually because of my friends I tend to tip the balance of power. But I'm no great player, I've just learned from the people at the highest levels of skill to avoid using vehicles and to begin developing the most essential skills in a First Person Shooter. They may have impact on the course of the match, your right, however when you mix in the high level competitive users (again referring to the high-skillset clans) they will undoubtably make that impact equal to nothing.

Originally posted by Coriolis

I do not doubt that elite clan players have perfected their fighting strategies against vehicles and that they can make any less-skilled opponent look completely helpless. But at the same time, they certainly also have good abilities if it comes to using a vehicle and know well in which situations they are usefull and in which not.

That is where your wrong, If you had taken the liberty of reading my posts above you would have known that most of these players have perfected their fighting strategies skills, and awareness around them. They go through vigerous training excersises that I've tried but ultimately failed horribly while they shine. Such training excersises would be far beyond the skillset of an Onslaught Regular player (not counting those who've had experience from other First Person Shooters), or a person who uses vehicles. Such excersises include regular deathmatch practices with their clan mates, and a very difficult and heavily mutated invasion server, which definitly sharpens awareness and dodging in general. Exspecially when you have 20 monsters on yourself firing lethal lightning projectiles, and missles.

Also keep in mind since these guys are very competitive they do have hardware and software which gives them the advantage, such as a surround sound system which would give you the uncanny ability to "hear" your opponites approach from behind and up-front.

Originally posted by Coriolis
haven´t watched clan tournaments nor did I participate in one, but from my experience, the best onslaught players in a match are always those who are most versatile with vehicles and have a good sense of strategy (versatile in a sense, that they are not only very skilled with the vehicle, they also know where and when to use it).

Onslaught is that Onslaught, but its ashame since you havent seen the skills involved in ladders, and highly-profiled clan competitions you have no basic knowledge of what I mean by pure "ownage" by these individuals and or groups. But the difference here is, that your talking about the average and above-average user. Now we are talking about users that are the top players in this game. How do they make vehicles useless? Well basically to them a vehicle is just a bigger target, faster moving, and more powerful. But in clan-competition, individuals are required to come up with strategies and implement them on the spot. It doesn't take long before they have their strategy down on the table and plowing through your forces like they are nothing.

Whatever you think may be impossible really isn't, the learning curve for unreal tournament is steep.

Guy A gets beat by Guy B 0-30
Guy B gets beat by Guy C 0-30
Guy C gets beat by Guy D 0-30
Guy D gets beat by Guy E 0-30
Guy E gets beat by Guy F 0-30
Guy F gets beat by Guy G 0-30

now if you mix Guy A (lets say he's average) with Guy G (the uber-leet player) you get one guy whos going to purely own Guy A regardless of the circumstances (not including a lucky shot.) To Guy A what Guy G does can seem impossible, but if you never seen it before then you really cant speak out that vehicles are better then being on foot.

Originally posted by Coriolis

And even if you put down my arguments, the majority of players are no elite clanners and will often loose a direct fight against a vehicle - and enjoy it. Vehicles might not be that important in the small percentage of high-level clan fights, but they definitely are in normal games.

True, you do have a point, most people arent like that, however to develop your skills you have got to start somewhere, and that somewhere is getting out of your vehicle and doing the killing the way it was meant to be, man to man.

[legacy-Coriolis]

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
No, I'm saying its best to avoid using vehicles for combat, since if you wish to further develop your skills in the steep learning curve that is something your going to have to shed at an early stage. If you notice when ONS players port over to gametypes that involve heavy fragging in most cases they are outmatched purely because they waste far too much time developing unessential skills.

Well, for me, mastering vehicles is a part of the learning curve. Sure, these skills won´t help you in a DM or CTF game, but for ONS they are simply necessary. If you want to be good at DM, then you have to play DM, since Onslaught is a different gametype in which fragging your enemies has quite a different importance than in DM.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
But I'm no great player, I've just learned from the people at the highest levels of skill to avoid using vehicles and to begin developing the most essential skills in a First Person Shooter.

Same argument as above, it depends what you consider essential skills in a FPS. Being good with vehicles is a big plus when it comes to Onslaught.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
That is where your wrong, If you had taken the liberty of reading my posts above you would have known that most of these players have perfected their fighting strategies skills, and awareness around them. They go through vigerous training excersises that I've tried but ultimately failed horribly while they shine. Such training excersises would be far beyond the skillset of an Onslaught Regular player (not counting those who've had experience from other First Person Shooters), or a person who uses vehicles. Such excersises include regular deathmatch practices with their clan mates, and a very difficult and heavily mutated invasion server, which definitly sharpens awareness and dodging in general. Exspecially when you have 20 monsters on yourself firing lethal lightning projectiles, and missles.

I read all of your posts in this thread with great interest, bud. I am well aware that clan players do training sessions which would seem brutal to any ordinary player and that they have exceptional awareness and reflexes. But those alone won´t win them a match. You said vehicles are bigger targets, that´s a true fact and makes them highly vulnerable to many attacks which would be difficult to accomplish against an enemy on foot. But they generally also have higher firepower and can consume some damage, which is giving the driver time to destroy nodes and such. Not to mention that some vehicles can transport several players very fast and if you´re good with it, you can own your enemies just because you´re more mobile than they are.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
Onslaught is that Onslaught, but its ashame since you havent seen the skills involved in ladders, and highly-profiled clan competitions you have no basic knowledge of what I mean by pure "ownage" by these individuals and or groups.

If you know some movies showing what you described or some servers where you can spectate those "ownage" players, tell me. I doubt this could convince me that vehicles are useless, but I´d be interesting to see that style of fighting.

Originally posted by SonicBlaste200
But in clan-competition, individuals are required to come up with strategies and implement them on the spot. It doesn't take long before they have their strategy down on the table and plowing through your forces like they are nothing.

Good players teaming up to take down powerful vehicles is a natural thing and necessary if you want to win a match. I agree that players communicating over mic can develop an efficient tactic in a very short time, or even without that just by a good 'sense of the situation'.
On the other hand, there are cooperative tactics with vehicles as well. Whomever witnessed the situation of three Mantas attacking a node from different directions will agree that this is equally hard to deal with.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
True, you do have a point, most people arent like that, however to develop your skills you have got to start somewhere, and that somewhere is getting out of your vehicle and doing the killing the way it was meant to be, man to man.

Well, if killing players in Onslaught would be meant to be man to man, Epic would have implemented transport-only vehicles without weapons.

To sum it up, I only partly agree with you. It is indeed better in some situations to get out of your vehicle and take down the enemy on foot. However, there is an at least equal amount of situations in which you have much better chances when you´re using your vehicle properly. A good Onslaught player will be able to decide in which case either of these two ways will help him most.

[legacy-SonicBlaster200]

Originally posted by Coriolis
Well, for me, mastering vehicles is a part of the learning curve. Sure, these skills won´t help you in a DM or CTF game, but for ONS they are simply necessary. If you want to be good at DM, then you have to play DM, since Onslaught is a different gametype in which fragging your enemies has quite a different importance than in DM.

Not entirely, If you take these highly skilled players and place them on a server with experienced "Onslaught'ers" the fact is they would undoubtably own the onslaught players. There is a flawe to your logic, if your saying Onslaught is a gametype where fragging is more important, then a highly experienced player would make the difference. The thing is Onslaught and DM arent different, aside from the objectives and the fact there is vehicles. It is still the same game nevertheless.

Originally posted by Coriolis
Same argument as above, it depends what you consider essential skills in a FPS. Being good with vehicles is a big plus when it comes to Onslaught.

The point is being a good with vehicles doesn't help when your playing againsed such players. Nor will it help in your total basis of skill. If you think being good with vehicles is a bonus for Onslaught your partly correct, a bonus againsed the people in that general frame of skillset. And yes it does partly depend on how you see it, but the "fact" which determins it all is that First Person Shooting games didn't begin with vehicles, and arent souly based on vehicles. They are based on man to man combat. If you look at what EPIC has done do you think they would have wanted vehicles to win againsed highly skilled players? No they Didn't otherwise why would they have simulated the goliath tanks slow moving main gun with reality? Why would they have made it absolutely neccessary to slow down before a manta can procceed in another direction? Aside from the fact they are trying to simulate realistic movement.

Fact is they made it so an highly experienced player CAN beat vehicles. Highly experienced players can easily hop around the goliath to avoid its main gun using the triple jump technique (strafe and double jump) or Jump on top of the goliath to duce out some damage. Jump to the side of a manta that way it needs to slow down before its able to change directions to slice you, Jump over a scorpians blades that way it needs to make a 360 degree turn which brings it to a halt in order to make another run at a guy. Go up close to a leviathan or on top of one where only its super weapons area damage can even remotely kill you. Shock the raptor so it cant get to where it wants to go.

Its not essential, its just extra. Untill you understand that there is really no sense in joining a ladder where people will show you that Vehicles mean nothing.

Originally posted by Coriolis

I read all of your posts in this thread with great interest, bud. I am well aware that clan players do training sessions which would seem brutal to any ordinary player and that they have exceptional awareness and reflexes. But those alone won´t win them a match. You said vehicles are bigger targets, that´s a true fact and makes them highly vulnerable to many attacks which would be difficult to accomplish against an enemy on foot. But they generally also have higher firepower and can consume some damage, which is giving the driver time to destroy nodes and such. Not to mention that some vehicles can transport several players very fast and if you´re good with it, you can own your enemies just because you´re more mobile than they are.

Your logic is impared, they will win the match on these skills (provided they dont play with other people equally skilled as they are), if you can dodge hitscan projectiles, and awareness and reflex's are awesome it becomes almost impossible to kill these guys. If you put them on a server with a bunch of onslaught'ers they will win the match (provided they have a decent team), fact is when your mixing Guy A and G there is no way Guy A can hope to kill Guy G unless its by pure luck. If they can hear a manta making a run at them they can dodge it. If they can hear a scorpian comming from behind they can jump over it. If they hear a raptors plasma being fired they can move around making it hard for the pilot to hit him. If they hear a leviathan firing its missles or deploying its main projectile they can make a run for it.

Your point is valid that vehicles can transport people, and yes your can own your enemies because you are more mobile then they are. If they cant run you over or hit you with weapons then all thats left for you to do is fire your weapons and take them out.

Just because a vehicle is more powerful doesn't mean it will kill those whome are at the tops in skill. All it means to them is "I cannot be hit or else I'm dead" and they operate well under that sort of pressure since alot of these people who I mention throughout my posts, do operate on a close game win situation with other users of their skill. Many highly skilled clans that have matches only win by 1 or two maybe 3 or 4 frags. A lot of the time if one user is on a streak he usually gets close to the death point where he doesn't have enough life to stand up to one more shot.

Consuming more damage means nothing to these sort of players, because all it means is getting rid of extra shield, which a lot of them attempt to accumulate during the course of a clan match.

Originally posted by Coriolis

If you know some movies showing what you described or some servers where you can spectate those "ownage" players, tell me. I doubt this could convince me that vehicles are useless, but I´d be interesting to see that style of fighting.

No I do not have any movies, but you yourself can go watch these guys on ladders (towards the end of the ladders, not everyone that apply's is considered highly skilled but usually at the end they are since many clans want to beat eachother and usually take part www.clanbase.com -Clanbase ladder), and tournaments. They rarely make appearences on public servers partly because the competition is far too easy, and public people usually accuse them of cheating because of their highten'ed abilities and skill.

Its not a style, its a level. The distinguished difference is defined through actions such as "passive" fragging, or "full-front assault."
The term "level" means at a higher level of skill therefore their techniques are more polished, and their abilities exceed that of the previous level, and so on.

Originally posted by Coriolis
Well, if killing players in Onslaught would be meant to be man to man, Epic would have implemented transport-only vehicles without weapons.

No Onslaught itself wasn't meant to be fully man to man, but the game itself was. Onslaught just has vehicles to please a new generation of gamers who themselves are out to have fun instead of serious competition. Thats what distinguishes your line of thinking and mine.

Originally posted by Coriolis
To sum it up, I only partly agree with you. It is indeed better in some situations to get out of your vehicle and take down the enemy on foot. However, there is an at least equal amount of situations in which you have much better chances when you´re using your vehicle properly. A good Onslaught player will be able to decide in which case either of these two ways will help him most.

You dont have to agree with me, however its generally best to since I've been there, and done that, and seen whats to come. Its like determining who has more knowledge over a situation, a child or an elder who has been there, and lived through it.

Just because you use a vehicle properly doesn't mean you'll be able to kill these players. Good at Onslaught is good at Onslaught but if you have a highly skilled player in general, he will take that title. The fact is most of these skilled players dont play onslaught on public servers because the overall skill of the competition is soo greatly lower.

[legacy-Coriolis]

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
There is a flawe to your logic, if your saying Onslaught is a gametype where fragging is more important, then a highly experienced player would make the difference.

You got me wrong here, read again what I wrote above. I didn´t say fragging was more important in Onslaught, I just said fragging has a different importance. In fact, there are situations in Onslaught where it is better not to kill somebody.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
The thing is Onslaught and DM arent different, aside from the objectives and the fact there is vehicles.

That´s the old prejudice many DMers have about onslaught. It is just plain false, because 'objectives' are the main point about this gametype, not fragging somebody which is the main point about DM.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
And yes it does partly depend on how you see it, but the "fact" which determins it all is that First Person Shooting games didn't begin with vehicles, and arent souly based on vehicles. They are based on man to man combat. If you look at what EPIC has done do you think they would have wanted vehicles to win againsed highly skilled players?

I think Epic put vehicles into Onslaught mainly because of the size of the map and to have some alternative weapons which will have their advantages (and disadvantages) on the big maps. Just like the normal weapons each of them is usefull in one situation or another.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
Highly experienced players can easily hop around the goliath to avoid its main gun using the triple jump technique (strafe and double jump) or Jump on top of the goliath to duce out some damage.

To do that, they have to be close enough. If they are far away and without cover, they´re just cannon fodder. Strafejumping won´t save you from the main cannon´s splash damage by the way. You might survive 1 or 2 shots if you have alot of luck and much health/shield, but generally it´s instant death.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
Jump to the side of a manta that way it needs to slow down before its able to change directions to slice you, Jump over a scorpians blades that way it needs to make a 360 degree turn which brings it to a halt in order to make another run at a guy.

A skilled onslaught player will never do what you describe here, turning around in place. Manta and Scorpion pilots will usually attempt to make a quick move and run over their victim and if they fail, they will get back at distance again.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
Go up close to a leviathan or on top of one where only its super weapons area damage can even remotely kill you.

Again you´re assuming it is easy or a common thing to get close to a Leviathan. It isn´t, if the driver isn´t a fool or has backup from his team.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
Your logic is impared, they will win the match on these skills (provided they dont play with other people equally skilled as they are), if you can dodge hitscan projectiles, and awareness and reflex's are awesome it becomes almost impossible to kill these guys.

Your logic isn´t much better, because if they have those skills, someone else on foot won´t be in a more preferable situation.

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
Just because a vehicle is more powerful doesn't mean it will kill those whome are at the tops in skill.

Not necessarily, but before you have to get out and fight your enemy face-to-face, you have a good chance to weaken him while being protected within your vehicle (not in all, but in many).

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
You dont have to agree with me, however its generally best to since I've been there, and done that, and seen whats to come. Its like determining who has more knowledge over a situation, a child or an elder who has been there, and lived through it.

That comparison just made me grin, sorry. You said you don´t play Onslaught anymore and I could take the examples you pulled out here as a sign that you haven´t alot overall, but I´m not starting on that.

This thread is slowly degrading into a 'DMers will always be better than ONSers' topic and there are enough of those debates over in the General Discussion forum. Maybe Onslaught with its vehicles is just still to young, so that good DMers with their great experience are able to beat vehicles. It would be interesting to see how things are in a few years, I´m pretty sure that once some people really master vehicles, they´ll be an adequate opponent for a top-skill DMer.

Since you have your point of view and I have mine, continueing on will probably lead nowhere, so I´ll drop this discussion here. We´ve gotten rather far from the original topic anyway.

[legacy-Machine6]

Originally posted by SonicBlaster200
Obviously you havent seen clan level match if you still believe that buddy.

LMAO. Well, "buddy," you're more than welcome to jump on our server, or the server of any of your other so-called unskilled ONS clans that frequent these boards here, and show us the error of our ways, and to show me how my logic and reasoning is flawed after you get mowed down time after time while you pooh-pooh and look down on the vehicles.

My whole point was that vehicles are as useful as the driver is. For the last time, I (and any other 'slaughter) agree that vehicles can be taken down by one guy. I do it all the time. There's no argument there! But it's folly to assume that you or some other l33t TDMer will always win against a vehicle, because I, and many others, will prove you wrong time after time.

If you are too blind to realize vehicles do no help then I seriously cant give you the flawes of your reasoning to make you a better player.

I don't think I'd be likely to want advice from you (a guy that thinks vehicles are of no use during on ONS match) as how to make me a better player. Thanks, though.

Before you start disregarding the shock rifle, you should seriously get your facts straight.

Where did I say I "disregard" the shock rifle? I use it often to take out vehicles and "infantry." I'm well aware of what a shock can do and how to use it.

But take my advice, if you ever get a chance to play highly profiled, high competitive, and highly skilled clans you should keep to foot

I'm gonna have to refrain from taking your advice again.

I've said over and over that I have played some highly skilled, competetive clans, and me and my stupid self wasn't the only one killing and dying in vehicles.

I'm guessing, though, that you'll (again) come back with the tired ol' "you obviously haven't played skilled clans" thing. Take a look at the ladders here in NA and pick any of the top five on each and know that I've played them many times in organized ladder matches (as opposed to the pubs you and your friends tip the scales in...lol).

Yeah, yeah, we all know that Europe clans>everyone else, but get over yourself for a bit. Point being, I've played with and against the best clans North America has to offer, and if you think any of them will shun a goliath, or walk past a 'bender so they can fight on foot, you're crazy.

Now, that's not to say that they can't or won't fight on foot, but they are smart enough to use the tools available to them, and if they have a choice between a shock rifle and the 'bender's twin beams, they're gonna use the best weapon for the job...sometimes it's the shock, sometimes it's the beams, and sometimes it's simply running over an otherwise occupied enemy with the manta.

Anyhow, I didn't intend for this to turn into a ******* match, but don't they always? In any case, I have a hard time believing you're not just trolling for the fun of it, since I can't wrap my mind around a guy that thinks vehicles in Ons are completely useless.

[legacy-PrinceMarth0]

Originally posted by Firebert
k...honestly though a decent player wouldn't get owned by a manta, and infanstry verses manta is actually pretty good, if you have shock, mini, flack, or avril, the manta shouldn't stand a chance, if you have rocket scorpion and bender dont stant a chance, also, shock combos work better for killing nodes then manta, so its usually smart to get out, vehicles aren't really an advantage against good players, its just a good way to kill noobs

Except a tank, most everyone can get killed by that, but a scorp or a manta can just be dodged, cause their main weapon is road kill. :down: :noob:

[legacy-Machine6]

Boy, I hate to beat this thoroughly dead horse but...

Sonic (recommended to everyone else here, too), I found an extreme example for you, so educate yourself and mosey on over here: http://www.prounreal.com/files.php?c=demos and scroll down a bit.

You've heard of Kaizen, right? How 'bout Demise? Seems we have server side demos of a little Onslaught match where, you guessed it, they're using the hell out of the vehicles. There's a couple of them there, but make sure to watch the Frostbite demo, in which Demise does a wonderful job of proving my point about the goliaths on that map.

Interesting, no? Unless, of course, you believe they're not "high level competition."

**slightly edited for punctuation**

[legacy-Lengis]

>>>>>>>You think your safe just because your in a goliath or a leviathan? Well there is a bug to the goliath if the person stands right on top of the minigun turret the minigun just fires through him, and the main turret cant hit him unless killing himself in the proccess. The leviathan cant angle its missle launcher to the point where it can hit people that are crouched on top of its nuclear gun. So link or flak away and boom they go. <<<<<<<<

This makes no sense... How the hell are you going to get right on top of a leviathan or a goliath so easily? Especially on wide, open maps like Red Planet, they will spot you from a distance, and trust me, you will be shot down. And besides, if you do some how miraculously manage to get on top of goliath or Levi, any experienced player knows to have either infantry, or air support, both of which can pick off nasty tank leechers.


Believe it or not, this game mirrors real life combat a lot. In real life, we have plenty of handheld rockets that can destroy tanks with a single shot, ditto goes for choppers, and other vehicles. So why do you think we still use them? Because they have huge advantages over infantry in terms of mobility, fire power, and the ability to adapt to changing circumstances.

Take my word for it, a skilled team using a combination of vehicles and infantry, has a big advantage over a team just using infantry.