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    #16
    Originally posted by iniside View Post
    The point is people expecting new features, not fixing something they don't use.
    Open World support is still severely lacking in UE4 and it's going to be focus over next few months. Which is good thing. There is still no forward rendering, there new things that lie just ehad (DirectX 12 for example), and it all begs to be implemented ASAP to the state it's working.
    But hey what do I know.. I pull new branches from GitHub as soon as they are available ;p.


    Besides. I can't turn blind eye to broken features, because.. I didn't encounter any broken features that stop me from working.
    Most "broken" things I have even encountered turned out be working just fine, I just didn't know how to use them, didn't know they existed or I have broken them myself by writing bad code. But this hardly make them broken by design.
    the features are being used. you might not be facing problems but others are.
    I don't use UE4 a lot (still focus on my UDK project), but every time I have some time to use it I hit a roadblock that forces me to focus on something else.
    I could list you my problems but I doubt you're interested and/or affected by them, but the worst case offender is a crash while trying to keep an actor's modified properties after a Simulation (vital for my NPC work) which I reported back in April when UE4 was still in beta, was fixed for only a few cases in 4.2, but still appears in 4.5, yes 6 months later. and this is only one issue from a number of them.
    I've also gotten crashes while working on more mainstream stuff (materials), and the whole thing feels slower as new features are added.
    and translucency sorting is still as bad as it was in UE3, 10 years ago. just try intersecting 2 translucent spheres into each other. or take a character's material, set it to translucent, and set the alpha to 0.99. the magic of horrible graphics will appear in front of your eyes

    but based on your argument ("fixing something they don't use"), then why introduce features that won't be used by anyone?

    my point is, missing future features don't block nearly as much as broken existing features. DirectX12 will still be there in 6 months, and I doubt the lack of better World Composition tools is blocking a game from being developed.

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      #17
      i kind of agree with everything said here.
      why did epic kill udk? who knows, seems crazy to me too

      ue4 is awesome and will continue to get more awesome, but i see a theme in epics decision making that makes me wonder if its worth sticking with the unreal engine at all.
      take udk for example,
      in the beginning it was small and fast, just about everything worked. it stayed that way for a few updates with big improvements that also worked.
      then at some point, seems about the time the dreaded scaleform reared its ugly head and the built in gui system was removed, there was a decision that went something along the lines of
      "fix bugs? No add features!!!"
      and this trend is becoming apparent in ue4 too, there is a difference in that the real big bugs are addressed through direct communication with ue4 users and eventually get fixed, at least for a while.
      but there does seem to be the same kind of feature adding frenzy going on while most bugs are ignored, and just like udk, its getting slower and more bloated with every update. there seems absolutely no attempt at optimizing the existing code, instead they add features to the features that slow it down even more and potentially cause more bugs.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Chosker View Post
        the features are being used. you might not be facing problems but others are.
        I don't use UE4 a lot (still focus on my UDK project), but every time I have some time to use it I hit a roadblock that forces me to focus on something else.
        I could list you my problems but I doubt you're interested and/or affected by them, but the worst case offender is a crash while trying to keep an actor's modified properties after a Simulation (vital for my NPC work) which I reported back in April when UE4 was still in beta, was fixed for only a few cases in 4.2, but still appears in 4.5, yes 6 months later. and this is only one issue from a number of them.
        I've also gotten crashes while working on more mainstream stuff (materials), and the whole thing feels slower as new features are added.
        and translucency sorting is still as bad as it was in UE3, 10 years ago. just try intersecting 2 translucent spheres into each other. or take a character's material, set it to translucent, and set the alpha to 0.99. the magic of horrible graphics will appear in front of your eyes

        my point is, missing future features don't block nearly as much as broken existing features. DirectX12 will still be there in 6 months, and I doubt the lack of better World Composition tools is blocking a game from being developed.
        Bah if you list problems, we might determine if they are engine problems or if you are doing something wrong. Or provide suitable work around.

        The point I have not encountered any road blocks since beta. I managed to keep my code updated with each release (though I admit there is not that much code).
        And it's also not getting slower. Unless you can provide hard proof (numbers), comparison between identical scenes in different version of engine, then it just "I feel like it is slower", which means exactly nothing.

        Translucency sorting is bad. Why is bad ? Because we don't have forward rendering. Why we don't have forward rendering ? Because engine lacks features to support it on PC. And on the other hand you complain that they add to much features (;.

        but based on your argument ("fixing something they don't use"), then why introduce features that won't be used by anyone?
        Well. You have to understand some things.
        They are using engine for their internal projects. Internal project have priority when requesting new features. On last stream Ray Davis said they don't have yet game which use something like Massive LOD system but they planning on one (which means Epic is starting working on some new game). And it aside from Fortnite and UT will dictate what they will be proportioning for engine development.
        It's completly normal in engine development and I don't see any reason to cry about it. You don't like you make your own engine (;.
        It's seems like everything they adding, they feel it will improve their work.

        Next are serious licensee (AA+, like Lionhead, Sony, Microsoft). They are also using engine and requesting new features.


        I really don't see that much people complaining about the fact that they can't finish or do anything, because something is utterly broken. Challenges of game development. If something is stopping you, you work around it, or fix it yourself.

        tl;dr Game Engines are never complete. Adding new features will always have precedence before fixing non-critical bugs. New features have precedence because you can't possibly predict, what your new game will need. And because of that you always have to add something new to support it.

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          #19
          Originally posted by iniside View Post
          Bah if you list problems, we might determine if they are engine problems or if you are doing something wrong. Or provide suitable work around.
          sure I can list problems.
          - The one I already pointed out, the crash after Keeping Simulation Changes for an actor with a property that references another actor. 2 days ago I was finally asked for my project files by an Epic guy so I'm hoping the matter will be solved soon, but again this problem goes all the way back to April 4th.
          - Imposters were introduced and advertised as a feature in 4.3 and even in 4.4 they were not working (haven't tested in 4.5)
          - Animation re-targetting for different Skeletons was introduced in 4.4 with documentation that was pointing to menus and tools that only came in 4.5. despite I tried, it wasn't usable at all in 4.4. in 4.5 the toolset is there, but when I try to re-target an anim from Blueman to a character with a regular Biped from 3dsmax it crashes.
          - PostProcess blendables still don't work for SceneCaptureActors
          - The material editor feels laggy and annoying. gone are the days of instant context menus and connecting nodes in a trusty way like UE3. now we have context menus (right click, or drag a connector into the empty space) that take ~5 seconds to load the first time, and also not snappy-instant the next times. and the visual feedback for the connectors doesn't match the behavior (the connector "hole" lights up and you end up dragging the node). opening blueprints also takes longer and longer every time, like 10 seconds to open a character (and my graphs are completely empty)
          - Didn't happen to me, but a coworker's character blueprints got corrupted from an engine bug (fixed in 4.5) and lost some work. I've seen a number of threads with people that lost a lot of work because of corrupted blueprints.

          Originally posted by iniside View Post
          And it's also not getting slower. Unless you can provide hard proof (numbers), comparison between identical scenes in different version of engine, then it just "I feel like it is slower", which means exactly nothing.
          you're right, I cannot provide hard proof because I won't go back to 4.0 and use a stopwatch. but it's a general feeling (mostly loading times of sub-parts of the editor) and I'm not the only one with it. perhaps you just have better hardware than mine.

          Originally posted by iniside View Post
          Translucency sorting is bad. Why is bad ? Because we don't have forward rendering. Why we don't have forward rendering ? Because engine lacks features to support it on PC. And on the other hand you complain that they add to much features (;.
          no, translucency sorting is as bad as in UE3, which had a forward renderer from the start.
          like I said, try intersecting two translucent spheres or setting a character's opacity to 0.99. the same problems were present in UE3 btw, which had a forward renderer. so a forward renderer alone won't fix this issue.
          and while you can claim that forward rendering would be a new feature, for me it's just a method to fix an existing broken feature (translucency sorting)

          Originally posted by iniside View Post
          Well. You have to understand some things.
          They are using engine for their internal projects. Internal project have priority when requesting new features.
          and you have to understand some things as well. people are paying for this engine.
          not everyone can pay $20 per month and Epic know and enforce this. and for someone that's waiting for a specific feature, pay for a new month to see the new feature doesn't work (and again after another month's release), can surely feel deceptive.

          Originally posted by iniside View Post
          It's completly normal in engine development and I don't see any reason to cry about it. You don't like you make your own engine (;.
          [...]
          Challenges of game development. If something is stopping you, you work around it, or fix it yourself.
          I don't have the time to make my own engine, or fix an existing engine. I want to make a game which is why I'm using an existing engine in the first place.
          I can cope with broken features if fixing them is a priority, no problem. at work we deal with editor crashes every day, but we fix them in a matter of hours/days. in UE4 you report a crash, wait a week for a response (though I understand the volume of problems in AnswerHub is huge), and then wait 1 month (if luck is on your side, else 2 or 3) for the next big release to include a fix.
          but having a new feature introduced and advertised to find out it doesn't work, and see the focus going into yet another new feature, is a different thing.

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