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    #16
    Exactly. i think that when we talk about udk+xml, we're not talking about being pretty or efficient. we are mostly talking about functionality and integration. i hadn't thought of the mobile integration side, because i never worked with that. but i guess that is really a strong issue.
    i think that when people say that xml is completely unnecessary in udk, they are thinking only of traditional high-end commercial games, with hardcore graphics that you play on a high-res desktop screen. i think that whoever considers that a game needs stunning graphics to be a good game, is just a moron in the game industry. and i work especially with environment modelling, characters, visual effects. but i'm realistic, and know that is not what makes your game a good game.

    we should look at everything else around us, and today our world is just full of standards. so if you want to keep up with the world, you should support those standards. i don't mean everyone should follow them, because of course, if you think you should develop your own communications protocol and components, that's fine, and i'm sure it will be much more efficient, and even functional to your specific application. but if you're working on a general tool that can be used large scale on multiple industries, platforms and purposes, you just gotta keep up with the standards.
    i think it's completely nonsense to say "xml sucks for games because it is slow".
    come on. who cares? no one's going to load xml at each frame!it's going to be loaded at startup. it doesn't need to have 10000 lines. it could have just 100 lines and load even faster than your screen refreshes.
    that's not what is in cause. we are just talking about offering that support to whoever should find it useful, because it is, actually, the main standard for this kind of knowledge representation.

    it's the same with vst or midi. it doesn't need to be used by everyone. but there are many people creative enough to use it, and create great things with it. they are standards. whoever works with audio knows all about it. so why keep it out of the package? udk is a really great tool for shaders and visual effects. what about audio? let's face it, udk doesn't exactly offer much for audio design. does udk team consider it a second class art form? let's not be just computer geeks, or visual freaks. udk is about gaming, and gaming is about merging all those artistic and technological domains into a single experience. in the end, everyone knows that it's the experience that matters. not the graphics, nor the sound, or the loading time.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Blade[UG] View Post
      Just because it is USED in academic research, doesn't mean it is a very good tool for the job. The college I went to in 1994 still requires Cobol and/or RPG classes, and still use a VAX from 1980 for the majority of their programming classes. (yes, I realize that is not typical, but it does give you the mindset of the people who build these curriculums) The amount of CPU usage to parse relatively complex XML in a computer, or brainpower to parse it in your head, is probably a ton more than what is necessary for any gaming task.
      Although doesn't a fair deal of games use XML for localization and narrative/task lists?

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        #18
        I don't know if they do or not, but I'd bet that the Unreal Way of doing localization is both more efficient, and easier for humans to read. I can't really comment too much about the rest of that.

        Your point about mobiles is interesting, although I'm still not positive that having an entire XML processing library is particularly necessary. If it IS, however, you are more than welcome to integrate something using DLLBind. For one of my personal experiments, I had considered seeing about the feasabiliyt of doing some facebook stuff in UDK, but it's one of those things that will happen when I get a round tuit.

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          #19
          Yeah, but as far as I'm aware, Apple explicitly disallow dynamic DLL linking in their Terms of Service, unless I'm mistaken. Which means for something like UDK, we're entirely restricted by whats allowed in the scripting language. Which is why I'd like to see better support for this sort of stuff before it can be taken seriously as a competitive engine for mobile.

          As for Facebook Connect in UDK, I believe that you pretty much need an embedded web browser to be able to use it, which probably rules out doing anything with UDK anyways?

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            #20
            You can talk http to other servers with tcplink. (libhttp4 by elmuerte is based on it)

            I did that for doing a server-managed friendlist and it was fun.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Wormbo View Post
              ... MIDI is ancient ...
              (Sorry for this little offtop)

              That depends on how You understand MIDI. It is old, but in OpenGL kind of way. Meaning it has been updated a couple of times and is the still THE standard for digital instrument interface, among other things.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Mr Evil View Post
                So is C, but it continues to be used because it works.
                Some legacy codebases maintained and used today still use Fortran, but I wouldn't go recommending it to anyone

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                  #23
                  MIDI is still solid as a hardware interface but is limited for quality playback.

                  Tracker formats are extremely flexible, standardized, use custom sample-based instruments and have a low overhead. There's also creation and playback tools for all major platforms. Most decent music player software has tracker support.

                  Unity supports .MOD, .IT, .XM and S3M.
                  http://unity3d.com/support/documenta...20Modules.html

                  Unreal used to have support, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere for UDK. Epic have used top tracker-scene talent in the past for creating music. http://unreal.epicgames.com/Music.htm

                  This would be what you're looking for, save for creating a whole new format with all the tools that need to accompany it.

                  Also see: http://modarchive.org/

                  Examples below. Youtube reduces quality and of course massively increases the bandwith needed as opposed to straight playing the tracker files.

                  Catch that goblin by Skaven, 1995
                  0.4MB uncompressed
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft0OjRIdu2s
                  http://modarchive.org/index.php?requ...id&query=34654

                  Dead lock by Elwood, 90s
                  0.5MB uncompressed
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dBuAgsxF-k
                  http://modarchive.org/index.php?requ...id&query=35280

                  Ascent of the Cloud Eagle by Necros, 90s
                  0.8MB
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8OClzli9_s
                  http://modarchive.org/index.php?requ...id&query=34073

                  Seach for the lost riff by Necros & Basehead, 1995
                  0.5MB
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNInZ...eature=related
                  http://modarchive.org/index.php?requ...id&query=40737

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