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Is UDK a game engine at all?

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    #16
    UDK (and UE in general) is designed so that you access engine functionality via inheritance. This fundamentally means you have to extend existing classes to do anything. This is not wrong or right, just the way things are done in UDK.

    Because the lower-level classes hook in the game engine, you shouldn't and change them (indeed, some changes will break the game). However the lower-level stuff doesn't handle game logic, and the higher-level stuff can be ignored or in some cases removed, and replaced regardless with your own classes implementing your own game logic.

    So I guess it can feel like modding, but modding is a term describing an outcome, not a process. Modding is only modding because the outcome is an alteration to an existing game, not an independent game - and because UDK is for creating stand-alone games working with it is not modding regardless how the process feels.

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      #17
      Whether you're modding or using an engine, does it even matter at the end of the day? After all, your players will be playing your game. They won't care if it is a mod, or made with a "real" engine.

      I wish UDK charged like $100 USD or something.

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        #18
        It does.... And they'll care if they have to buy another game to play it, thus the part about it being a game engine and not a mod kit.

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          #19
          Basically, here's how it goes -- you can create any type of game you can possibly imagine, within the limitations of UnrealScript and external DLL Binding. You get a stripped down version of UT3 as an example to start with. IF you don't want to use it, throw it out! But, before you throw it out, you're going to need to at least create a little bit of content (namely a "Front End" map).

          However, for the vast majority of people, it's a lot easier to take an already constructed system, with a fully functioning world/game environment, and then start changing it to make what you want. Unless you already know the engine in and out, starting with the bare minimum (the Engine classes) is going to be a much greater effort than starting with something that's already ready.

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            #20
            A couple of major game engines have games already embedded into the engine when they give it to licensees. Valve does it for Source engine, they include Half-Life 2, Portal and Team Fortress 2 code in their engine licenses.

            I also believe Epic gives Gears of War 2 code to Unreal Licensees, I've seen a video on Youtube showing a custom map someone made for GoW2, he put enemies and characters exclusive to GoW2 into the map he made, along with using some UE3.25 exclusive features. He claimed to be a licensee when people posted comments asking how he got it. I can't verify if this video was truly GoW2 or not, but it has mysteriously disappeared from Youtube, so maybe it was and someone got angry at him.

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              #21
              You can rip GoW models relatively easily.

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                #22
                Yes it is a real game engine, if you think otherwise you fundamentally don't understand what the UDK is.

                - No one is forcing you to build off of UT* files, they're there as examples.

                - The same people that moan about UT files would moan even louder if UDK came with nothing. It's the most amazing paradox I've ever seen: on the one hand "wahhh you didn't create a game for me", on the other hand "omg there's a game in here it's not a real engine!". Be VERY glad they gave you an example game with a lot of fundamental things already coded for you, but always feel free to re-code it yourself.

                - There is no reason you have to create a UT style game, heck the point of Whizzle, which apparently was lost on many, was to show you that someone could easily create a game that didn't use some of the most basic UT components or even remotely behave like UT.

                If you haven't gotten the picture from some very advanced people posting here who have made some really cool things (not UT clones), then no amount of posting will convince. I strongly recommend trying out several of the indie engines out there, it was extremely useful for me to realize just how wonderful what Epic provides you really is just by comparison. Just gonna warn you upfront, it would take you a year to make what you could in a month here.

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                  #23
                  I think what throws people off with that is that a stripped down UT is the default "scene" (player character, hud, etc) every time you start it up. Where in other engines it would be set-up more as a demo you would manually load up.

                  Which is essentially what it is now if people took the time to realize that, but I can see how that might look confusing at first.

                  Perhaps a better way to go would be to have completely bare bones scene with absolutely no UT assets in the way...but there in the editor for use if you want them.

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                    #24
                    Ugh, I'm just new here and this iis the second one of these I've seen.

                    I wanna make a 3rd person Sonic like platformer... SURE I could rip out all the UT stuff and start from scratch... it'll just set me back about A DECADE....

                    OR I could use the 3rd person gameplay, switch out the characters, edit some behaviors in kismet... basically DONE.

                    And yess... does Wizzle look ANYTHING like UT?

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                      #25
                      I don't believe it's that difficult to start from scratch. Last project I worked with this is almost exactly what we did, and we had a solid game prototype in between two and three months.

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                        #26
                        True, but I'm like... super newbie to this so right now my game's just gonna be one BIG MOD.

                        But in the end it really won't matter so meh.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Dreamcube017 View Post
                          True, but I'm like... super newbie to this so right now my game's just gonna be one BIG MOD.

                          But in the end it really won't matter so meh.
                          But you will learn, young padawan, if you keep on going. And mods are hard to make too, Mare Nostrum (for red orchestra) took quite a bit of man hours

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                            #28
                            Thanks for the support. yeah, the 3D Buzz tutorials REALLY REALLY cleared some basic things up a lot.So at least I kind of know how the engine works now. I didn't watch the kismet tutorials yet either so I've still got some ways to go.

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                              #29
                              Search the forum for a guide on making an UT-stripped version of your UDK build.

                              You do not need to use the UT classes. Just extend the classes you create from UDKGame or even Engine for that matter.

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