Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is UDK a game engine at all?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Is UDK a game engine at all?

    Hi all,
    Currently I am buzy examining several engines to decide wich of them to use for my project. The topic title may appear strange, even provocative, but just listen what I have to say. This thought came to me today, when I was examining some tutorials on how to set up folders for a new project. As I learned to create a new project one has to edit config files, manualy create directories, create some script files etc. That is not a hard work, must say - the one thing that hit me was - we are not creating anything! We are just supposed to reuse UnrealTournament scripts, make our classes inherited from UT classes, use config files that were created for UT game and just somehow change them. Really there is no way (correct me, if I am wrong) to create a new game from zero - without burden of UT.
    Of course, thanks you guys for including assets from UT in UDK, but what if one does not need those assets, those scripts, those config files? Is there a way not to modify UT, but to create a new game at all? Is there a way to start project from zero, not UT?
    Honestly, one reason why I hate Torque 3D (except its buggy and slooooow advanced lighting) is that Torque is not a game engine - it is a terribly written game. When you use it, you feel like a mod maker - not a game programmer.
    What about UDK? Is it the same mod making tool (with possibility to create exe files), or is it real engine? Of course, I would be fool to expect source code, or such features from UDK, but is it at least a game engine?
    Could anybody tell difference (from programmer's view) between UT map editor and UDK? I mean, between mod making and programming a new game?
    If I am wrong and UDK is not a modding tool, could anybody point out at least some basic documentation explaining how to create a new game with UDK from zero - not using UT scripts, UT setting etc.?
    Thanks.

    #2
    Well at first it might look like you would use already written UT classes but consider this. You use unrealscript a by epic games exclusively made programming language for their engines and many things that you need to extend with your own codes exists already.

    You could also just delete all the classes from UT and rewrite them but the outcome would be nearly the same.
    I agree that it looks like this but isn't it with other engines like blitzbasic the same? You get a language and use predefined commands to achieve something new.
    This doesn't mean you just modify something you're just using it for a greater good or something.

    Also you get here many chances to create something on your own with easy-to-handle tools like kismet/matinee. These are all tools to make it easy for you but simply puttet it's still the engine which is giving the rules but this does every engine.

    You have also the possibility to use DLLbind if you really want it hardcore

    For me it looks like a game engine.

    Comment


      #3
      Oh ffs... My only request for Epic for the next build is that they do a quick search & replace for "UT" and put in "UDK" instead, so everything will be exactly the same but people will stop *****ing about it.

      [edit] I have to wonder if you guys really think it's any different at game studios that license the engine. What they get isn't any different from what we're getting minus the source code.

      Comment


        #4
        Its probably all the same...

        Comment


          #5
          Oh for Hell's sake... Not just another of these threads. Mercy!!!
          Is this on purpose?
          I counted 3 similar topics this week.

          Comment


            #6
            I think it almost has to be the same guy making multiple accounts...

            Yes, the UDK is a real game engine
            No, you cannot get rid of the UTGame directory or rename all of the UT*.ini files, it requires a recompile
            Yes, you can get rid of every single other shred of anything and everything related to Unreal Tournament
            Yes, this is the exact same system all the professional studios with licenses use

            All core functionality is in the UDK or engine classes and not in UT classes. Using or not using UT assets and scripts is purely up to you. You are more than welcome and the UDK is more than capable of letting you start from square one.

            Comment


              #7
              Its never gonna end...:[

              They even say, "this is the same engine used by top game companies and games" (best selling games) its in the download description

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Angel_Mapper View Post
                ...My only request for Epic for the next build is that they do a quick search & replace for "UT" and put in "UDK" instead...
                Fortunately they are already doing this; quite a lot of the UT* classes now contain very little code.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I don't know what similar topics are you people talking about. I've looked at least first two or three pages of this section before I post this topic and there was nothing similar.
                  Now, about difference between mod making and game programming, as it seems to me. Script language does not count in this particular case - the engine may have own scripting language, or use some other language - that is normal. The main difference between mod-making and new game programming, IMHO, is how free am I to modify assets and scripts structure, change rendering properties, create something new that can not be pre made or precalculated. In one word - it is freedom.
                  On the another hand, when you are making mod for existing game, you are forced to use game rules that particular game is built on (The main differenc is you can not sell you mods, of course but I am talking only from programmist's view). For example, in Tes/Fallout 3 series you can modify almost everything - add new models, new animations, new scripts, even change some rendering parameters, but this still is mod-making. Why? Because you can not change main rules of the game! In those games, you can change NPC behavior too - for example make them follow you, attack you, initiate dialogs etc. but this changes nothing.
                  When I start working with game engine, I am expecting, at least, not to have garbage - that is, some pre-made assets, scripts etc. I must have possibility to create and organize my assets as I wish in my own folders - and not in seventh folder of seventh folder(!).
                  UDK is not free or cheap engine - if you are considering selling your game, you have pay 25% of royalties. Of course, it is great to try it, play with it, but if one has serious aims he must know what he gets for money. As I said above, of course, I am not a fool to expect source code, but at least I must have ability to modify every single script line in the engine as well as change configuration settings depending on my preferences.
                  And again - I would like to ask - is there any documentation about how to do all above things, how to start a project from zero?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It depends on what type of game you're making? I'd begin by subclassing UTGame, that's where I always start.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The point is that you CAN modify every single script (besides the source code) by simply creating "extensions". It's exactly the same thing as tweaking a script itself. The base scripts are there to help you and give you an idea of the possible ways you can setup your game. Personally I wouldn't be able to understand unreal script without those references and I'm glad they're there.

                      Plus by tweaking a couple of .ini's you can have your own game directory.

                      I had the luck to work on several game engines for the last 7 years and believe me what UDK offers is the best I've seen from a free (to use) -professional- engine.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You do not need to use UTGame classes if you don't want to. If you look at UTGame, UTPlayerController, etc you will see that these classes derive from more general base engine classes. You can easily use the base engine classes (like GameInfo instead of UTGame) to build your game. UTGame is there to provide an example of how a game could be made. However, it is not a requirement to use them. In this respect UDK is exactly like Torque3D where both have a game implementation that you can use or extend in your own game. Additionally, you can choose to start from scratch without using the provided game example, however, your learning curve will be steeper.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hey guys, you seem to be under the impression that the UTGame folder is mandatory. That may not be the case. In your UDK installation is the folder "/Engine/Config" which contains .ini files with some path references with the string "%GAME%". I suspect that this references some variable UE3 uses to keep track of the game prefix (i.e, UT). I haven't bothered with it, but changing "%GAME%" to something else like "MYUDK" (and editing the Default*.ini files) could let you change the UTGame directory to something else.

                          If it annoys you that much, it's worth a shot, right? Let us know how it goes.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            UTGame is just there to make it easier to understand. You can start a completely new directory and not even touch UTGame at all.

                            Honestly though, it's a hell of a lot less work to just start with UTGame, than it is to start from scratch. Unless you're a Licensee, I really don't see the need to start fresh?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Another argument in favor of keeping the UT* stuff is that most serious UDK users began current projects as Unreal Tournament modifications (specifically, total conversions). It's not hard to imagine that Epic left the UT* prefix intact to ease modders into switching to UDK.

                              Don't worry, though: it appears that Epic is building up a UDKBase package of code, which contains some of the native functionality previously exclusive to the UTGame code. This means modders may soon be able to use non UT* class code without losing native functionality (weasel words, because I don't really know what Epic's up to).

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X