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    Content issues...

    I grabbed the UDK and I've been looking at the "Content Browser" and there appears to be less (or different) content in the UDK. Perhaps there is a way to bring the UT3 stuff over, but when I tried to do it I just got a bunch of errors that said "That package is already loaded". This blows because the one that is loaded up in the UDK doesn't have nearly the same amount of stuff that is in the UT3 UPK file of the same name.

    On the bright side the UDK has additional content that was in Gears and was not in UT3.

    Though, (totally going off on a tangent in my own thread) I think this brings to light a greater issue that I have with Epic. Those of you that make your own content and have been using the Unreal Engine for years are going to flame me for saying this, but I don't think that Epic has created a very simple system for adding, updating, finding, creating new packages/content.

    Perhaps this is because Epic doesn't care about my demographic (my demographic by the way is the guy that likes to make sweet levels for free and share them with other people). My demographic just wants a huge suite of content that has already been created (which they sort of have) and a place to go to find more free content (which they totally don't have).

    Look at LittleBigPlanet for example. Yes, I understand its a completely different type of game, but they have the right idea. It's super easy to create and share content.

    Right now, I'm working on this huge oriental-themed level and I can only find a few static meshes in the UT3 stuff. Considering how big the Unreal community is (much bigger than the LittleBigPlanet community) there should be gobbs and gobbs of oriental-themed content available.

    The traditional answer I get is "make some stuff in 3DS Max" or "just re-texture the assets that already come with UT3". And my traditional response is "I'm not an artist" and "that's lame".

    Every time I make posts about this topic it is typically in the hopes that some will say "Well, have you checked out" and then I go there and my mind is completely blown with how wrong I was. However, what is going to happen is everyone is going to say "deal with it".

    Dehron_Samiel you really should do a search! There are about 20-30 different posts with people asking the same thing.
    Content transfer between UT3 and UDK is not allowed simply because UDK is not a UT3 editor but a UE3 engine and editor made for stand alone games creation!


      Originally posted by ThePriest909 View Post
      Dehron_Samiel you really should do a search! There are about 20-30 different posts with people asking the same thing.
      Content transfer between UT3 and UDK is not allowed simply because UDK is not a UT3 editor but a UE3 engine and editor made for stand alone games creation!
      My apologies. I suppose if I spent more of my life trolling forums I might know the etiquette.

      By the way, any thoughts on the rest of my post?


        I'm sure that others have already suggested this, but I'll go ahead and do the same.
        If content is what you're missing, then get a 3d modeling app and search the net for tutorials. There are plenty of tutorials for just about anything.
        Five years back when I first started with game and mod developing I did the same thing. I figured how to use 3ds max in order to create my own stuff in 2 months because I really loved what I was doing.
        So if you really like this kind of stuff go ahead and work for it. It worths it.


          To be honest, you are in the minority.... you are an extraordinary individual, but you are in the minority.

          Most people, when they find out the process Epic has come up with to create custom assets, would sooner pull out their own hair than bother with it. It is NOT easy and it is NOT something that most people would want to bother with.

          I'm sure you're thinking, "well if they don't care enough to spend 2 months learning 3DS Max, then I don't care about them". That is actually a perfectly reasonable mindset... for you. However, for Epic, it is an absolutely horrible mindset to be in. People will and do leave the community when they realize the entirety of the content creation process. Again, at this point you are probably thinking, "it's not that much", but that's only because you have already spent the 2 months learning how to do it and as I said, you are an extraordinary individual.

          It is in Epic's best interest to alleviate the pains of content creation, or provide more content to their users (for UT3 and the UDK). The risk and cost is very low for them to do this, and the rewards for all involved would be great.

          Again, the "deal with it" mindset is hurting them and the community. If you are as passionate about it as you seem, you should join me in harassing Epic for more content.

          Now for some motivating battle-cries:

          FOR THE COMMUNITY!!!
          ALL FOR ONE!!!
          YES WE CAN!!!!


            Dehron you have to realise that Epic aren't doing this for fun, this is their job! They do it for a living. If they would have their personel making assets it would be reasonable to be for the next UT title for instance and not for 500 people who need free assets.
            They've already given you a million dollars engine to use! Think about it for while before complaining.
            In any case, if you 're not willing to learn how to do it yourself you could always buy. There are plenty of websites for that.


              The cost is definitely not low for them to provide free assets. In order to provide for UDK the amount of assets that are in UT3, you're talking about a burn rate of likely north of $100,000 a month for the amount of artists that projects like that take. For a free SDK release that is meant to provide game teams to release stand-alone projects using their own custom assets, this is simply not reasonable.

              That being said, if all you're looking to do is release levels using stock assets, then UT3 and Gears are the better places to do that. Creating mods and even full products for UT3 is a very similar process to that for UDK, and apart from some of the new editor features (particularly the new content browser and lightmass), it would be no different for you.



                I work in the games industry so I am quite aware of what is reasonable and unreasonable. I also fully understand the value of their engine and their editor. But I appreciate the effort to dumb this whole thing down for me.

                You must not have read my post. I am saying that it is in their best interest (as in their company's best interest) to support the community that they give these tools to. I am not suggesting that their entire art team stop working on whatever the next Unreal project is and start making me some free art. What I am suggesting is that they have at least one guy at a desk making art that everyone can use. Or they go buy a bunch of art, package it all up, and give it to the community for free.

                Art and artists are cheap. Having an artist, who most likely you are only paying $30,000 a year, create a bunch of free content for the community is low-risk, low-cost, and high-reward.

                If they were to do this, the community would be much larger and the content that came out of the community would be much better. All of which is good for their business.

                Get it?



                  Regarding your monetary estimates, you can read my last post.

                  I know I am in the UDK forums right now, but my rant regards all of Epic's products (including UT3). They have no business-plan to offer any content with their tools, which as I said damages them financially.


                    One artist would only be pumping out a few pieces of assets a month though. To get anything approaching a reasonable stream of content, you're talking maybe 5-10 artists, if not more. Even then, you're not going to approach the level of content present in retail games for quite a while. As it is, I don't know what area of the world you are in, but artists are certainly not paid as low as $30k a year unless you're talking about maybe recent graduates.

                    As a second point, they have no business plan to offer content because it is specifically forbidden to use any of the stock assets in commercial products. All commercial products done using the UDK must use custom assets. This is done as a very smart legal protection against people attempting to get Epic involved in any potential legal squabbles, so even if they did provide a stream of content for end users, it would guarantee that they would make absolutely no money from it.



                      I actually am located in the U.S. and pretty much all the artists I know get paid *****.

                      Secondly, like I said, I know we are in the UDK forums but the issue I have is with the entire company and all their products. Regarding the legal issue you speak of; I'm not really sure how that's an issue at all. They could very easily say that that doesn't apply to the art that they supply the community with. Done. Wow, that was a difficult legal issue to get around.

                      Also, you are assuming, even though I have clearly said otherwise, that I am requesting an amount of art equivalent to what a full game would require. I am not. If they had dedicated one (maybe two) artists to the creation of content when they started working on UT3, there would be a ridiculous amount of extra art available to the community.

                      Additionally, another option for them could be to outsource the actual art creation (which these days is also fairly cheap) and then just do the pipeline/packaging stuff themselves.

                      The things that I am saying are not unreasonable in the slightest. Especially considering how much money Epic makes with their engine. It's baffling to me that anyone is actually defending them. Do any of you really think that they would start hurting if they did the things that I am suggesting?


                        As if what UT3 or GoW offers isn't enough. Epic figured an entire game by them and you claim that they'aren't enough for you to use? What can I say. Well... It's just not reasonable for me. Like I said it would be easier for you to learn how to do it yourself and I stick to that opinion.


                          If you think I am alone in my frustrations, you are quite wrong. Epic could keep all those people in the community by simply spending a little bit of money to provide the ENTIRE community with more content.

                          Not unreasonable at all, because they are Epic, and they make an ungodly amount of money every year from UE3.


                            It's simple: if you don't like their products don't use them. But not many other AAA game developers are releasing their proprietary engine(s) for free complete with support via forums and monthly updates.

                            The fact you actually have to learn to model if you plan to develop games is a no-brainer. Any engine you plan to make games with is going to require it at some point. It's just a skill people who plan to make games pick up, like knowing how to create a crossover cable as a network administrator.

                            If you're interested in using art assets that you yourself didn't develop there are websites out there available for such purposes. And there are plenty of free programs out there to facilitate in making your own content.

                            But Epic Games is not contractually obligated to provide anything. They didn't make any promises or say what they intend to do in the long run. But they did just give the world one of the most powerful commercial game engines that, so far, is quite easy to use accompanied by the massive amount of support on these forums and a little effort on the user's part to actually learn. One would think that's a good start even if it didn't come with assets free for your use.


                              Originally posted by Dehron_Samiel View Post
                              If you think I am alone in my frustrations, you are quite wrong. Epic could keep all those people in the community by simply spending a little bit of money to provide the ENTIRE community with more content.

                              Not unreasonable at all, because they are Epic, and they make an ungodly amount of money every year from UE3.
                              Man, seriously.. You have to realise that that the editor coming with UT3 is made so that you can alter UT3 and its content only. That's it... The end.
                              That's what every company does with games that come with an editor. It's always an editor for a specific game only. Otherwise it wouldn't be UT3 by Epic but rather a community project.
                              If you want more stuff, like others said, that's your problem , deal with it. Noone is gon'a do the job for you for free.
                              Now, if your only joy in game development is to take a few already made by others assets and stick them together, then I'm sorry but you should drop modding and go get a set of Lego boxes.
                              That's how things work in this world. If you want something then work hard for it or fail.
                              Like I already said, appreciate what it has already been given to you.
                              The best of luck.