Still cant get multi-textured models to work (multiple UV maps)

[shuriken88]

For quite a while now I've been stuck in a bit of a rut when it comes to texturing my models. Basically I've reached the stage where I want/need to move on from just using 1 single UV map for my models. The models are simply getting too big to be covered with 1 UV map. I'm frequently finding myself pressed for space when it comes to adding islands into the UV map, and I need to incorporate more of them so I can get big models that are still very highly detailed, instead of all blurry, and basically **** looking.

Just last night I started to recreate one of my old drawings of a shootout in a nightclub. I've modelled out the pole-dancers podiums quite easily, but again, to achieve the affect I wanted, I would've needed to use 2 UV maps. One for the shiny & reflective pole, the other for the rest of the model (zebra print & deep purple sparkly plastic). Because of Max's refusal to do what its supposed to in terms of material ID's though, I've had to stick with 1 UV map, which makes the pole look like its made of plastic, or a non reflective metal. I also modelled out one of the mini-bars, going with the zebra print theme, but this model needs even MORE space for detail, because its much larger. This little project is supposed to go alongside the collection of futuristic buildings I've been modelling, but these buildings are HUGE. They make the tallest building in the US look like a bungalow, so using 1 UV map for any of these is COMPLETELY out of the question. The detail would be SO low that you wouldn't even be able to tell what each of the surfaces was. To get even a medium amount of detail on those buildings, I would need atleast 5 UV maps, at the very LEAST, but more likely 10 UV maps (each assigned to a different material ID).

The main problem that Max is giving me, is that it keeps messing up the "Mat ID's" every time I start making new ones. Say I had a cross made of a box with 4 of its faces extruded. If I highlighted each of these extruded boxes and tried to give them their own ID, things would instantly start going wrong. I'd get ID 1 sorted, but then when I go to create ID 2, it will either combine "ID-1" with it, for no reason, or just delete ID 1 entirely. Even worse, it seems once the material ID's have succesfully messed themselves up, they cant be cleared and you cant start again, so basically you've f*cked up your whole model just because of some stupidly unpredictable and temperemental way of handling different material ID's.

I've tried to follow tutorials, to the T, but Max just seems to have a mind of its own when it comes to handling multiple material ID's. Can anybody help me out here, I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks

[geodav]

ok we're talking about static meshes here, i must admit i haven't used an up to date max (just 2008 + 2010) so the problem might be on a new version.
but here's how i do it, build your mesh, create your materials, select your faces, set the material ID, apply the materials.
remember for static meshes you "Don't" need a multi material just apply basic materials

also don't forget even with 2 or more materials you second uv channel (light map) needs to have unique uv's

[shuriken88]

Thanks man, but dont you need to do any unwrapping? For all of my static meshes so far, I've unwrapped a UV map for all of them. I'm just really confused right now. For the mini bar, I would need to create UV's for the "BAR" banner, and the specific way the textures are supposed to be layed out. Its hard to explain so I'll put some pictures up.

Heres the ancient picture of that nightclub I'm trying to recreate (from an old comic I was working on years back lol):-

The right side of the image is missing for some reason, but you get the general idea
Heres the pole (I've modified the shape to try and make it look more interesting):-


And heres the mini-bar (still untextured due to the limitations of using only 1 UV map):-



For the mini-bar, I intended to seperate the exterior and interior into seperate UV's, so I could add more detail to each of them, and have hi-resolution textures, so you can actually read the text on the little notices, or the little graffiti tags. You can see all the little details in each texture. I dont want to see ANY blurring whatsoever. I want it to look CRISP, but with 1 UV map that would be impossible.

The reason I wanted to have more than one UV for the pole stage, was different though. I wanted to seperate out the pole so I could add its own texture to a cube map (giving it that chrome look, instead of just a shiny specular map lol...). I also wanted to add a little light to each of the faces of the upper ring, then assign them to an emissive channel so they actually give off light rather than just paint a white colour onto them.

I know this is all possible man, but as I said, I'm sending myself crazy with confusion, and things not acting the way I expect them...

[geodav]

i don't see a problem, what you might want to have a look at is the LOD settings for your textures when you import them, as they have different "mip" settings.
just with your uv's give more space to where you need to put the writing

[shuriken88]

Thanks, I'll look into the LOD's since I dont know anything about them yet. Is it possible to create 2 different UV maps then apply them to the same model (actually I KNOW its possible LOL, I just cant get it to work)? Like the mini-bar. I want to have a seperate UV map for the interior and the exterior, so I can really maximise the detail. For the pole though, I want to apply a cubemap-reflection to the chrome pole, and to finish of the texture, I wanted to add those little lights to the upper rim (just circles with black-metal borders), and have them as an emissive texture, so they actually give off light. Otherwise I'd have to add a light to each of the places where theres supposed to be a light, and I wanted to have around 6 pole dancers stages in the end, so the amount of lights might make my CPU get groggy.

Each section of the top purple ring, is supposed to have a light painted onto it in the end

[Odedge]

In UDK, to my knowledge, you can only use 1 UV map for the texture and 1 for light mapping. If you need more room for textures, you can have multiple materials for 1 mesh and use the same UV layout. When you import in to UDK it will use each material slot independently.

[dukejib]

yeh , u can use multi uv set in static meshes. Just don't forget to add lightmap uv and set the appropriate channel in static mesh editor.

[kaleden]

What version of 3ds Max are you using? In 3ds Max 2012 SP2, single objects support multiple map channels just fine. Are you following the procedure geodav mentioned or do you use a different workflow? Note that when you apply a UVW unwrap modifier, you can select the UV channel you're working on in the modifier toolbar, but you need to assign the UV channel using the edit poly (or some other similar) modifier.

If, for some reason, your version of Max is messed up, have you considered separating your static meshes? For example, the stripper pole/stage combo could be easily separated and reassembled in UDK. Another option would be to make better use of tiling on your object. If all else fails, you could also try blending texture maps based on vertex shading.

[shuriken88]

Well, the way I'm trying to do it, is based on a youtube tutorial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiGmbH8nl_A

. I try to do it how he say's, but it just doesn't work. BTW I'm using Max 2011. Yea I guess I could seperate the meshes, but I'd much rather keep these smaller ones intact if possible. I dont know how to improve the tiling. The zebra print sections in the pics are laid out as strips, which are then wrapped around to create the circle. I tried to make 2 equal edges meet at the seams, but it was fiddly as hell, and I just couldn't get it to look right. I've got no idea how to blend texture maps using vertex shading, that sounds incredibly complex LOL!

[CorvaenOboros]

greetings ,
this is definitely possible , there are no limitations that have been mentioned.
i think the main issue your having is the terminology that is being used, specifically UV Maps is used incorrectly,
avoid using this term, only use when talking about different UV Channels ( like lighting map UVs ).

Material ID i think is what you meant.
in the example mesh with the purple and zebra pattern they could use 2 Mat IDs and the same UV Channel.
applying a MultiSubObject Material to the mesh with the 2 mats. and set the faces to the corresponding mat ids.
there should be no issues with assigning mat id's , try this video tutorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVjy8x353jA

the objects UVs using 2 Mat IDs would look overlapping , so that each mat id is using the most UV space possible.
this is the reasoning behind making a Light Map UV channel , to layout again without any overlapping.
once you have the Mat IDs working can follow this tutorial to create the light map channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbdOpuKqGaQ

[shuriken88]

Thanks, I'll give it another shot after checking those videos out!

[JessieG]

Yeah this sounds like you just want more UV space and don't want to have everything for an object covered with one texture sheet. Rather than creating entire new UV sets, You can simply have one UV set with everything in the 1x1 for the lightmaps, and for textures, simply have them overlapping, filling as much space as needed or even out of the 1x1. Just make sure to have different materials added to those faces in your 3D app before you export to UDK.

For instance, say you have a wall with a window in it. You could make the wall UV's stretch OUT of the 1x1 space horizontally and create a tileable texture for it and apply that. Then scale up the window UVs to take up as much of the 1x1 space as you can and make a separate texture for that. Apply the seperate textures to each part before export and UDK will handle the rest, regardless of overlapping on a single UV layout.

[shuriken88]

Yeah this sounds like you just want more UV space and don't want to have everything for an object covered with one texture sheet. Rather than creating entire new UV sets, You can simply have one UV set with everything in the 1x1 for the lightmaps, and for textures, simply have them overlapping, filling as much space as needed or even out of the 1x1. Just make sure to have different materials added to those faces in your 3D app before you export to UDK.

For instance, say you have a wall with a window in it. You could make the wall UV's stretch OUT of the 1x1 space horizontally and create a tileable texture for it and apply that. Then scale up the window UVs to take up as much of the 1x1 space as you can and make a separate texture for that. Apply the seperate textures to each part before export and UDK will handle the rest, regardless of overlapping on a single UV layout.

Thanks for this man, but could you go into a bit more detail on how to do it? Thanks again!