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Back from UED 2.5, a few questions...

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    Back from UED 2.5, a few questions...

    I have returned from using Unreal Ed 2(.5) for several years, since the release of Unreal, had a break for about 1-2 years but still totally familar with the handling.

    However, there are a few questions
    What changed in UED3 or feels wrong:

    1. I know it was possible to select vertex without going to geometry mode in some way, UED3 wont let me, can I change that?

    2. Vertices, especially selected are very large, can I change that?

    3. Dragging objects/brushes continues dragging when releasing ctrl until mouse-button is released, can I surpress the need to release mouse-button?

    4. Easy applying material by clicking on it in content browser. No need to press apply material.
    Also easier loading/viewing/handling textures/materials please. I don't get how to work in this mess.

    Lot's of things changed and became uncomfortable or problematic when using subtractive (classic) mode:

    5. How can I make surfaces invisible? I.E. subtracting a box and turn its ceiling into a sky/invisible.
    Even if using the new technique of skydome meshes, I still need to make the walls invisible to see the box (includes lighting problem, see further).

    5b. Directional Light seem unworkable in subtractive mode, the result of a light build always ends up with black surfaces (This is probably due the world mass being impenetrable by light, I need invisible surfaces to let light shine trough, windows).

    5c. Extremely long light builds 5-7minutes for a very simple scene. Little bsp geometry surrounded by a large 32'000x20'480 space (to see the skydome properly sized, I needed to create a rather large box open space), this increases build time to 5-7minutes dramatically, how can I ensure a more fluid build?

    UED3 seems to increase light building time dramatically by having big shapes, even if its only a single polygon. UED2 toke a few seconds even for a huge surfaces/box.

    I'd prefer subtractive/classic mode under every circumstances, but wonder how to properly set some things up to be able working old-shool style.


    6. Where are the (advanced) preferences to likely set some of that stuff up?

    7. Double mouse-click to transport camera, possible?

    Thans a lot. I always loved UnrealEd, its the most powerfull editor ever created, without doubt, the biggest advantage was it's usage of subtractive level design!
    But the new design philosophy makes me not understand some things.

    #2
    Well the light build problems if your using lightmass the bounced light will just keep going on and on causing the build time to be very long until the light reaches the end of the grid in this case just make a lightmass importance volume to whatever size and the light won't go past those bounds.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by pulse0o0 View Post
      Well the light build problems if your using lightmass the bounced light will just keep going on and on causing the build time to be very long until the light reaches the end of the grid in this case just make a lightmass importance volume to whatever size and the light won't go past those bounds.
      I did put a Lightmass Importance Volume arround my little bsp geometry it reduced build-time from several minutes to few seconds,
      but when I extended geometry overlapping the Lightmass Importance Volume, the build time was taking very long again.

      Do I always need to expand the volume to just enclose all geometry?

      Is the Lightmass Importance Volume not just to pay more attention to whats inside it? So why is geometry laying outside the volume taking that long to build? shouldn't it just be less detailed?

      Maybe this screenshot better explains the scenario


      Besides A finished build is still turning out all black.

      Comment


        #4
        If you're using subtractive then zoom out all the way, grab the large additive brush around the edge of the grid, and reduce it down to the size of your map. Although looking at the picture above, you'd be better off using additive mode... so just delete the large additive cube. There is no true subtractive mode in UE3, it's all additive, subtractive is faked by placing a large BSP additive brush around the whole grid area.

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          #5
          I agree you should just make the lightmass volume slightly larger than your map so that it leaves room for expansion and it is better to use additive and the volume i'v noticed the light still "appears" outside the volume but when walked into the player is completely covered in shadow even if the environment has light.

          Comment


            #6
            so why is there an additive mode at all?

            what exactly are the requirements for directional light coming trough?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by BuddhaMaster View Post
              so why is there an additive mode at all?

              what exactly must be done for directional light coming trough?
              More like, "why is there a subtractive mode at all?". Use additive, it just works better.

              Comment


                #8
                Yah no offense, but you're approaching level design the old way. About half of your questions or more are based on an outdated work flow that the current engine isn't really designed for. Rather than try to make UEd do something it's not designed to do anymore, I'd strongly suggest learning the modern workflow.

                The current engine is optimized to use meshes, not BSP, and BSP is not very efficient except for the simplest of simple shapes (e.g., a simple BSP cube for a floor). Trying to approach levels like you were making them in ut99/ut2k3 is the wrong way to go about it.

                I'd seriously recommend taking an indepth walk around Epic's provided maps to give you a good sense of the kind of level design UE3 was intended for. Is there still some BSP? Yes, it still has good uses, you'll notice that Epic still regularly uses them for simple surfaces like floors, ceiling, flat walls. Everything else is mesh, mesh, mesh. As long as you try to do it "oldschool" you'll be frustrated and frankly very limited, the editor is meant for a very different workflow.

                P.S. to really reduce light build times, use DominantLightMoveable, you can always switch out the light if you want a non-dynamic light later on.

                Comment


                  #9
                  what exactly are the requirements for directional light coming trough?
                  Work in additive, turn off "Cast Shadows" on your skydome.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    in regards to the "very long build times for a simple scene", id suspect thats a hardware issue rather than software. since im running a P4 3.2 ghz proc, overclocked to 4.2ghz, 4gig ram and a 256mb gfx card and i get maybe 15 mins build time for a simple level. honestly id say invest in a better proc

                    Comment


                      #11
                      15 min for a simple level?? How big is that level exactly because i only have a 2.1 GHz proc and it takes me 2 mins to build a map that is almost have the size of the grid.:/ In any case some problems with light building would be the sky dome as stated above turn off all shadows dynamic and static should reduce the light building by 1-3 mins depending on how long it takes already is what i'v noticed always use a lightmass volume and if you have the time make it fit almost perfectly around your map and always use additive unless your doing an inside map which subtractive is actually very good for and if all else fails hit your computer it makes it run faster (jk) but anyway this is about all the advice i can give you.

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