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  1. #1
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    Default Concerns with Judgment.

    This thread is for gamers to voice their concerns over Judgment. I have a lot to say about EPIC, not much of it good, but i'll focus on my concerns and look forward to you voicing yours as well. Many of my concerns are based off of FFA gameplay, but valid since it is all I have to go on. FIRST is the changing of controls. WHY?? It was fine the way it was. Now I have to hold LB and press B while keeping my thumbs on the control sticks just to frag tag somebody. How is this streamlined at all? Pressing Y to switch between guns and holding Y to switch to my pistol is going to cause a lot of mistakes, especially with casual gamers. The TAC COM which was broke in Gears 3, makes another star appearance as down on the d-pad. Not awkward to hold while keeping my thumbs on the control sticks at all (SARCASM). SECOND is the gameplay itself. Jumping from "two stories" is one thing, but being able to chainsaw and shoot while doing it? Please, EPIC stop ruining this game. I also saw one person with 7 boomshot rounds in their gun. You need to cap that to like 4 max. I understand how they acquired so many, but put boundaries on some things. The gnasher as a pick-up weapon!!?? Its your most popular weapon and it seems like all you want to do it be rid of it. Between the updates to nerf it and the new guns to silence it what else am I to believe. I hope this is just for FFA. A health regen pick-up now too? Absurd. You already regen health when you aren't taking damage you don't need health packs too. No stopping power now, and no active reload bonus? LMAO. Not all of the new changes are bad IMO. The one button grenade throw, sticky nades when direct hit, and always present crosshair are examples of such. As well as the reduction of such overpowering features: grenade damage reduced, missed retro stab damage reduced, spawn protection reduced all welcomed by me. I also like the new breechshot power weapon. I also dig the maps i've seen so far, although i'm hearing they are FFA specific (not sure about this). It worries me though that all the focus is on new game modes and not making the existing features reliable. (Mantle kick,ever annoying laggy kill trade,sponging characters,inconsistent damage game to game basis.) I just don't see Judgment being worth my time or money at this point.

  2. #2
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    You would get farther if your post was constructive

    As it is, this is merely flame bait.
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  3. #3
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    It was more of a stress relief post. Since I know EPIC only cares about money and the gamers who directly affect their bottom line, this won't get a second look. As for constructive what would you propose I do/change?

  4. #4
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    I'm not chomping at the bit for Judgement either, but come on man, can you at least write decently?

    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    It was more of a stress relief post. Since I know EPIC only cares about money and the gamers who directly affect their bottom line, this won't get a second look. As for constructive what would you propose I do/change?
    Nevermind, just...nevermind.
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    Write decently? What was undecent about it?

  6. #6
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    I dont think Judgment will be all that good compared to the classics(yes, that includes gears 3 now) because of the changes we're seeing, not to mention the fact that Cliffy B and Rod are gone, but you never know. Maybe this will be the best of the 4/sarcasm.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    It was more of a stress relief post. Since I know EPIC only cares about money and the gamers who directly affect their bottom line, this won't get a second look. As for constructive what would you propose I do/change?
    Actually, we care about everyone. Even folks that makes comments like this.
    Will Kinsler, Community Manager

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    Quote Originally Posted by raczilla View Post
    Actually, we care about everyone. Even folks that makes comments like this.
    Don't lie Rac, I know you just want my Benjamins. TAO told me so
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuronishen View Post
    Don't lie Rac, I know you just want my Benjamins. TAO told me so
    No I didn't. I said Will wants cookies and to torment me.
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  10. #10
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    Well Raczilla I appreciate you stopping by and trying to reassure me that EPIC cares, but actions speak louder than words. I've spent so much money only to be disappointed time and time again. Sometimes not at first, but eventually one way or another with all of the title updates. Maybe you can answer a multi-part question for me. Why does EPIC continue to make such drastic changes to the formula that made this game popular in the first place? Knowing that the millions (I lack a precise number) of people who bought it don't want to play it anymore? Ranked warzone comes to mind. How many people per week/month do you see playing that? Its not gears of war anymore, no matter what the title of the game is.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAO Devil View Post
    No I didn't. I said Will wants cookies and to torment me.
    I will gladly accept payment in the form of your torment.
    Will Kinsler, Community Manager

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Well Raczilla I appreciate you stopping by and trying to reassure me that EPIC cares, but actions speak louder than words. I've spent so much money only to be disappointed time and time again. Sometimes not at first, but eventually one way or another with all of the title updates. Maybe you can answer a multi-part question for me. Why does EPIC continue to make such drastic changes to the formula that made this game popular in the first place? Knowing that the millions (I lack a precise number) of people who bought it don't want to play it anymore? Ranked warzone comes to mind. How many people per week/month do you see playing that? Its not gears of war anymore, no matter what the title of the game is.
    Gears 3 has the same number of unique daily players that both gears 1 and 2 had a year after launch.

    About 70-80% of the people who bought the game got it for the Story, not the Multiplayer.

    Also, the Gears 1 multiplayer was a late add-on that was an accidental success. Not how Epic envisioned it. They made the game they wanted. It's up to you as a consumer if you want to buy or play that game. They did not disappoint you. You are disappointed because you bought a game you did not enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by raczilla View Post
    I will gladly accept payment in the form of your torment.
    See? I knew it.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Well Raczilla I appreciate you stopping by and trying to reassure me that EPIC cares, but actions speak louder than words. I've spent so much money only to be disappointed time and time again. Sometimes not at first, but eventually one way or another with all of the title updates. Maybe you can answer a multi-part question for me. Why does EPIC continue to make such drastic changes to the formula that made this game popular in the first place? Knowing that the millions (I lack a precise number) of people who bought it don't want to play it anymore? Ranked warzone comes to mind. How many people per week/month do you see playing that? Its not gears of war anymore, no matter what the title of the game is.
    I guess the short answer with respect to Judgment, is that it makes for an even better experience. Some of the things you mentioned in your initial post such as grenade changes and switching weapons on Y have received a lot of positive comments from those who have played Judgment Comic-Con, PAX, etc.

    I'm confident that when you see some of these things in action, you'll find that they make sense and enhance your experience with Gears of War. But I also wouldn't ask you to take my word for it. Talk to someone who has played and see what they think. Part of the reason we've had the game playable at so many events is that we also agree the proof is in the pudding and want people to see for themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raczilla View Post
    Part of the reason we've had the game playable at so many events is that we also agree the proof is in the pudding and want people to see for themselves.
    So about that beta...

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    Quote Originally Posted by raczilla View Post
    I guess the short answer with respect to Judgment, is that it makes for an even better experience. Some of the things you mentioned in your initial post such as grenade changes and switching weapons on Y have received a lot of positive comments from those who have played Judgment Comic-Con, PAX, etc.

    I'm confident that when you see some of these things in action, you'll find that they make sense and enhance your experience with Gears of War. But I also wouldn't ask you to take my word for it. Talk to someone who has played and see what they think. Part of the reason we've had the game playable at so many events is that we also agree the proof is in the pudding and want people to see for themselves.
    Can you give us any information about the DBNO in Judegment?
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    Quote Originally Posted by INSANE RUMBLER View Post
    Can you give us any information about the DBNO in Judegment?
    Not present in OverRun for COG or in FFA. Other than that, we know nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raczilla View Post
    I guess the short answer with respect to Judgment, is that it makes for an even better experience. Some of the things you mentioned in your initial post such as grenade changes and switching weapons on Y have received a lot of positive comments from those who have played Judgment Comic-Con, PAX, etc.

    I'm confident that when you see some of these things in action, you'll find that they make sense and enhance your experience with Gears of War. But I also wouldn't ask you to take my word for it. Talk to someone who has played and see what they think. Part of the reason we've had the game playable at so many events is that we also agree the proof is in the pudding and want people to see for themselves.
    mmmm...... Pudding......


    Anyways..Since we havent played it yet, we cant say whether change is good or bad. So, for now, we have to accept change and once we experience it, then we can complain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coleyman View Post
    Not present in OverRun for COG or in FFA. Other than that, we know nothing.
    Still not quite ready to talk about other MP modes so stay tuned.
    Will Kinsler, Community Manager

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    Quote Originally Posted by FonsoQ View Post
    mmmm...... Pudding......

    Since we havent played it yet, we cant say whether change is good or bad. So, for now, we have to accept change and once we experience it, then we can complain.
    If you don't like it I will probably blame TAO Devil. But I think you'll like it.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAO Devil View Post
    Gears 3 has the same number of unique daily players that both gears 1 and 2 had a year after launch.
    Not doubting you but do you have any source on this I can look at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by raczilla View Post
    If you don't like it I will probably blame TAO Devil. But I think you'll like it.
    I have faith that judgment will be different, but different in a good way..
    Just want to say thanks to this awesome community which helped raise nearly ú700 (over $1000) for The Cystic Fibrosis trust of which I am a sufferer of the disease myself. Thank you so much guys and gals!

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    Quote Originally Posted by raczilla View Post
    If you don't like it I will probably blame TAO Devil. But I think you'll like it.
    Either way, I will still love the game.....
    Gears 3-------lvl \\*// -------- 80/82... Gears J:-----lvl 308-----70/70
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    i like no stopping power or active damage. I don't like jumping off cover or buildings. I don't like the retro. I don't like how they're debating taking dbno out. I don't like that they nerfed the gnasher but that rifles, i anticipate, will run the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raczilla View Post
    If you don't like it I will probably blame TAO Devil. But I think you'll like it.

    What do you guys think the greatest improvement to the game compared to gears 3?
    Just want to say thanks to this awesome community which helped raise nearly ú700 (over $1000) for The Cystic Fibrosis trust of which I am a sufferer of the disease myself. Thank you so much guys and gals!

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  25. #25
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    Not saying I don't believe you, but do you have proof of this I could look at? As for me being disappointed, I wasn't disappointed because I bought a game I did not enjoy. I was disappointed because I DID enjoy it and then every few months it was changed into a different playing game time and time again. As was the story for both Gears 2 and 3. Maybe Gears:J will work in the opposite way, heres to hoping.

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    I agree with not haven't played it we can't exactly say whether change is good or bad, however, I know what I like. As for accepting change until we experience it, at that point its too late to complain about it. That's why they keep having so many title updates after release. I guess in a way I commend them for acknowledging, but also condemn them for crumbling to casual gamers of the series.

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    That's just it though Rac. Those gamers, if not press, are casual and do not approach gears the same way I do. When I watch these videos I also criticize player skill, that's what i'm basing "casual gamers" off of btw. I have seen these new features in action and these are my concerns. I don't think they make sense or else I wouldn't have posted about it. Even with a public beta like with Gears 3 (which was fine in the beta phase, sans minor annoyances), it seems like casual gamers who do only want this game for campaign experience are dictating how the multiplayer experience will be carried out.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAO Devil View Post
    You would get farther if your post was constructive

    As it is, this is merely flame bait.
    'Further'
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    Ironic how I'm having Deja Vu seeing this type of thread, while the OP's name is Deja Vu

    @_@
    USAF

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by raczilla View Post
    If you don't like it I will probably blame TAO Devil. But I think you'll like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    Not saying I don't believe you, but do you have proof of this I could look at? As for me being disappointed, I wasn't disappointed because I bought a game I did not enjoy. I was disappointed because I DID enjoy it and then every few months it was changed into a different playing game time and time again. As was the story for both Gears 2 and 3. Maybe Gears:J will work in the opposite way, heres to hoping.
    Major Nelsons XBL stats. Also the game was changed very little other than slight weapon tweaks.
    Quote Originally Posted by the rattle5nake View Post
    'Further'
    Oops
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    Having you pop in here, Rac, does make me feel better that you are aware of some of the fears we have, fears of the unknown! Thanks for stopping by, please continue to do so even if you don't have any new reveals, its just reassuring.

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    I don't have any of these fears. I am perceptive enough to see that the game is currently a work in progress, so I don't become hysterical when I see new things. If I didn't like a new change I would come up with a constructive suggestion and make it.

    Aside from still needing to refine the mantle kick and fixing certain firing delays the game looks excellent to me.

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    It must feel different then, since all of the good tryhards are gone from Gears 3 while Gears 2 was still very competitive at this time after release. Slight weapon tweaks is an understatement IMO and its a shooter, the game is based on the guns and how they work. This used to be a tactical cover based shooter. Now tactics play VERY little part. Its all about using over-powered guns and skill is rarely a factor in being "good" at it. Say what you will, but us multiplayer tryhards are fed up with being second to casual campaign gamers. Why make multiplayer gametypes for campaign players? Why take a casual gamers perspective in consideration when they won't be playing it two months after release? However, diehard multiplayer fans will be. I'm not saying their input is invaluable. I'm saying it has its place and its not in competitive multiplayer. In the interest of fairness i'm fine with implementing tools for the lesser skilled to help them compete and have fun also. Its just going too far now and its overwhelmingly biased in their favor. The game IMO has lost its allure and its no longer competitive.

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    While I understand this is not final product, there is only so much time to work with before these features become permanent installments. Even months before release some things are set in stone because of time and monetary obligations. My constructive suggestion is to fix the current model game you have and to stop adding unnecessary features that are only going to cause more issues with the game and require more post release "fixes", that based off of the track record, only seem to create more flaws. These games always look good on LAN. Once the game is released to the public though, there's always flaws. Its unavoidable and understandably accepted. I have to ask though, why not fix as many problems as possible instead of just hoping for the best? Who knows maybe i'm wrong and this game will be perfect, but i've heard false promises from EPIC before and i'm skeptical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DejaVu View Post
    It was more of a stress relief post. Since I know EPIC only cares about money and the gamers who directly affect their bottom line, this won't get a second look.
    I read the entire thread, but I had to go back to comment on this.

    People like you need to realize that when you say something like this, it is one of the most offensive and rude things you as a person can say to a developer. Developers aren't out to get your money, they are out to create something that they enjoy, and hope that you will enjoy too. Developers are passionate--and I emphasize passionate--about their games. They don't spend 2-3 years creating, developing, and finalizing games just to say, "The whole time we were creating this, we just wanted your money."

    That being said, the devs may not even care that you said these things, but when you refer to Epic wanting money, you're blaming the developers for wanting your money, when they don't set the prices--heck, most of them would probably just be happy to be a big part of the team, the paycheck is just a contract they signed x amount of time ago. Watch what you say, because the only people who want your money are the people that handle sales and marketing, not the developers.
    Last edited by Terra D Serph; 10-31-2012 at 12:40 AM.
    Imagine if OverRun was placed as a PC standalone game.
    Also, Thrashball should be a professional E-sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terra D Serph View Post
    I read the entire thread, but I had to go back to comment on this.

    People like you need to realize that when you say something like this, it is one of the most offensive and rude things you as a person can say to a developer. Developers aren't out to get your money, they are out to create something that they enjoy, and hope that you will enjoy too. Developers are passionate--and I emphasize passionate--about their games. They don't spend 2-3 years creating, developing, and finalizing games just to say, "The whole time we were creating this, we just wanted your money."

    That being said, the devs may not even care that you said these things, but when you refer to EPIC wanting money, you're blaming the developers for wanting your money, when they don't set the prices--heck, most of them would probably just be happy to be a big part of the team, the paycheck is just a contract they signed x amount of time ago. Watch what you say, because the only people who want your money are the people that handle sales and marketing, not the developers.
    This. ^ (10char)
    Quote Originally Posted by TAO Devil View Post
    Then you must force solo players to play only FFA because otherwise they'll drag down the teams that are using communication. Why not force people to have to play Overrun to increase those numbers? I know, lets force everyone to only be able to play with Gnashers because thats the majority, so nobody should be at a disadvantage. Screw people's free will. That's an awesome idea dude. Way behind you on that.

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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terra D Serph View Post
    I read the entire thread, but I had to go back to comment on this.

    People like you need to realize that when you say something like this, it is one of the most offensive and rude things you as a person can say to a developer. Developers aren't out to get your money, they are out to create something that they enjoy, and hope that you will enjoy too. Developers are passionate--and I emphasize passionate--about their games. They don't spend 2-3 years creating, developing, and finalizing games just to say, "The whole time we were creating this, we just wanted your money."

    That being said, the devs may not even care that you said these things, but when you refer to Epic wanting money, you're blaming the developers for wanting your money, when they don't set the prices--heck, most of them would probably just be happy to be a big part of the team, the paycheck is just a contract they signed x amount of time ago. Watch what you say, because the only people who want your money are the people that handle sales and marketing, not the developers.
    it couldn't have offended them that much seeing how they commented on it
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr shWo View Post
    it couldn't have offended them that much seeing how they commented on it
    Rac is a moderator, not a developer (as far as I know; if you are Rac, you have quite the patience ). Major difference, though I would venture a guess to say that the moderators are probably just as passionate about the games as the developers are.
    Imagine if OverRun was placed as a PC standalone game.
    Also, Thrashball should be a professional E-sport.

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    I agree with the OP, Gears 1-2 were awesome, so because of that seeing Gears 3, I was excited, after a year I say, Gears 3 is good, bit not awesome. If Gears 2 had dedicated servers, I'd play that instead of Gears 3 right now. Seeing these changes in Judgment make me feel like it is a Gears 3/CoD hybrid, and that's something I don't want to experience, since I don't like games lik CoD, BF, MoH. I'd really appreciate a beta for Judgment so I can tell if the changes are good or not. Because of the story and the Gears atmosphere I'll probably borrow/rent it for the campaign, but as of now the multiplayer doesn't look appealing to me.
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