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  1. #1
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    Default Lieutenant Baird

    I realize retcons are a thing for any series, but is there any precedence for Baird being an Lt.? I mean he complains that Marcus gets promoted in Gears 1 and not him, and no one ever mentions him ever being a Lieutenant.
    K/D ratio means nothing in Gears 3, stop bragging about it. Also, if you have a 4.0 K/D you probably just bot-farmed in private matches. That's the truth.

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    Baird has always been given the opportunity to receive a promotion or higher rank and has held such ranks in the past. Its just that he is also demoted a lot for his bad attitude and less-than-cheerful examples of regulations/following orders.

    Epic also most likely made him an Lt. because they didn't want to give him his old Gears 1/2 Corporal status, but at the same time didn't want another Sgt. leading their main squad. Lt. is a refresher and it differentiates him from Marcus.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKORGE View Post
    Baird has always been given the opportunity to receive a promotion or higher rank and has held such ranks in the past. Its just that he is also demoted a lot for his bad attitude and less-than-cheerful examples of regulations/following orders.

    Epic also most likely made him an Lt. because they didn't want to give him his old Gears 1/2 Corporal status, but at the same time didn't want another Sgt. leading their main squad. Lt. is a refresher and it differentiates him from Marcus.
    Yeah, makes sense.

    My one issue with it, which tends to be a problem with prequels done after the main story, is the characters never talking about past exploits through the main 3 games. You never hear Cole quip about his former Lt. status, or the whole court martial/theft of government property thing, which you think they might mention.
    K/D ratio means nothing in Gears 3, stop bragging about it. Also, if you have a 4.0 K/D you probably just bot-farmed in private matches. That's the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImperialGuard39 View Post
    Yeah, makes sense.

    My one issue with it, which tends to be a problem with prequels done after the main story, is the characters never talking about past exploits through the main 3 games. You never hear Cole quip about his former Lt. status, or the whole court martial/theft of government property thing, which you think they might mention.
    The honest, brutal truth about a franchise video game series is that not everything is written beforehand. Everything fleshed out through the books, games, comics and other forms of media all build up one big bible. But the series transforms and evolves as you go, so adding things that may have been somewhat foggy can be realized through a retcon. Rectons are an unfortunate side effect of forming stories in a video game, yet they are extremely prevalent in just about every form of story.

    Evolution requires facts being brought to life that may not have been exactly what was said from a time before. Ask anyone who's created a story if they kept their initial draft or even didn't go back and change a whole scene or a group of them when writing a book. Games are similar, but they're constantly being released to the public to make money for the developers and due to the fact that they've always been 'less respected' for their actual stories, its easier to retcon things than it would be to recton a book (which had been done in the past).

    Unfortunate truth, but I, for one, am all for evolution, as long as things aren't too insane. That's just how things work and Judgement, here, doesn't seem all that crazy to me.

  5. #5
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    Not only is Baird being an Lt silly but think about other things.

    A) MK2 Lancer hadn't been invented.

    B) Marcus and Dom encountered the Kantus for the first time in gears 2, did baird and the rest of the CoG neglect to mention their existence?

    C) Multiple references to Marcus' crimes but no mention of Coles and Baird's which seem very serious

    I think Epic keep betraying the story and i really dislike that, but one has to see it from a gameplay point of view i suppose. I, however am not amused by all this. Would have been better with 4 new characters, we all know Sofia and Garron will probably die.

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    Ever since Gears 1 came out, it's been mentioned that Baird has always been getting demoted for his attitude. From what it sounds like, this was the big one. (Baird's attitude was still pretty much the same back when he first met Cole)

    Declassified stuff will take care of most of the plotholes such as newer enemies like Kantus and lambent showing up because it makes sense that they could've been seen by very few beforehand.

    The only thing that I can't make sense of for being there is the Lancer. 15 years before Gears 1, it wasn't invented. The whole classified thing doesn't work either because we already know exactly how it was made. Adam Fenix made it by request after Marcus's squad ran into some locust and Tai pulled out a chainsaw. Seriously doubt anyone else came up with the same idea before that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richtophen View Post
    Ever since Gears 1 came out, it's been mentioned that Baird has always been getting demoted for his attitude. From what it sounds like, this was the big one. (Baird's attitude was still pretty much the same back when he first met Cole)

    Declassified stuff will take care of most of the plotholes such as newer enemies like Kantus and lambent showing up because it makes sense that they could've been seen by very few beforehand.

    The only thing that I can't make sense of for being there is the Lancer. 15 years before Gears 1, it wasn't invented. The whole classified thing doesn't work either because we already know exactly how it was made. Adam Fenix made it by request after Marcus's squad ran into some locust and Tai pulled out a chainsaw. Seriously doubt anyone else came up with the same idea before that.
    The Lancer Mk2 was created within the first year of the Locust-Human War. There's no specified time, I believe, but I don't think it was either created or even near mass produced 'a few weeks after E-day' where Judgement seems to take place. That's the only thing I can't reconcile, either.

  8. #8
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    IIRC, the books mention that Cole was one of the first people to receive a Chainsaw Lancer, and that was something like 8 years after E-Day.

    The idea for the Chainsaw Bayonet didn't even come about until shortly before the Hammer of Dawn strike, when Tai took a reciprocating saw to a locust after his normal bayonet broke. Marcus mentioned it to father, which eventually resulted in the newer model.

    The books also infer that Baird was fresh out of bootcamp about a month after E-day, which makes me wonder how he would make Lieutenant so quickly.

  9. #9

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    For Baird being a Lieutenant so quickly, war can bring about very quick promotions. If you look back at history, men were being promoted to the rank of General (mostly Brigadier and Major Generals) during the Civil War, because key figures could be taken out rather quickly. So you need replacements, and when you run out, you need to go lower. Hence why Baird may be in that particular situation. Look at Hoffman, he was the Chief of Staff to Hoffman during the later years, there WAS nobody else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Towel View Post
    Not only is Baird being an Lt silly but think about other things.

    A) MK2 Lancer hadn't been invented.

    B) Marcus and Dom encountered the Kantus for the first time in gears 2, did baird and the rest of the CoG neglect to mention their existence?

    C) Multiple references to Marcus' crimes but no mention of Coles and Baird's which seem very serious

    I think Epic keep betraying the story and i really dislike that, but one has to see it from a gameplay point of view i suppose. I, however am not amused by all this. Would have been better with 4 new characters, we all know Sofia and Garron will probably die.
    I just don't think we should assume anything yet. For all we know the Colonel interrogating Kilo could end up dead before the end, thus nobody to really disagree with them (He does seem like he could have a bit of a stick up his ass regulations-wise, whereas Hoffman might let whatever Kilo did slide if it saved the day), so it could just be covered up or dropped.
    Last edited by rebelboy; 06-06-2012 at 06:32 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Towel View Post
    Not only is Baird being an Lt silly but think about other things.

    A) MK2 Lancer hadn't been invented.

    B) Marcus and Dom encountered the Kantus for the first time in gears 2, did baird and the rest of the CoG neglect to mention their existence?

    C) Multiple references to Marcus' crimes but no mention of Coles and Baird's which seem very serious

    I think Epic keep betraying the story and i really dislike that, but one has to see it from a gameplay point of view i suppose. I, however am not amused by all this. Would have been better with 4 new characters, we all know Sofia and Garron will probably die.
    A) yeah it has, the MK2 Lancer was one yr AE

    B) For all we know this could be after Marcus was inprisoned,and then the Kantus could have went back into the Hollow to train the worms. (Just an idea.)

    C) In the books it was mentioned Damon recived many demotions, and would not get more promotions... this is whats being showed in Judgement.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by xFOAxREAPER View Post
    A) yeah it has, the MK2 Lancer was one yr AE

    B) For all we know this could be after Marcus was inprisoned,and then the Kantus could have went back into the Hollow to train the worms. (Just an idea.)

    C) In the books it was mentioned Damon recived many demotions, and would not get more promotions... this is whats being showed in Judgement.
    One of the videos stated Judgement occurs a few weeks after E-day, actually. Still, they might change that for the game itself.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undead Scottsman View Post
    IIRC, the books mention that Cole was one of the first people to receive a Chainsaw Lancer, and that was something like 8 years after E-Day.

    The idea for the Chainsaw Bayonet didn't even come about until shortly before the Hammer of Dawn strike, when Tai took a reciprocating saw to a locust after his normal bayonet broke. Marcus mentioned it to father, which eventually resulted in the newer model.

    The books also infer that Baird was fresh out of bootcamp about a month after E-day, which makes me wonder how he would make Lieutenant so quickly.
    I always though the MKII was around then as well. Gears Wikia disagrees with my memory though. It says it was in development in 1 AE.

    The Baird thing is hard to fathom and we must get to see Cole's first days as a COG I presume. As for Kantus, we don't know they are in campaign yet do we?

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    The Kantus being around at this time is the one I'm iffy about. I guess it's because I like Skorge's theory of the Kantus not really being combatants, but healers that were forced to join the fight after the lightmass bombing. :/

  15. #15
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    I find it odd that Baird, Cole, and Dom retained the same low rank after 15 years. I don't know much about the military but I think you would rise up in rank a little bit after a decade and a half!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougieInstructor View Post
    I find it odd that Baird, Cole, and Dom retained the same low rank after 15 years. I don't know much about the military but I think you would rise up in rank a little bit after a decade and a half!
    This was discussed before in a previous thread but I'll bring up the point again. Anyway, in The Locust Human War, the COG's military isn't much of a military. It's more of a semi-large defense force if you will, because of how low in numbers humanity is and all that other obvious stuff.

    Because the "military" is so small, there isn't a need for a grand or traditional structure like we see in real life or have seen in The Pendulum Wars, as the COG puts Gears into the field in small squads of 4 to 8 men. When you fight an entire war with a fraction of a military, there is really only a need for your basic enlisted ranks of Private, Corporal, and Sergeant. It makes sense for a lot of Gears to not be promoted throughout the course of the war because unless holes in the command structure need to be filled, there is no point in promoting everyone and creating an influx of NCO's(Corporals and Sergeants whom command squads) with no grunts or Privates below them.

    Plus, as long as grubs were dying, ranks meant little next to nothing. The war was for human survival, and while the ranks and structure were still there and had some purpose, it wasn't as if they mattered all too much as survival, was of course the number one issue. Hoffman's an example of this as he's technically a Colonel, a rank which in the past would normally command a Regiment, yet he has the experience, power, and control that a past high ranking General would possess. There was no point in promoting him because it was a war for humanity's survival and survival is what came first. Not once important military ranks which over time became less and less in the forefront of everything.
    Last edited by HomemadeWalnuts; 06-07-2012 at 02:57 PM.

  17. #17
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    If I'm not mistaken I think I remember reading something about cole being offered a promotion to Sergeant,But with everything going on he declined it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avidita View Post
    If I'm not mistaken I think I remember reading something about cole being offered a promotion to Sergeant,But with everything going on he declined it
    I think you're correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avidita View Post
    If I'm not mistaken I think I remember reading something about cole being offered a promotion to Sergeant,But with everything going on he declined it
    Cole has turned down several promotions to Corporal, since he believes there is no point in promotions, only in killing Grubs until there are no more to kill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougieInstructor View Post
    I find it odd that Baird, Cole, and Dom retained the same low rank after 15 years. I don't know much about the military but I think you would rise up in rank a little bit after a decade and a half!
    Cole rejected promotions, Baird's rank constantly changed because of his attitude and I think Dom's rank got put down after Marcus' court martial.
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    We do all need to remember that the what the games say is more important than what the books say; Game canon>Book canon.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUGeneralRAAM View Post
    We do all need to remember that the what the games say is more important than what the books say; Game canon>Book canon.
    Not true at all.

    Game canon evolves to create book-canon. If the story is to hold any sort of real weight, both need to compliment one another and move in one time-line. If the books contradict the game, or vice-versa, than the story/plot is disjointed and none of the two is any credible. When you make a game, you have to make sure that down the line, you stay consistent with what you put to paper in the previous installments. Whether that means through books or comics or other sequels.
    I'll check in every now and again but for the most part, I won't be as active as I was previously. It really was the Gears + people that got me posting on here in the first place. Unless Epic release an awesome game or something. I'm leaving this message because I'm obviously a very, very important person.

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  23. #23
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    Sorry, to break it to you, but the MK 2 Lancer was invented about the same time as the events in Judgment. The MK1 Lancer Beyonet was not able to penatrate the Grub's thick hide. So, the chainsaw lancer was designed about 3 - 5 weeks after E-Day.

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    The correct term is "Locust" we don't use xenophobic slurs around the Story and Character section, Mr Groundwalker.

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay the Arbiter View Post
    The correct term is "Locust" we don't use xenophobic slurs around the Story and Character section, Mr Groundwalker.
    well,arent you particular......grub
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  27. #27
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    so thats why he never gets it. he has a bad atitude!!


 

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