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  1. #1
    Skaarj
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    Default True-Skill does not = EXP POINTS

    It would be awesome if in the next update GOW would have a true-skill rank that matches players whit players of similar skill. I believe this would be a major improvement. It would be way better than to keep adding different colors to something that does not even show how good you really are. I give them props for the way they rank horde it is awesome, but imagine if it were ranked the same way as execution for example, it would make no sense there would not be a true challenge.

  2. #2
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    TrueSkill is used on all Xbox games. All Ranked matches on Xbox live use MS TrueSkill.

  3. #3
    Skaarj
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    Not true. There should be a ranking system that is visible and goes up and down according to performance. If there was matches would be more competitive and even. Not 5-0

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANDO View Post
    Not true. There should be a ranking system that is visible and goes up and down according to performance. If there was matches would be more competitive and even. Not 5-0
    Whether you believe it or not, but ALL XBOX games use TrueSkill on ALL Ranked matches.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANDO View Post
    Not true. There should be a ranking system that is visible and goes up and down according to performance. If there was matches would be more competitive and even. Not 5-0
    They are supposedly there, but IMO they are very inconsistent with matchmaking.

    Halo had a simplified visible system back in Halo 2-3 Level 1-50 but people complained they couldn't go up in rank. So now Trueskill must be hidden so as not to discourage gamers. Instead a rank based on how much you have played was implemented, and that's how it's going to stay from now on.

    In Gears Of War 3, i don't think much of an emphasis is placed on evenly matched teams, From my experience you either trounce, or get trounced online most of the time. That could also be because not alot of players play ranked at one time so there is a smaller pool of players for Gow 3 "Ranked" Matchmaking.

  6. #6
    Skaarj
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    I dont believe on invisible true -skill rankings. Hardcore competitive players will understand what I mean

  7. #7
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123KID View Post
    TrueSkill is used on all Xbox games. All Ranked matches on Xbox live use MS TrueSkill.

    You're correct. It goes like this. Searching for matches with skill -infinity to +infinity. It's still using trueskill though, right?
    Gears 1=Gears 3>Vomit>Gears 2.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by anahum View Post
    You're correct. It goes like this. Searching for matches with skill -infinity to +infinity. It's still using trueskill though, right?
    What?
    10 char

  9. #9
    Boomshot
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    @PeteNub tweeted that matchmaking in Quick Match uses player rank (prestige 100 is treated as regular 100) and Ranked uses true skill. For some reason, it seems that after Halo 3 developers decided to hide true skill numbers. Maybe it's a Microsoft requirement. My guess is Epic and Microsoft do the best matchmaking they can with what they have, which is a player population that is smaller than CoD and Halo and also probably has a more imbalanced distribution of skilled players due to the unique gameplay of Gears. I mean, the algorithm could be perfect, but in practice it's only as good as the imperfect player pool available.

  10. #10
    Boomshot
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    Quote Originally Posted by MANDO View Post
    It would be awesome if in the next update GOW would have a true-skill rank that matches players whit players of similar skill. I believe this would be a major improvement. It would be way better than to keep adding different colors to something that does not even show how good you really are. I give them props for the way they rank horde it is awesome, but imagine if it were ranked the same way as execution for example, it would make no sense there would not be a true challenge.
    Case in point, I have my high green rank almost exclusively from horde... I went MAYBE 5 or 10 ranks up in vs., I believe I got to green 77ish before I started playing vs. This means I never get matched in fair matches, I should be playing with noobs in vs lol. But the games I play, I see all from complete noobs, to insane players, that literally whatever team they are on is going to be a near shutout. When I have one of these amazing players on my team, I do amazing... When I'm on the other team, not so much. I'm a .7 k/d and I almost always have the lowest in the game, many are close to 2 or higher. If I don't have a good team, I literally don't stand a chance. I've been improving quite a bit, but still, I prob. go positive about 60% as an estimate, and when I'm up against 2.0 players, I struggle to kill them once while they destroy me repeatedly, and when I do get that 1 kill against them, it's mostly right place at the right time.
    Having a hard time with Bairds? Click this link 2-piecing is like kicking someone in the nuts... you may win the fight, but you're still a loser.

  11. #11
    Marrow Fiend
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    Quote Originally Posted by TG47 View Post
    @PeteNub tweeted that matchmaking in Quick Match uses player rank (prestige 100 is treated as regular 100) and Ranked uses true skill. For some reason, it seems that after Halo 3 developers decided to hide true skill numbers. Maybe it's a Microsoft requirement. My guess is Epic and Microsoft do the best matchmaking they can with what they have, which is a player population that is smaller than CoD and Halo and also probably has a more imbalanced distribution of skilled players due to the unique gameplay of Gears. I mean, the algorithm could be perfect, but in practice it's only as good as the imperfect player pool available.
    This man knows what he is talking about. TrueSkill is definitely used in determining ranked match lineups. The only time it does not apply is in quick matches.
    [][] Anthony Carmine///Savage Kantus
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  12. #12
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    Sometime I get in with white ranks sometimes blue ranks. Either way, they're all bad I couldn't give a crap about the ranking system.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by MANDO View Post
    I dont believe on invisible true -skill rankings. Hardcore competitive players will understand what I mean
    It uses true skill. Fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 ZomBifiieD View Post
    Halo had a simplified visible system back in Halo 2-3 Level 1-50 but people complained they couldn't go up in rank.
    Because they dont understand it. Halo 3 used the same true skill formula in gears, and made the true skill rank visible. It wasn't simplified in any fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 ZomBifiieD View Post
    So now Trueskill must be hidden so as not to discourage gamers. Instead a rank based on how much you have played was implemented, and that's how it's going to stay from now on.
    It's hidden because ppl were selling accounts and using alts to play low ranks. true skill is in ranked.

    Quote Originally Posted by TH3 ZomBifiieD View Post
    In Gears Of War 3, i don't think much of an emphasis is placed on evenly matched teams, From my experience you either trounce, or get trounced online most of the time. That could also be because not alot of players play ranked at one time so there is a smaller pool of players for Gow 3 "Ranked" Matchmaking.
    True skill cannot identify Individual party members it views it as a single entry and finds an average,
    Last edited by NFI; 05-08-2012 at 03:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TroyMcClure View Post
    Nice Find. It was a legit bug and fixed in the retail version today.

    So once Gears 3 releases, when you use the torque, take a bit of pride in knowing you helped make it better

  14. #14

    Default

    Here is info i put in another post.

    Quote Originally Posted by NFI View Post
    True skill predates all of our life times, as far back as the 1930s. The ELO system used in chess provided players what was called a "relative skill" rating, which was the precurser to true skill. The Glicko rating system was created to improve upon the ELO system. Microsofts true skill is an extension of this glicko system (an improved ELO system) by further building off of its improvements, to address some of the inherent ELO deficiencies. This drives mstchmaking on live. Microsoft designed live to patch any games own ranking system to essentially force it to use true skill.

    Microsoft designed it to replace the ELO system, as that system was famously used for chess. The problem w ELO is its designed for 2 competitors, not multiple ones. Microsoft made some changes by assigning 2 values (not 1, like ELO) and allowing ones k value to increase, where as ELO it could only decline. Other changes also occurred, you can read about them at your leisure.

    What we have is an extension of the Glicko system, which is, simply put, a modified, improved version of ELO for the multiplayer game space that addresses the flaws in ELO.




    Quote Originally Posted by NFI View Post
    This matchmaking system in Halo 3 was in fact, microsofts True skill. .

    Halo 3 had a slightly modified version of true skill designed for it to incorporate the 1-50 aspect from HALO 2, and to provide true skill rankings on a per playlist basis.The core mechanic was still the Microsoft developed true skill system. Bungie didn't manufacture it. Microsoft did.

    Bungie was owned by microsoft, and so is Halo. Microsoft can do what it wants on their system. What you are recommending here EPIC cannot do.

    Here is a summary of both the halo 3 use of true skill and implementation into Reach

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...review-1955640


    Every game on live must use true skill for its ranked matches.
    Here is one article on it..

    http://www.gameinformer.com/blogs/me...g-dilemma.aspx

    Here is microsofts official research site..

    http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/...l/Details.aspx

    6th paragraph down..it says it..All games on xbox live use it, and are patched to do so.

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/662/662347p1.html
    Some more..

    Quote Originally Posted by NFI View Post
    This isnt "the problem", because the game DOES use true skill. Pete also stated it.

    “@PeteNub: @TLR_Metaphor @therealcliffyb We use http://t.co/sHzC3FU0 we don't show the number for many reasons.”

    Every game on Xbox live must use it for ranked matches because it's inherent to the live matchmaking process. It's a modified ELO system. Companies have no choice in the matter, it's a Microsoft requirement. Live is designed to Patch any games ranking system to use their true skill system.

    Ideally it would pair up parties but trying to find two, 5 parties, with similar true skill values is not feasible as they aren't all that prevalent. The system cannot differentiate between individual players in a party an because of this it takes an average of the teams "skills" and tries to find a similar match.
    Last edited by NFI; 05-08-2012 at 03:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TroyMcClure View Post
    Nice Find. It was a legit bug and fixed in the retail version today.

    So once Gears 3 releases, when you use the torque, take a bit of pride in knowing you helped make it better

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panch oh View Post
    The extremely small amount of players in each playlist outside of tdm basically voids the true skill system. you can argue and say I'm wrong but idc. Halo 3 would widen the search until it let almost anyone play as a visual example.
    No it wouldn't, it would still pull only similar ranks. Sever drawbacks are the servers can't search beyond itself for players. P2P isn't hindered by this.
    Quote Originally Posted by TroyMcClure View Post
    Nice Find. It was a legit bug and fixed in the retail version today.

    So once Gears 3 releases, when you use the torque, take a bit of pride in knowing you helped make it better

  16. #16
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    We should just have a sticky thread in each section explaining what TrueSkill is and that Gears does have it.

    Seriously...
    Quote Originally Posted by LoGx Heaven View Post
    Team Essence will try to be at the next Hypefestation!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranethar View Post
    This is really good for the community, now no one has the fear of coming last! Should get lots more teams now.

  17. #17
    Skaarj
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    The ranking system in gears is to easy you just play a lot to get to the highest level. I loved halo3 ranking because you had to be good to level up to the highest rank.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monsterlolz View Post
    The ranking system in gears is to easy you just play a lot to get to the highest level. I loved halo3 ranking because you had to be good to level up to the highest rank.
    I'm starting to question if you guys read what's posted. In ranked play gears 3 uses the same system as Halo 3. ALL live games must use true skill for ranked play types. I'm going repost what I posted 2 comments up


    Here is info i put in another post.

    Quote Originally Posted by NFI View Post
    True skill predates all of our life times, as far back as the 1930s. The ELO system used in chess provided players what was called a "relative skill" rating, which was the precurser to true skill. The Glicko rating system was created to improve upon the ELO system. Microsofts true skill is an extension of this glicko system (an improved ELO system) by further building off of its improvements, to address some of the inherent ELO deficiencies. This drives mstchmaking on live. Microsoft designed live to patch any games own ranking system to essentially force it to use true skill.

    Microsoft designed it to replace the ELO system, as that system was famously used for chess. The problem w ELO is its designed for 2 competitors, not multiple ones. Microsoft made some changes by assigning 2 values (not 1, like ELO) and allowing ones k value to increase, where as ELO it could only decline. Other changes also occurred, you can read about them at your leisure.

    What we have is an extension of the Glicko system, which is, simply put, a modified, improved version of ELO for the multiplayer game space that addresses the flaws in ELO.




    Quote Originally Posted by NFI View Post
    This matchmaking system in Halo 3 was in fact, microsofts True skill. .

    Halo 3 had a slightly modified version of true skill designed for it to incorporate the 1-50 aspect from HALO 2, and to provide true skill rankings on a per playlist basis.The core mechanic was still the Microsoft developed true skill system. Bungie didn't manufacture it. Microsoft did.

    Bungie was owned by microsoft, and so is Halo. Microsoft can do what it wants on their system. What you are recommending here EPIC cannot do.

    Here is a summary of both the halo 3 use of true skill and implementation into Reach

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...review-1955640


    Every game on live must use true skill for its ranked matches.
    Here is one article on it..

    http://www.gameinformer.com/blogs/me...g-dilemma.aspx

    Here is microsofts official research site..

    http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/...l/Details.aspx

    6th paragraph down..it says it..All games on xbox live use it, and are patched to do so.

    http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/662/662347p1.html
    Some more..

    Quote Originally Posted by NFI View Post
    This isnt "the problem", because the game DOES use true skill. Pete also stated it.

    ô@PeteNub: @TLR_Metaphor @therealcliffyb We use http://t.co/sHzC3FU0 we don't show the number for many reasons.ö

    Every game on Xbox live must use it for ranked matches because it's inherent to the live matchmaking process. It's a modified ELO system. Companies have no choice in the matter, it's a Microsoft requirement. Live is designed to Patch any games ranking system to use their true skill system.

    Ideally it would pair up parties but trying to find two, 5 parties, with similar true skill values is not feasible as they aren't all that prevalent. The system cannot differentiate between individual players in a party an because of this it takes an average of the teams "skills" and tries to find a similar match.
    Quote Originally Posted by TroyMcClure View Post
    Nice Find. It was a legit bug and fixed in the retail version today.

    So once Gears 3 releases, when you use the torque, take a bit of pride in knowing you helped make it better

  19. #19
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    Hmm, question for you NFI, what's the Matchmaking in Quick? Is it based off your XP or does it just throw you into any game?

    I understand Ranked uses TrueSkill, but not sure on Quick.

  20. #20
    Redeemer
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    my matchmaking must be broke. i have nowhere near the skill, or a full team... but i got matched up against "cR i Raw" which is the number 1 ranked exe player and got worked by his team i was the only person that didnt quit. trueskills broke enough said the topic wont be fixed it wont be looked at and epic really wont bother with it live with it or die by it.
    im on dark souls and injustice until judgment lives up to its gears of war name.


 

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