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  1. #1

    Default Dual Guide (by =Silver=)

    Dual Guide

    Hey, dual hardcore fighters!
    This is a rewritten and systematized threads "Dual: Survival Guide Series", "Dual: Dodge vs Parry" and some other materials. They were combined in one comprehensive Dual Guide, covering all the issues you need to become a pro IB dual fighter!

    Here is the brief Guide structure:

    Intro (you are here)
    1. Special Issues
    1.1. Dodge Doom
    1.2. Dizzy Issue
    1.3. Attack Window Size
    1.4. Gems Stack Issue (by Niiloc)
    2. Fighting Techniques
    2.1. General Methods
    2.2. Special Techniques
    2.2.1. Immediate slash
    2.2.2. One-tap dodge
    2.2.3. Coerced Dodge
    2.2.4. Wrapping combos
    2.3. Survival Guide
    2.3.1. Bosses
    2.3.2. Regular Titans

    Since one post is limited to 30 000 chars, you will find the paragraphs divided between different posts. Some of them reserved for future use.
    I wish you a good learning! Enjoy!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Special thanks to contributors:

    - Bladet
    - DarthDuck
    - Aussie3
    - SpencerTT

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I. Special Issues

    1.1. Dodge Doom

    This is the situation when you more and more out of time with each next dodge, ending up being hit)

    1. The major solution here - is insert parries.

    Here you might find useful the technique of "Immediate Slash" which leaves not a moment between actions. It's a simple double swipe: first swipe you begin right before the end of previous animation, second - right after first swipe. This technique is widely used in wrapping combos (see further)

    2. If you see it is impossible, then use super.

    3. Magic usually is longer than dodge, but you can begin drawing a cast while in dodge animation (when you can't use next dodge yet). And it may save you. Especially when you dodged wrong or too early (false enemy attack moves or long timing hits).

    4. Another, but "long range" recommendation for Dodge Doom, which requires supplementary training - is the technique I call "One Tap Dodge". You have to train yourself to make as short dodges as possible. Try never to hold dodge - just a short single tap. Sometimes, you'll need to learn timing from scratch, this is the key. But having mastered this technique you'll dramatically decrease the risk of the Dodge Doom. You may see not a bad example of this technique in my video, where I fight MX-Stealth lvl 747 (having 8 hp), who is one of the most difficult enemies in this sense, almost exclusively with dodges. Other good sparring partners for trainings are: stone oracle, saidhi, fel siren, wood jester.

    So, reduce "holding dodge" only to stepback combos, where you really need it (to sit in dodge for two hits) or for other dodge technique I call "Coerced Dodge". This is where for the opening hit you leave just the ending animation of dodge, so you need to hold it before. It's used e.g. with all kinds of knights in their famous combo (shield, leg kick, slash). Without Coersed Dodge technique you'll necessarily miss leg kick. Others include sorok and jester stepbacks and more. See «Spesial Techniques Section» further.

    1.2. Dizzy Issue

    Reasons for Dizzy mode:
    1. Missed hit
    2. Broken parry
    3. Blocked slash

    Fighting reasons

    (1) How not to miss a hit - is a too wide question. There still may be some general recommendations like try to parry all the way, limit dodge mainly to unparryables (leg kicks, shields, ...) and for the last hits, quit clash wars. Learn useful techniques (like "one tap dodge", "immediate slash" and so on) and learn hard enemy stepback combos and countering methods

    (2) Broken parry is the result of the wrong parry direction (and timing? more evidence needed). Strong deviation leads to missing the hit, moderate - to broken parry. So, solution is clear - watch for coming hit direction. Use the feedback and move gradually from broken to perfect parry

    (3) How to understand that your slash will be blocked:

    a) if you attack enemy not in breaks but between his attacks (otherwise it'll be scratch). Watch for break message on the screen

    b) in time-bound attack windows you can see a dizzy icon in the right upper corner. If it disappears, next hit will be blocked

    In hit-bound windows it's hard to understand the end of this window

    When you are dizzy

    In all situations character has a limited abilities
    The worst affected - parry. You can't parry for some time. So:

    1. Super
    The first aid is super, you can do it immediately, dizziness doesn't affect it at all

    2. Magic
    It's less efficient, cause you need the time to draw a cast. Do it better in breaks after your attack sessions right after start of your last hit animation. Be careful here: if you do it too early, you will cancel you last hit, if you do it too late, you can interfere with the end of the fight phase. Look for your HP cause damage may be an over-time type. Nevertheless, if you still need magic to avoid the harm of being dizzy (or dying from DoT), then look for the next hit: if it's a long hit - you may try magic, if not - hit dodge

    3. Dodge
    Major defense method when dizzy. Use One-Tap Dodge technique in order not to enter the Dodge Doom trap, switch to parry as soon as you can, but leave the last hit for dodge

    4. Parry
    Strongly not recommended. You may try on your own risk, but only for long hits

    1.3. Attack Window Size

    There are two types of break windows:

    1. Hit-bound (HB). The length of HB windows counts in hits, notwithstanding the time it takes to perform them. Of course if you make a too long pause between hits it'll close the window. HBs are the result of dodge: if you dodge the last hit - you get HB window.
    The general rule for this type of windows - the most effective way to use them - is to make combos. This is the most effective (longest, esp with Break+ gems) break window type in any conditions, try always to max them out in a fight.

    2. Time-bound (TB). The length of TB windows counts in time, notwithstanding how many hits you managed to do. TBs reflect a dizzy state of the titan and are the result of ending parry or spelling super attack. It is depicted with the yellow stars in the upper-right corner of the screen. Research shows that the damage you make is approx the same whether you combo or just do a quick simple hits, because combos require more time to perform. Try to minimize this type of break windows.
    *Beware of the bug, known from the very first versions of the game until now (v1.3): if you get TB window with stab opportunity - await bad registering of your swipes during the following attack or even when countering titan moves afterwards. Just try more dodging or do solid, bold long swipes.

    Other interesting issue is what factors are responsible for the size of attack windows
    Prepared by forum member SpencerTT

    Abbreviations used: HBBW = Hit Bound Break Window & 5CCC = 5 combo continue combo
    HBBW variables:
    CB = class bonus (4 for light, 6 for heavy and dual)
    TB = titan break+ bonus, S = large stepback bonus (2)
    P = parry, GP = great parry, PP = perfect parry
    B = block, PB = perfect block
    D = dodge
    H = hit taken

    HBBW = CB + TB + S + .125(P) + .25(GP + B) + .50(D + PB) + 1.00(PP) - 2.00(H) (round with .50 rounding up)
    Let Skill = .125(P) + .25(GP + B) + .50(D + PB) + 1.00(PP) - 2.00(H)

    The minimum Skill for a no hit taken break for dual = .125(3) + .5(1) = .875 which rounds to 1
    The minimum Skill for a no hit taken break for light and heavy = .125(3) + .25(1) = .625 which rounds to 1
    The minimum break window for "mainstream light" is 7 if you do not get hit. (4 + 2 + 0 + Skill rounded >= 7)
    The minimum break window for "mainstream dual" and heavy is 9 if you do not get hit. (6 + 2 + 0 + Skill rounded >=9)

    Max Skill per attack chain variables:
    TS = Total Strikes (The total number of strikes in the titan’s attack chain)
    SS = Stepback Strikes (The number of strikes in the titan’s attack chain stepback)
    NPS = No Parry Strikes (The number of strikes that cannot be parried before the beginning of the stepback)

    Keeping in mind that parrying a stepback during any one of its strikes results in a Time Bound Break Window…
    Max Skill (Light,Heavy, & Dual)= TS - .5(SS + NPS)
    Max Skill (Dual with “parry all”) = TS - .5(SS)
    I have gotten a skill of 4 for light, heavy, and dual against normal titans.
    I was equipped with TB+4 in each case, resulting in a 14 HBBW for light and 16 HBBW for dual and heavy.
    Max Skill can only be attained on large stepbacks because of the longer attack chains. (More skill available)
    Skill can reach even higher values against bosses because of their additional moves (God King and Ryth come to mind)

    "Usual fight" analysis

    If you want to understand what is it all about your everyday grinding, you may want to simplify it. Under "usual fight" I mean that you have, say, one Break+2 equipped. In this situation you may move aside all those "perfect things", cause they happen not so often to have a great surplus to an average statistical value. So the "mainstream" and "max base" attack window sizes using light will be 7 and 9. What is 2 hits less than for dual. They are 9 and 11 respectively at the same conditions:

    "Light mainstream" (HB7) = x+x+2x+2,5x+3x+3x+3x=15,5
    "Dual mainstream" (HB9) = x+x+2x+2x+2x+2x+2x+2x+3x=17

    "Light base max" (HB9) = x+x+2x+2,5x+3x+3x+3x+3x+3x=21,5
    "Dual base max" (HB11) = x+x+2x+2x+2x+2x+2x+2x+2x+2x+3x=21

    This is a kind of "break even" between dual and light with that combo5 gem.

    So,
    If you don't have TB+ gem (all NG+ mode: you either don't have it when you rush through NGs, not saying about the chance you'll have the time to find/buy combo5 gem, or you use Bonus XP, when you level) then dual is still more effective.

    If you have more than one TB+ gem (late OG mainly, when you got combo5 and don't need gold), then light may do more damage per attack window.

    Getting out the most

    If you want to further hone your fighting performance, you must learn all those "perfect things" and their impact on your attack possibilities (see the formula by SpencerTT above)


    1.4. Gems Stack Issue
    This chapter was prepared by the GK Club member ID#8, Niiloc

    "After some extensive testing i have confirmed that titan break +2 hex gems DO stack...

    i performed the following test on 5 different titans, with identical results:

    1) fought the titan three times, only playing through the first break window before re-starting the battle
    2) I only dodged titans' attacks, i did not parry at all
    3) I did not use combo attacks, only single swipes in the same direction (mono-swiping)...

    -on first fight, i had no TB+2 hex gems equipped
    -on first break window, i was getting 6-7 hits (which is the norm)...
    -re-started fight and equipped one TB+2 hex gem
    -on first break window, i was getting 8-9 hits (again, normal with a TB+2 hex equipped)

    -re-started fight for third time and equipped a second TB+2 hex gem (2nd one in paga circle ring)
    -on first break window, i was getting 10-13 hits (mostly 11 hits)...I do have a video recording where i was able to register 12/13 hits.

    My findings indicate that with 2 Titan break+2 hex gems equipped, one will get a minimum break window of 10 hits against small attack chains, and up to 13 versus long attack chains (i.e. a traditional GK step-back). Of course, these above numbers will only occur if you do not take a hit during an enemy's attack chain, and do not parry the final attack of an enemy's attack chain.

    II. Fighting Techniques

    2.1. General Methods

    2.1.1. Combos

    There are two combos possible with dual in IB2:

    1. Huge.
    This combo is similar to the same combo in IB1, and has the same 2x damage for huge hit. The standard formula for huge is: left-right-left. The last hit will be a huge hit. The feature of IB2 dual is that once started you can do huge hits until attack window closes if you doesn’t change direction of the hits after third huge (horizontal or vertical).

    2. Ultra.
    Like in IB1 ultra makes 3x damage. To make ultra you need to change direction after at least three huge hits. This hit will be ultra, and it’ll stop the huge chain. Another way to get ultra: left huge - right huge - up huge - down huge - left ultra. Just like ultra in IB1 but with huge hits.

    2.1.2. Dodge and Parry

    There are two major direct defense methods. It seems overall parry became less rewarding in IB2, than in IB1 when using dual style. Moreover, it's less effective than dodge. Here and everywhere we suppose Titan Break gem equipped.

    Parry pros=======

    1. Quicker than dodge.
    Especially in hit series, cause it breaks the trajectory of hits in combos thus pausing it and gaining some time for next hit

    2. Breaks the stepback combos.
    You may stop big and deadly combos with just one right parry

    3. Stab opportunities.
    Well, I don't know exactly whether it's a pro or cons, it depends on many factors, analysis is below.

    There are two types of stab opportunities in dual:

    3.1. Parry reward.
    It goes at the end of the combos or if you interrupt it with the parry, after it you get multiple circles going one after another. More circles you get with Break gem equipped. There could be circles appearing in parallel (not consecutive), but I'm not sure if it's not a glitch. After it you get automatic stab session followed by a time-bound attack window. And this is not good as we know, because they can be either 7 or more rare 9 hits (x-x-2x-2x-2x-2x-3x or x-x-2x-2x-2x-2x-2x-2x-3x). Another bug with these type of circles - is a much worse registering of gestures after the stab session. I personally don't like it cause in average you do more damage with simple hit-bound window which is 9 to 11 hits. Even if you get 9 hit window which is more often in hit-bound windows you do equal or more damage than stabs + usual 7 hits (not saying about bad register problems): 4x ~ nx/3. So, if you make more than n=12 stabs in a stab session and make no mistakes after it, you make a little bit more damage, but comparing to 11 hit window (which is not so rare as 9 hit in time-bound window), it's a loose.

    3.2. Interrupting circle.
    This is a single stab opportunity which interrupts a stepback (taken from IB1). Pros is that you can interrupt the combo. Cons - is that you have only 4 hit window to make a simple huge combo. The rule here is: if you are sure you may counter the combo without using this stab DON'T EVER TOUCH THE CIRCLE, and instead of 4 hit window you may get 11 hit one. Beware of a worse trap: sometimes you may get that type of circles at the end of the combo - be sure not to touch it incidentally.

    4. Sure break
    Parrying the stepback moves gives you a 100% break, while dodging - not. Though if it does - it is a longer window. So, you may get just a "scratch pause" instead of "attack window", following by new attack set. I personally had four conscecutive attack sets from Fel Siren (ab 1200 lvl) going one after another, each finishing with a stepback combo (which I dodged). Only fifth attack gave me the window, but since I've mistaken once it was a 9 hit window, not 11. If I parried, I'd have the break after the very first attack set, but it'd be not more than a 7 hit window

    Parry cons=======

    1. Shorter attack windows.
    All parry breaks are time-bound. So, they usually 5 hit windows, and more rare - if you interrupted a stepback combo, it may be a 7 hit window. If you do a perfect parry (and sometimes great) you get a stab opportunities, which can overcompensate the lack of two huges. Read p. 3 above about it.

    2. Tap wars.
    They are more rare and less random in IB2 comparing to IB1. Now it's more clear, that they are more often when you are too early, or too late with the parry. The rest is the same: first war you can win easily with one finger, second - is not easy with four, third - almost impossible to win. Remember, that damage of lost war hit is the double of the hit you you jammed. It's impossible to quit the tap war if it started. The best tactics here - is not to allow second or third tap war: don't parry the last hits - dodge, or be careful with parry timings.

    Here is also the same bug as with "parry reward circles" - bad touch registering after stab session or tap war (thanks groove for reminding this).

    3. Clash wars.
    The main reason of clash wars is wrong timing/direction. The result is normal or broken parry with 2 to 5 supplementary quick consecutive slashes in random directions. There are two major tactic ways:

    3.1. Continue parrying.
    You will end up with a parry break if you successfully parry all consecutive hits. Missed hit will have normal damage and finish the clash war.

    3.2. Dodge.
    First dodge will quit the clash war. Note, it may be ANY dodge (side/crouch) notwithstanding the direction of the hit.

    Overall strategy: use any dodge if you engaged in a clash war. There are no any reward in IB2 for continuing it except fun (in IB1 you could get longer attack window, esp. when you were hit during a combo, otherwise you allowed only one hit). All the more dodge breaks are longer.
    You have to use dodge if one of the parries happened broken. Parrying is impossible here.

    Dodge pros=======

    1. Longer attack windows.
    Dodge breaks are hit-bound breaks it means, that you can do up to 11 hits, having in mind following dependencies (need more empirical evidence):

    - simple single attack, random hits, no stepbacks, not many hits (2-5). This leads to a 7-hit window. Max damage here is x-x-2x-2x-2x-2x-3x (13 hit damage)

    - Medium sized attacks, with one stepback. This leads to a 9-hit attack window - most common for dodge break. Max damage here is x-x-2x-2x-2x-2x-2x-2x-3x (17 hit damage)

    - Long sized or composed (two attacks, e.g. when your attack failed) attacks with multiple stepbacks. Higher probability with wretch-class and bosses). It makes possible 11 hit windows. Max damage here is x-x-2x-2x-2x-2x-2x-2x-2x-2x-3x (21 hit damage).

    2. Faster when dizzy.
    If you've been hit, or had your parry broken, don't ever try to parry next quick hit - dodge. See the p.1.2. "Dizzy Issue" for more information.

    Dodge cons=======

    1. Limited number of dodges.
    If you fall on dodges very much you can get exhausted dodge. Each exhausted dodge will drain your HP. I didn't check it out, but the number on your armor with "running man" means the quantity of dodges in one enemy attack window before you get exhausted. So, insert parries, and save dodges for final hits, or hits with hard timing. One successful parry restores one dodge.

    Thanks to ckd0214, he had more evidence on resetting the remaining dodge number to full after each break

    2. "Slow Motion Bug".
    Thanks Groove, Dknowle

    "I'll tap dodge, not holding it down. Then what happens next seems like its in slow motion. The animation shows me slowly recovering from the dodge, while the enemy recovers from the dodge break. I'll then try to strike, but it will get blocked".
    Good thing is that it's not very often. Possible reasons: too late last dodge, game bug rendering wrong animation.

    Overall effective strategy: try to save the last hit before the break window for dodge.

    2.1.3. Super

    In the upper left corner of the screen you may find an indicator for «Super». You may use it as offensive as well as the defensive weapon. It interrupts any activity and gives you a stab opportunity + usual time-bound window. Great con of Super is that it works in any situation: in any time of the fight and in any state, even when you are dizzy.

    It charges slowly if at all (?). There are two main factors which can speed up recharging:

    When you damage opponent
    When you are being damaged

    It does not damage apart from stabs and attack window opportunities
    Recharge speed and damage don’t depend on magic pts
    It may starts recharging only after opponent dizzy state finished

    2.1.4. Magic

    In the upper right corner of the screen you may find an indicator for «Magic». Recharge speed depends on magic pts. There is the cap in OG for the first recharge speed (thanks to DarthDack research) - it’s 200 magic pts. It means that increasing magic pts over the 200 will not make the first recharge faster. Next cycles will be longer up to the 60 sec cap. Increasing magic over 200 makes next recharge cycles faster, but it’s diminishing again to 60 sec. NG slows down cycles and moves the pts cap.

    Using magic as an offensive mean is good on early rebirths (under 100). Though increasing magic pts increases the damage, after 100 RBs it becomes a mosquito bite comparing to a simple slash damage. Finally you come to using it for healing only. At the very skill cap, when you use «all in attack» strategy you don’t use magic at all, and replace it with attack pts.

    You may also use magic for interrupting unwanted combos combining it with healing or hitting.

    2.2. Special Techniques

    Along with general methods there are some special techniques that may help you out.

    2.2.1. «Immediate Slash»

    It's a simple double swipe: first swipe you begin right before the end of previous animation, second - right after first swipe.
    It leaves not a moment between actions

    2.2.2. «One-tap Dodge»

    "One-tap dodge" means that you don't hold it down, just tap it. This needs a timing study - you must time correctly the beginning of the dodge, the rest will be done automatically.
    It gives you max time before hit and min possible dodge time, what is critical for avoiding a "dodge doom".

    Try apply it everywhere you use dodge.

    2.2.3. «Coerced Dodge»

    Sometimes you need to control dodge end time. This needs holding a dodge button down and releasing it on a right time, leaving ending dodge animation only, instead of full dodge.
    It helps you to insert standing up between two dodges in a tight hit sequence if one dodge is not enough for these two hits.

    Good example of coerced dodge is famous knights stepback (shield bash, leg kick, slash from up-left). It's not possible to dodge leg without this technique. Some other combos of Sorok, Jester, Hunter and so on require it too.

    So, there are two situations where you need to hold down dodge - "coerced dodge" and sitting two hits in one dodge. All the rest must be a one-tap

    2.2.4. «Wrapping Combos»

    If you leave not a space between actions, then you may count a last hit of the last combo as the first hit of the next combo. Where to use with dual: when you made an ultra and interrupted the huge chain, but have remaining hits in a window. You just immediately hit in the opposite direction and the next opposite will be huge again. To wrap combos successfully you have to use «Immediate Slash» technique.
    Last edited by =Silver=; 08-24-2012 at 11:00 AM.
    "Skillbuilding as a lifestyle"
    The God King Club ID#1|Ultimate GK Slayer |True Jedi |
    NG Code follower
    =Dual Guide=

  2. #2

    Default

    2.3. Survival Guide

    The idea is simple and taken from the Survival Mode in IB1. Task is to win the enemy not loosing ("pure cracks") or min loosing of health. No element defense, no shields, nowhere to hide, just you and your skills.

    Guide is organized in sections, each section - new enemy. First comes the brief description of combo, then goes counter methods (description and animated GIF illustration, when possible). Where you see animated GIF, you can click on "Method" to see fully controllable YouTube video. You may want to check out a comprehensive database of nice fights, prepared by Bladet for your further learning. Some of these fights are "Pure Crack Fights" and may be a good example of techniques discussed here.

    All these sections will be available here in the first post (I'll try to keep it updated). The rest posts are the discussion, you are welcome to suggest your "cracks", I'll include it here (naming the author )

    I'm not going to cover all attack elements it's absurd, b/c in IB2 there are many random moves. Just most fierce stepbacks, the rest are simple dodges/parries.

    Ok, let's crack'em all!

    2.3.1. Bosses

    ======= The God King =======
    Videos by =Silver=

    Ok gus&gals, here is the God King
    And yes, he is a pure crack

    1. Sword up (pure crack)
    He makes a big step back raising his sword up to the left shoulder. Then goes quick diagonal slash instantly followed by the shield bash long the same trajectory.

    Method 1
    Dodge right for all two hits
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    This is the easiest stepback

    2. Four hit combo (pure crack)
    He makes a big step back, then comes a long almost vertical shield bash from up-right, then diagonal slash from down-left, another diagonal slash in turn from up-left, then vertical shield kick from down

    Method 1
    Dodge right for two first hits, dodge right for third, then again right dodge for fourth hit.
    Remember in version 1.1 there are no possibility to start attack after dodging third hit
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    This is a medium difficulty stepback.

    3. "360 move" (pure crack)
    He makes two short steps back, then comes 360 degrees counterclockwise shield bash, then vertical shield hit from up, then goes the combo of two quick and short diagonal swipes: first from up-left, second - from up-right.

    Method 1
    «Coerced dodge» for the first hit, so that the next left dodge to start earlier. Sit in this dodge for second and third hit, but be careful to release the dodge button before the third swipe will make a half way down. Then do «Immediate slash», diagonal from down-left.
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    This stepback has a very tough timing. Train hard «Coerced dodge» and «Immediate slash» techniques.

    3. Magic shots (pure crack)
    It appeared in the v1.2. There were no any magic shots by the God King before
    He steps back and shoots up to 5 times. All these series end up with the very quick vertical jump slash.

    Method 1.
    Parry all magic shots, then side dodge for final jump slash
    Timing is tricky what makes parry unstable. If you are one-hit-dead, I don't recommend this method.
    If you missed one of the shots and been hit - don't parry next shot, or you'll be hit again - dodge only. You may continue parrying after that.

    Last research shows more stability in parrying the magic shots when you vertically parry central shots and horizontally - side shots

    Method 2.
    Dodge every attack.
    The main principle for countering magic is the same as with Thane and Saidhi: left shots - right dodge, right shot - left dodge, center shot - any side dodge.
    "One-tap dodge" technique is a must here for stable fight. But beware, there are two types of shots: balls and wheels. Wheels are much more slow, so too early dodge may end with being hit on the return move

    ---------- Current research on the God King ----------
    The following chapters were prepared by the respectful Gog King Club members as well as the other forum members.

    Reserved issue

    .............................


    ======= Thane (all versions) =======
    Videos by Bladet

    1. Jump back, hiding with shield (pure crack)
    Jump with central leg hit, horizontal shield bash from right, horizontal slash from left

    Method 1
    Any dodge, crouch, immediate horizontal parry or crouch
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    Method 2.
    Any dodge, crouch, stab

    Method 2 is easier, but gives much smaller attack window

    2. Short turning stepback (pure crack)
    Shield bash from up-left, central leg hit, shield bash from up-right, horizontal slash from left.

    Method 1
    Crouch, side dodge, crouch for last two hits

    3. Long turning stepback "Quadruple shield bash" (pure crack)
    Turning stepback, then 4 diagonal shield bashes: from up-right, from down-left, from up-right, from up-left

    Method 1
    Four consecutive crouches (first may be right dodge).
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    4. Magic balls
    Stepback with magic balls

    Method 1.
    Just side dodges. There are three directions. For right do left dodges, for left - right, for central - any side dodge. Anyway if you don't dodge you'll get hit notwithstanding the direction.

    Method 2. "Jedy Defense" (thanks to itsmechrisa)
    Just parry these balls in any direction! Don't let them to come to close. This is a more quick method than dodging.
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    General principle:
    Crouch timing is the key to Thane

    Search Bladet's database for more examples


    ======= Stone Demon =======
    Videos by Bladet

    Though it's one of the easiest enemies, I decided to put it here after Thane for collection

    1. Center freeze (pure crack)
    Center leg, 3 diagonal hits

    Method 1
    Side dodge, three consecutive crouches
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    2. Left freeze (pure crack)
    Four diagonal hits

    Method 1
    Four consecutive crouches
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    3. Right freeze (pure crack)
    Two diagonal and two vertical hits

    Method 1
    Two couches, two side dodges
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    Nothing to add
    Just take dual and enjoy

    Search Bladet's database for more examples


    ======= Archivist =======
    Videos will follow

    1. Turn hit in the jump (pure crack)
    He makes a high and long turning jump ending with a powerful vertical slash, then comes two diagonal swipes: from down-right, then from down-left, then crisscross. This is his most beautiful and fierce combo

    Method 1
    Left dodge for first two hits (as late dodge as possible), right dodge for third hit, crouch - for fourth

    Method 2 (in work...)
    Trying to use stopping parry: either on the first jump hit hit, or on the second. Pretty sure it could be done after the first two hits (after the first dodge). No progress yet... He dies too fast
    Tell me if someone managed to do it, especially parrying the first hit, right timing here may be the key

    2. Low double swings (pure crack)
    He turns aside bowing, and make a low horizontal double swing in one direction, then in the opposite

    Method 1
    Crouch (parry) for each double swing

    3. Turn leg combo (pure crack)
    He steps a bit back turning, then follow two consecutive turn horizontal leg hits from left, then low horizontal double swipe from left, then turn low swipe from right

    Method 1
    Late crouch for first two legs, then immediate horizontal parry. It'll stop the combo

    Method 2
    Three consecutive crouches: Late crouch for the first two legs, then crouch for double swipe, then crouch for turn hit

    4. Diagonal double swings (pure crack)
    First couple comes from up-left, second from up-right

    Method 1
    First late parry will stop the entire combo. Be careful with timing wait a bit or you'll perform an early miss

    Method 2
    Two consecutive crouches

    Search Bladet's database for more examples


    2.3.2. Regular Titans

    ======= MX-Stealth =======
    Videos by Bladet

    1. Triple combo (pure crack)
    Center leg, diag leg from down-left, low slash from left

    Method 1
    Dodge left/right, crouch, horizontal parry or crouch
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    2. Double turn slash (pure crack)
    Turn slash from up-right, turn slash from up-left

    Method 1.
    Stopping parry. First parry stops the combo

    Method 2
    Right dodge/crouch, then left dodge/crouch
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    3. Triple leg spin (pure crack)
    Triple low horizontal leg spin from left to right, then crisscross from up

    Method 1 "Aussie Defense" (pure crack, thanks to Aussi3)
    Late crouch for first two legs, second - for the rest (you may use parry for the last crisscross)
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    Method 2 "SAB Defense" (pure crack, thanks to Silversabeast)
    You can make four individual short ducks for each hit.
    This became possible from IB2 ver 1.1

    4. Complex combo (pure crack)
    Horizontal low double slash from left, triple leg series, center double slash

    Method 1.
    Early horizontal parry will stop the entire long combo.

    That's all for MX-Stealth. Though it's a pure crack, it remains one of the hardest and tough balanced enemies. Partly because of difficult defense, partly because of hard and insidious mix of dual moves and unparryable leg hits.

    Search Bladet's database for more examples


    ======= MX-Enforcer =======
    Videos by Bladet

    1. Stab jump (pure crack)
    Long jump with stab from up, center kneel hit, double hit from up-right, double hit from up-left.

    Method 1.
    Parrying of the fist jump hit will stop the entire combo. Be accurate with timing, it's a late parry. He sort of hangs in the air, you need to wait for it to fly closer, or you'll just scratch him. If counter failed you take a huge damage. Very dangerous and deadly combo

    2. Hand kick jump (pure crack)
    Long jump with a hand smash, low horizontal double hit

    Method 1
    Any dodge, then immediate horizontal parry (or crouch)
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    3. Triple double hit (pure crack)
    Quick triple double hits from up-left

    Method 1.
    Parrying the first hit will stop the entire combo. Remember not using left dodge, it'll work max for two hits, then you get third double hit. Heavy damage combo.

    4. Somersault (pure crack)
    Somersault with double leg hit, double diagonal hit from up-left, double diagonal hit from up-right

    Method 1.
    Crouch for somersault, then parry. It'll stop the combo

    Method 2.
    Crouch for somersault, then left dodge, then right dodge

    That's all for MX-Enforcer. The rest are simple dodges and parries. Just beware of hand hits and center stabs (any dodge), these are unparryables.

    Yes, though Enforcer is a tough guy, if you know how to deal with him he is easy. It's a "pure crack". This means you can fight him as long as you want and beat him on any his level, having min health and no elements.

    "Infinity killing"!

    Search Bladet's database for more examples


    ======= Fel Siren =======
    Videos by Bladet

    1. Turn leg hit (pure crack)
    Turn leg hit from left to right, double diagonal hit from up-left. To recognize: she steps back (at center) and waves her weapon.

    Method 1
    Hold down crouch. Use as late crouch as you can
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    2. Splits smash (pure crack)
    Double diagonal hit from up-left, double diagonal hit from up-right, central hit from up to splits down. To recognize the combo: she steps back (to the left), stops and make some waving with her weapon (to the left from her)

    Method 1. Parrying first hit will stop the combo.

    3. Somersault stepback (pure crack)
    Easy to recognize when she does a somersault back. Then follows a kapuero diagonal turn leg hit from down-right, low horizontal slash, vertical slash from up

    Method 1.
    Crouch for first two hits, then immediate vertical parry (hard timing)

    That's all. Though Fel Siren is a "pure crack", she remains a very hard enemy. The main difficulty with Siren is in her quick hand hits. They are unparryable. You must perform a series of quick dodges: left, if it comes from left; left or right, for anything else.
    More rare unparryable is a weapon stab.
    Other unparryables are more easy to dodge: legs in side somersault (crouch), legs in vertical somersault or hand stand (left/right dodge).
    But... That's all! Don't get into constant dodging! It's a Siren's trap: dodges are slower and your risk of being hit is very high. The only one use of dodge apart from unparryables - is when you caught hit inside the combo (this is the general rule: dodge is quicker when dizzy)


    Search Bladet's database for more examples


    ======= Shade =======
    Videos by Bladet

    1. Turn double leg hit (pure crack)
    He goes right freezes for a second then kick with both legs. Next hits are optional parryable hits

    Method 1. Crouch for two leg hits. The hardest follow is a quick hit from up-right. It requires an early dodge end and immediate parry

    2. Outer leg (pure crack)
    He moves to your left, short pause, then follows his left leg outward hit, slash from up-left, slash from up-right

    Method 1
    Crouch for first two hits, then immediate parry (or second crouch). Release crouch right after the second hit, or you will not have time for a parry
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    3. Two turn leg hits (pure crack)
    Turn clockwise leg hit, turn anti-clockwise leg hit, then may follow various parryable hits

    Method 1. Crouch for first hit, then for second, then parry whatever comes.

    4. Triple leg+ (pure crack)
    First is a simple hit coming from your right, second - is a turn hit from left, third is a turn hit from right, then slash from up-right. This is a most deadly combo of Shade. To recognize it: before first leg hit he stands on one leg for while.

    Method 1. Triple crouch. Last crouch - for last two hits, push it as late as possible and don't release it after leg

    The hardest thing with Shade is timing of leg hits. Good thing that they are a pure crack, that means once trained, you can kill any lvl beast with minimal stats and no elements.

    Search Bladet's database for more examples


    ======= Saydhi =======
    Videos by Bladet

    1. Splits (pure crack)
    She steps back turning. Then comes huge hand bash from up-left with splits, then low horizontal slash, then leg hit from down-left, then leg hit from up-right

    Method 1
    Crouch, then immediate horizontal parry

    2. One leg stand, spear up (pure crack)
    Low horizontal turn slash from right, then the same from left

    Method 1
    Parrying the first hit will stop the combo

    3. Leg attack (pure crack)
    Simple leg hit from down-left, center leg hit from down in somersault, then run back and low horizontal slash from right

    Method 1
    Crouch, side dodge, horizontal parry (or crouch)
    This Image Was Automatically Resized by using the Screenshot Tag.  Click to view the full version

    Other moves:
    1. If she moves completely to the right or to the left - crouch for double leg hits in somersault
    2. If she turns back - side dodge for hit from up over her head
    3. Fire magic spikes you can parry all with just one slash from up. Don't let them too close. If you missed one, don't parry next - dodge

    Watch out for hand kicks

    Search Bladet's database for more examples


    ======= Horned Stalker =======


    1. Jump hand bash or "Long Sideways" (pure crack)
    He jump turning in the air bashing from up with his left hand, then two double hits (very HP consuming) in one diagonal: from up-right, then from down-left. This is his deadliest combo

    Method 1
    Side dodge hand bash, then immediate early diagonal parry from down-left. Parry will stop the combo

    2. Short Sideways (pure crack)
    He jumps back and stands sideways with his left leg to you. Then comes jump leg hit, then turn jump hand from up

    Method 1
    Crouch for leg, then side dodge

    3. Simple hand bash (pure crack)
    He steps back and swing his left hand back. Then comes central hand kick with step forward, then swipe from up

    Method 1
    Side dodge for hand, then side dodge or early vertical parry


    Search Bladet's database for more examples


    ======= Plated Sorok =======
    This guy is a famous diehard from IB1.
    He had many uncrackable moves there. But with dual, it's all crackable.

    - To ericmurphy and his beloved girlfriend Fel Siren -

    1. "Double Leg" stepback (pure crack)
    He make some steps back, then rests upon his left arm making a long horizontal double leg swipe from left to right (counter clockwise), then follows immediate kneel kick, then crisscross. This is the easiest timing combo

    Method 1
    Duck for double leg, then side dodge for kneel, then duck for crisscross

    2. "Crisscross" (pure crack)
    He makes a round double swings in the air coming with a dreadful crisscross to you, then goes double slash from down up, then the same from up down

    Method 1
    Coerced duck for the crisscross, then vertical parry. It'll stop the combo.

    Method 2
    Duck for the crisscross, then late side dodge for the rest two hits

    Choose either one, which is more stable to you.
    Better try to learn Method 2, cause it gives you a hit-bound window (21x with Break+2)

    3. Somersault (pure crack)
    He runs back waving with the blades, then comes somersault with vertical slashes, then double sword slash from down up, then crisscross

    Method 1
    Vertical parry. It'll stop the entire combo.

    Method 2
    Side dodge for somersault, then late side dodge for the rest two hits.

    Again, second method is better for longer attack window (11 hit window with Break+2), but the timing of the first dodge is tricky. Method 2 is more stable.
    Last edited by =Silver=; 06-22-2012 at 02:33 AM.
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  3. #3

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    -- reserved --
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  4. #4

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    --- reserved ---
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  5. #5

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    Don't hesitate to to place here the requests for next enemy cracks
    Working on Plated Sorok for eric now ))
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    Silver, nice guide nice work.

    Wizard without magic.

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    This is an awesome guide. Lots of stuff I had no idea about. Thanks!

  8. #8
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    Nice work Silver
    That's What She Said!!!
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    Thanks guys, glad you liked it
    Hey, rios old chap! Is there any other GK Club members on the forum?
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    Quote Originally Posted by =Silver= View Post
    Don't hesitate to to place here the requests for next enemy cracks
    Working on Plated Sorok for eric now ))
    Looking forward to it. The guy is still kicking my butt.

    (Although, I have to admit a lot of it is simply bad IB habits. I for some reason cannot get used to center dodge.)
    Exo-Pilot: You don't look like a great warrior.

    Siris: Apparently not.

  11. #11
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    l'm the same don't have too much time to play IB2 and be here in the forum

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    honestly saying, silver is my mentor. without his dual guide, i don't think i could keep fighting with titians in OG till now.

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    Nice guide but really magic balls? You are hilarious man!!! But you are a beast in ib1 and ib2
    P.s. nice job on getting the blade named after you. I already mastered it!!

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    Thanks timmy, welcome to the dual hardcore club
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    The Silver dual sword is pretty cool as well I love using it
    That's What She Said!!!
    Dual is the skill of Champions™
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    unsure if this has already been discussed or not, but the MX-Stealth's step back with three leg kicks can now be cracked without a coerced dodge...in the newest update, you can do three one-tap ducks followed by a straight up swipe to pure crack this formerly annoying step back...

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiiLoC View Post
    unsure if this has already been discussed or not, but the MX-Stealth's step back with three leg kicks can now be cracked without a coerced dodge...in the newest update, you can do three one-tap ducks followed by a straight up swipe to pure crack this formerly annoying step back...
    Yep, it was discussed somewhere. I guess SAB first managed to do this, but with the Plated Guard, which is the same technique.
    Corrected guide

    SAB, you may suggest your own name to this defense method.
    It's "SAB Defense" now
    Last edited by =Silver=; 05-17-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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    Plated Sorok added
    Eric, go avenge him!
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    To any dual users, I suggest using the Vile Shield or Epsilon, as you can use the All Defense Gem, and then also have 2 extra stat gem spots.
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    Perhaps you sould do a crack for the MX-Defender, and the Eyeless Noc.
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    MX-Defender is done long ago

    Eyeless Noc has a very easy stepbacks: just parry the first hit of any his stepback, and it'll stop it.
    His main difficulty - is in quick hand kicks and staff stabs. This is a "Dodge Doom" issue.
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    Update

    1. Added the God King magic shots
    2. Added Chapter 1.4 "Gems Stack Issue" by Niiloc
    3. Added a chapter under the GK. In this chapter I will publish the latest research on the GK behavior. So, if there are any contributors - welcome (SAB, grant, niiloc, rugged, rios, other respectful members)

    @Niiloc
    See what you'd like to change/add and send me the new text right in one of the posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by =Silver= View Post
    MX-Defender is done long ago

    Eyeless Noc has a very easy stepbacks: just parry the first hit of any his stepback, and it'll stop it.
    His main difficulty - is in quick hand kicks and staff stabs. This is a "Dodge Doom" issue.
    Ah, sorry. Didn't see those. Thanks! Also, perchance, you know a way to stop the slow-mo dodging error I get with Duals? I dodge, but when I get an attack window, it shows me recovering from the attack, and the first hit I try, it is is blocked.
    Tiger
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    Late dodge. Watch for the very beginning of the moves and learn "one-tap dodge" technique.
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    Quote Originally Posted by =Silver= View Post
    Update

    1. Added the God King magic shots
    2. Added Chapter 1.4 "Gems Stack Issue" by Niiloc
    3. Added a chapter under the GK. In this chapter I will publish the latest research on the GK behavior. So, if there are any contributors - welcome (SAB, grant, niiloc, rugged, rios, other respectful members)

    @Niiloc
    See what you'd like to change/add and send me the new text right in one of the posts
    In section 1.4 I would like to add the following sentence which is in bold below... feel free to change the wording or order however you want if you don't feel that it is concise enough:


    "After some extensive testing i have confirmed that titan break +2 hex gems DO stack...

    My findings indicate that with 2 Titan break+2 hex gems equipped, one will get a minimum break window of 10 hits against small attack chains, and up to 13 versus long attack chains (i.e. a traditional GK step-back). Of course, these above numbers will only occur if you do not take a hit during an enemy's attack chain, and do not parry the final attack of an enemy's attack chain.

    I arrived at this conclusion by performing the following test on 5 different titans, with identical results:

    1) fought the titan three times, only playing through the first break window before re-starting the battle
    2) I only dodged titans' attacks, i did not parry at all
    3) I did not use combo attacks, only single swipes in the same direction (mono-swiping)...

    -on first fight, i had no TB+2 hex gems equipped
    -on first break window, i was getting 6-7 hits (which is the norm)...
    -re-started fight and equipped one TB+2 hex gem
    -on first break window, i was getting 8-9 hits (again, normal with a TB+2 hex equipped)

    -re-started fight for third time and equipped a second TB+2 hex gem (2nd one in paga circle ring)
    -on first break window, i was getting 10-13 hits (mostly 11 hits)...I do have a video recording where i was able to register 12/13 hits."
    Last edited by NiiLoC; 05-30-2012 at 05:42 PM.

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    Added as a conclusion
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    Hi Silver, love ur work and contribution in this forum. I'm fairly comfortable with dual style compare to other 2, it feel so good when saying to all these titans :"you cant touch me" ^_^ So I'm trying to c if I can dodge ALL the titans' moves. I know it's doable, but the recent new monster like lupun, I don't think it's step back can be dodged at all, or parry; and the guy holding reaper, his step back are the same, I tried to use dodge on his moves, but doesn't seem to work too :-/ do you have any opinion on the new titans moves? Thank you

  28. #28

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    Lupun is good... I've just begun learning him.
    As for Acolyte, I met him once, but didn't find him hard, maybe I didn't have enough time with him.
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    I think you can dodge all of their attacks, as long as you don't get Dodge Doom.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiiLoC View Post
    "After some extensive testing i have confirmed that titan break +2 hex gems DO stack...

    My findings indicate that with 2 Titan break+2 hex gems equipped, one will get a minimum break window of 10 hits against small attack chains, and up to 13 versus long attack chains (i.e. a traditional GK step-back). Of course, these above numbers will only occur if you do not take a hit during an enemy's attack chain, and do not parry the final attack of an enemy's attack chain.

    I arrived at this conclusion by performing the following test on 5 different titans, with identical results:

    1) fought the titan three times, only playing through the first break window before re-starting the battle
    2) I only dodged titans' attacks, i did not parry at all
    3) I did not use combo attacks, only single swipes in the same direction (mono-swiping)...

    -on first fight, i had no TB+2 hex gems equipped
    -on first break window, i was getting 6-7 hits (which is the norm)...
    -re-started fight and equipped one TB+2 hex gem
    -on first break window, i was getting 8-9 hits (again, normal with a TB+2 hex equipped)

    -re-started fight for third time and equipped a second TB+2 hex gem (2nd one in paga circle ring)
    -on first break window, i was getting 10-13 hits (mostly 11 hits)...I do have a video recording where i was able to register 12/13 hits."

    Very nice scientifically tested!
    Continuing from the thread: http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/...A-CIRCLE/page2
    Had to do a similar test to convince myself, and hats off to NiiLoc, you are absolutely right ablout titan break +2 do stack.

    I fought Horned Witch using gelder, only dodged until break, only 4 dodges until break counts, (3 dodges until break gave different results)
    Here were my results for single swipes in the same direction:

    1. Without TB gem: 7 hits (9 if blue circle appears)
    2. With 1 TB gem: 9 hits (11 if blue circle appears)
    3. With 2 TB gem: 11 hits (13 if blue circle appears)
    4. The results for combo hits (using left, right) were the same as above.

    Then I equipped light weapon with Infinity Blade.
    Results for single swipes in the same direction:

    1. Without TB gem: 6 hits (8 if blue circle appears)
    2. With 1 TB gem: 8 hits (10 if blue circle appears)
    3. With 2 TB gem: 10 hits (12 if blue circle appears)
    4. Did not carry out test for combo.

    If you dont equip TB gem sometimes titan will block your hits. This doesnt happen when you are equipped with TB gem.

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    Just a question: Do Titan Stun 3s gems stack?

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    unfortunately no.
    This is the only hex gem that dont stack! So why not chair?

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    Did you use gems silver?
    Sandray pie is amazing: Ausar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericmurphy View Post
    Looking forward to it. The guy is still kicking my butt.

    (Although, I have to admit a lot of it is simply bad IB habits. I for some reason cannot get used to center dodge.)
    Same issue i forget about the crouch and then get killed

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    =Silver=, in Immediate Slash, you swipe to parry or dodge? I just can't understand it at all. Thanks for the response
    "He thought I'd betray my people, leave them to die. But he was wrong, so wrong. I will do my duty. For I am a king."
    -Raidriar

    |Total 5:1|MX-Eliminator|Leg Fighter Pro|Ultimate God King Slayer|
    Percentage for every combo/hit - Every Class List
    Guide of every Hit Bound Break Window and Perfect Block/Parry caps

  36. #36
    MSgt. Shooter Person
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Ok, so I found, in my opinion, the most balanced item set for Dual. In terms of the weapon, I would use Kurtz with an Attack Stat Gem, a Parry All Attacks Gem, and a On Parry Damage Gem. I would then use Aran, Aegis Armor, The Vile Shield, and the Holy Band. In the remaining gem slots I suggest using 4 Attack Gems, 2 Health Gems, and 1 Magic Gem(which could be replaced with another Health Gem), a All Defense Gem, and any Hex Gem of your choice.
    Tiger
    Lvl 58 | Health 12650 | Attack 757 + 150 | Magic 199 | Shield 85 | Forum CM Member
    "Made of win, for the win"

  37. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Farfield View Post
    =Silver=, in Immediate Slash, you swipe to parry or dodge? I just can't understand it at all. Thanks for the response
    I swipe to make the fastest swipe possible, with no interval after the whatever last move. This is the essence of this technique. What will your swipe be: a parry or hit - is the different question and depends on the situation
    "Skillbuilding as a lifestyle"
    The God King Club ID#1|Ultimate GK Slayer |True Jedi |
    NG Code follower
    =Dual Guide=

  38. #38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Farfield View Post
    =Silver=, in Immediate Slash, you swipe to parry or dodge? I just can't understand it at all. Thanks for the response
    double post
    "Skillbuilding as a lifestyle"
    The God King Club ID#1|Ultimate GK Slayer |True Jedi |
    NG Code follower
    =Dual Guide=

  39. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by =Silver= View Post
    I swipe to make the fastest swipe possible, with no interval after the whatever last move. This is the essence of this technique. What will your swipe be: a parry or hit - is the different question and depends on the situation
    I understood what the Immediate Slash means when i see myself cracking the Fel Siren, when she used her Somersault stepback, i went down to dodge and immediately parry to the right.

    I was a light fighter, now i am aimed at the dual way. Thank you, Silver.

  40. #40
    MSgt. Shooter Person
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Magic usually is longer than dodge, but you can begin drawing a cast while in dodge animation (when you can't use next dodge yet). And it may save you. Especially when you dodged wrong or too early (false enemy attack moves or long timing hits).
    I have tried all the magic types, and it seems at holy, fire, and heal react the fastest. So, you are low on health and the enemy is about to deliever the fisishing blow, one can ususally squeeze one of those off.
    Tiger
    Lvl 58 | Health 12650 | Attack 757 + 150 | Magic 199 | Shield 85 | Forum CM Member
    "Made of win, for the win"

 

 
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