Joveus do u think the method of processing requires humans to contract rust lung? From what I can remember we haven't seen what the final outcome of rustlung is during the locust/human war! Yes sires were the results of rustlung during the gold rush but as we know imulsion was constantly mutating! And formers were the result of rustlung after the flooding of the hollow and just before the lambent life cycle reached its critical state! But what about the time inbetween? We seen the humans being captured in gears 2 do u think exposing them to imulsion vapour is the first step to this "processing" method the locust used?
I hope u understand what I'm trying to say dude thanks
Hello! I came across your theory of the Locust's origin and I must say, it's incredibly well thought out. However I disagree with some of your points. This may be a bit crude but here we go:
It's very well possible that "processing" refers to putting the humans into work camps as seen in Gears of War 2. Another possibility is that "processessing" refers to lobotomizing the captives like they did to Maria. The Gears 2 collectible even states that the "children" are sadistic and enjoy torturing their victims, most likely out of their hatrid for humankind. Same thing here. The Locust force humans into labor and lobotomize them as a form of torture. As for the Queen "making" drones, it's possible that she oversees their training and "makes" them into the warriors they eventually become. No real evidence to support this, just my 2 cents."As stated in Beneath the Surface, thousands of humans have been taken by the Locust since E-Day. Using the Locust Runes the Trinity of Worms can be seen to state “The Queen makes Drones, the Drones protect Nexus, Nexus covers the Queen”.
Having seen that the Locust do not breed, the only other interpretation would be that the Queen literally makes Drones. Taking what we have learned about the Locust origins from New Hope and the role imulsion plays in their development, it can be concluded that Drones are created through imulsion exposure.
But there must be more to it than that, otherwise exposed humans would just become Formers. “Processing”, therefore, must include another element. Since the Locust origins were at New Hope, and at least some of the scientists travelled to Mount Kadar with the “subjects”, the method of “processing” must have been passed down. And who makes the Drones? The Queen."
I was arguing this with a friend last night after I showed him your theory as well. The reason why no infantile or juvenile Locust are seen is probably because Nexus was no such place to raise one, especially with a civil war going on. Now there isnt much evidence to back this up since we know next to nothing about their culture and society. IF there where Locust children in Nexus, the Lambent would have more than likely killed them off by now. They did so with human children, why not Locust children? Theres also the fact that very little of the Inner hollow (By that I mean places where the Locust actually live) was seen so its very well possible that these juvenile Locust are kept elsewhere.“Baird here.
I guess this could be an invasion map, but it looks more like a kid's drawing
to me. Li'l Locust, do they have those?
I was just asking Marcus about this earlier... Why aren't there any Locust
brats around here? Figured we'd see some grub's grub somewhere around this
Well, guess if the Berserkers are the females, maybe the males just wised up
and quit laying the pipe to 'em. Man, that would be perfect... Locust go
extinct due to the fugly, homicidal chicks they have to mate with.
Hey, one can hope.”
Not nessisaraly true. If they where the mutated decendants, its possible that the sterility may not have shown up in the later generations which in this case are the Locust. Examples of this can be seen in real life. Radiation causes sterility in the parents, yet sometimes offspring are still born (albeit with mutations or in extremely rare cases perfectly normal). This has been stated several times (Dunno if it was directly adressed) is that how did the Sires have children if Imulsion causes sterility? Another thing that was brought up is that it doesnt cause sterility in humans, just in mice. Its a possibility, but it would also mean that the Sires and subsequently their children would also be able to reproduce normally."Imulsion exposure causes sterility. This is something that applies to all species, and is noted by Adam to have an effect on human populations. Since the Locust are themselves the children of Lambent humans and are already Lambent it would seem that there are no Locust children, another factor that disproves the idea of the Locust being an ancient race. In Aspho Fields Colonel Hoffman has heard that the Locust breed by rape, but when Baird enters the Nexus in Gears of War 2 there is no evidence of infant Locust."
This next half regards the Kantus:
By this I assume you mean the Kantus that we've seen in the games and novels. The Kantus are part of a religeous caste and are seen as bishops and such where as Skorge would be the equivalent of a Pope. The reason no Kantus where seen prior to that is because of their religeous status. If they have such a signifigant role within the Locust society, then typically you dont send them to fight."Either way, there really aren't enough Kantus around to account for the size of Nexus."
Let me tell you about something called Genetic Avatism. Its a disorder in which previous features from an evolutionary ancestor appear in modern species. Assuming Gears plays by the rules and Dinosaurs existed on Sera, then that means mammals would be the direct decendants of reptiles. The Imulsion mutates its hosts, we've seen this in the games. Rustlung, an Imulsion related disease also causes a very early form of lambency which mutated humans into Sires, and consiquently mutated their children at a genetic level. Genetic Avatism is a DNA mutation. Therefor from this, its possible that the scaly, reptillian apperance of the Locust is caused by Genetic Avatism, and not because one is more Lambent than the other. A modern day example would the the Armadillo. It's a mammal yet it has reptillian features. Consider that."Let’s begin with the Former. As can be seen, Lambency has caused the formation of large, calloused areas of toughened skin over the head, arms and torso. Also note the skeletal disfigurement of the arms, especially below the elbows. Finally, the presence of the sharpened claws at the end of each digit is visible.
The Sires come next. Created as an attempt to cure imulsion-infection we can expect to see evidence of mutation into a Former. Note the thin, skeletal nature of the left arm when compared to the bulkier, more Locust-like appearance of the right. The areas of altered skin seen on the Former are also witnessed here, observe the multiple spike-like protrusions that extend up the left arm. We can also see that the feet have changed shape and form and the heel has lifted, and the digits on the left hand are long and thin
Next we have the Kantus. Of note here are the large, bone-like protrusions present on the elbows and shoulders as well as the unique nature of the feet when compared to the other Locust. These larger, three-toed feet are similar to those seen on the Sires as are the similar long, skeletal fingers.
Next is the standard Locust drone. Their rough, patchy skin above the chest and shoulders can also be witnessed on the Sires. The major features are their increased muscle mass, the up-turned, pug-like nose, and the heavy, protruding bone structure present on their brow."
EDIT: now this brings up another question. Do we consider the Locust as an entirely new species? Or are they still technically human?
Last edited by GeneralGreasy; 06-09-2012 at 07:26 PM.
This all holds up rather well. Lots to think about.
LP,LP,-->,LK,HP = 天
Again nice post very well thought out. Would like to point at a thing or two.
Polyps - Many people see the polyps and automatically think lambent. If you actually remember Gears 2 though they showed up when inside the riftworm in a non lambent form. They are identical to these. This may also explain why lambent laviathons where carrying them as they are more a parasitic creature that lives within others that are large enough to hold them.
Also some lambent forms didnt mutate into a nearly new form. Remember on Vectes the lambent cow?, Lambent Dogs?, How about again in GOW2 when in Nexus you reached the lift escaping the lambent drones. They appeared to only shine white but nothing like what we see in GOW3. Also i still dont understand the ghost spirit thing that creeped down the cliff as no other lambent form did that anywhere in the series.
Now on the Rock Shrew. I dont think its a worm. Epic i believe is smart enough to know Rock Shrews are real in our world and there habitat and behavior was mearly modified to be tunnel dwellers not a completely different animal with same name. Think of it more as a deep tunnel Mole or rat when you think rock shrew. Just this one has a vestigial leg as a recent mutation.
New Edit, i also wanted to point out a another thing or two.
This goes into the credence to fertility and offspring. We seen thoughout Gears Corpsers. It wasnt until Gears 3 did they actually show a hive or nest for them and how they where coming about. So another thing to think about was that we may have just not been allowed to see the birthing area of Locust of any form. Less plausible then your articulated post but another food for thought.
Now on to the genetic creation of locust or what not from humans. My big question on this is simple. If you ahve a species that has the know how and ability to genetically create one being into another why with that knowledge are they going to a physicist for answers to the lambent issue. It would be more likely that there own knowledge far outpaced even the scientist of Sera in that regards. it just doesnt add up to be that smart but at the same time that dumb. Even Adam needed biologist to aid him.
Last edited by olsaltee; 06-19-2012 at 08:37 AM.
If you can stand your alive, if your alive its a good day.
Also I would like to say, it wouldnt be baby locust in nexus nor berserkers(few in numbers?) Because they was moved to another location... why would they be there when the queen was trying to do the same thing delta was. Flood the hollows. They just did it a little ahead of schedule.
Thanks man, really really appreciate it I think you shot the bullet in the right place... imo the pieces formed the puzzle I was looking for.
Nomen est Omen
Are you saying that, after the Lightmass Offensive, the Locust Horde relocated its Berserkers and young Locust to another location outside of Nexus to protect them from the Horde's intended plans to flood the Hollow, and potentially boost the Locust population after the bombing's heavy casualties?
Seems reasonable, if we're assuming that the Berserkers are responsible for breeding Locust. The general consensus ITT is that they are not and Joveus' conclusions are well-backed up, so I'm not sure how I agree with that. The most likely explanation is that Epic simply didn't want Berserkers in Gears of War 2, so they weren't featured in the story after Aspho Fields.
Last edited by Coleyman; 06-19-2012 at 03:51 PM.
After 3 games, 5 books and a ton of comics I'm really thinking Locust children are absent deliberately. I mean, there's a collectible in Gears of War 2 where Baird says "We haven't seen any Locust children, does that mean they aren't having kids?" instead of "We haven't seen any Locust children, maybe they moved them all?".
I really do understand where people are coming from when they say maybe the Locust children are off-screen but still present throughout the series, but then why does Baird draw attention to it in the first place? I dunno, we've had baby corpsers, kryll nesting sites and biogenetic experimentation but still no sign or mention of Locust kids. I can't help but feel that if the Locust bred, we'd have been thrown a bone, even a tiny one.
The only thing i can think of to legitamize there not being any young locust in screen is the fact that Epic themselves would recieve alot i mean alot of bad talk if they did put them in. Think about it everything in the game be it chickens or another life form we can interact with them and shoot at them. Us having the ability to see and shoot younglings would be a very bad image for Epic that would receive alot of complaints from many groups and people. The only exception to this is in stranded camps which they purposefully remove your ability to raise a weapon. But they cannot do this type of scene involving a locust location as it would automatically involve fighting.
Now i said it under the Kantis origins thread but i believe that Kantus and Berzerkers are the only original Locust. The drone may very well be from a genetic creation.
If you can stand your alive, if your alive its a good day.
Why would you keep children in a hostile place like Nexus with the Lambent running amok? If there where any, like I said, the Lambent have probably killed them off already. Simply because they havent been seen in Nexus doesnt mean there arnt any at all.
I am also one of those who beleive that the Kantus where the original Locust, and the Drones where a later addition.
COG: Classic Marcus
Locust: Savage Grenadier/Savage Grenadier Elite
I want to be really clear - I really, really understand where you're coming from, I'm not disagreeing for disagreements sake. From a purely strategic in-universe point of view your idea makes perfect sense, but there are a few little bits that hint that the Locust don't breed, and the lack of Locust children and lack of anything addressing the lack of Locust children seems too big an aspect to be an oversight on Epic's part.
I believe there is a fine line between seeing a child die and the ability to kill the child. Nearly everything involved with the locust home typically involved fighting. I dont think they could have had them in the game unless it was a cutscene of the sort.
My line of thought is more that if they where changing humans to locust by any means should we have not seen more bezerkers? I mean can you honestly expect me to believe that only a small portion of woman used in the experiment mutated to berzerkers and the rest magically changed to drones. I dont buy it. There is a disconnect in there somewhere and there has to be even a small note we have missed that may clarify the seperation bewtween locust drone, kantus, berzerker.
If you can stand your alive, if your alive its a good day.
This is a very vague statement. Nobody is disputing that the Drones or Kantus are Locust. Are you suggesting that the Kantus are indigenous Hollow creatures, and the Locust were the result of Sire experimentation? Or are you suggesting that the Locust are a natural species which gradually began to change habitat to the Hollow and eventually allied with the Kantus? What you've said is obviously correct to some extent, but your statement does not explain anything about your thoughts about the Drones' origins. Care to elaborate?I am also one of those who beleive that the Kantus where the original Locust, and the Drones where a later addition.
My point is, you don't see a child die. A child is killed yes, but it's hidden behind an APC that is quickly forgotten. Children are a touchy subject for stuff like this, which is why the child is not seen when it's killed, as opposed to being mutilated by some random Grenadier on-screen.
Last edited by Coleyman; 06-26-2012 at 01:54 PM.
^ Oh no, I accept that the Drones are the result of experementation as per The Slab. I just think that the Kantus where the original Locust (by original I mean indigenous to The Hollow) and the Drones where added later on when the subjects where moved to Mount Kadar. I beleive there are others who share this opinion.
For the record, you COULD kill children in Fallout 1 except that there would be heavy reprecussions. Bounty Hunters would periodically attack you and they'd either match your level or be a couple levels above you, They'd also be decked out with some of the games more powerful weapons and armor (Excluding the T-51b Power Armor, as omly the Brotherhood of Steel use them). Point is dont kill Children, you'll regret it.
COG: Classic Marcus
Locust: Savage Grenadier/Savage Grenadier Elite
Rift worm was obviously a very old creature that created the hollow. It has 3 hearts. Locust when running on multiplayer etc, have more heartbeats than a human. Maybe a hint that they are related and thus an old cilvilisation descendent from those kind of worms etc.
this? The text is pretty small but it says;
"Riftworms are enormous, worm-like beasts who are approximately half a mile wide and 8-10 miles long. Thick skinned and semi-intelligent, they burrow through the underground of Sera creating caverns and tunnels in their wake. Riftworms burrow, consume all in their way, and leave behind rich, manure enriched waste that replenishes the rocky soil. As all consuming destroyers and then creators, they are responsible for the majority of the Hollow and thus are worshipped as godlike status by the Locust. The Locust have incorporated the image of the Riftworms into their architecture, much like the Mayans worshipped the snake and incorporated it into their architecture the Locust worship the worm as a life giver.
It is not known how the Locust direct or guide the Riftworms toward their targets. Some believe that pheromones are used: others maintain that explosives are detonated to 'encourage' the worm in another direction."
My reading of this implies that the Locust were already around and found the Riftworm after they were already established as a society, incorporating the Riftworm into their architecture and culture at a later date. And while this says it is unknown how the Locust control the Riftworm, we saw in Gears 2 that Skorge's chants are the method used. My Kantus thread needs a bit of a rewrite, but it explores this a little bit. I believe imulsion, as always, is the answer here.
There are two types of lambency - fast and slow; fast is what we see in Gears 3 with the Drudges, Gunkers and all that; slow is everything else, Wretches, Brumaks, etc. So lambent evolution tends to go -
Original specimen (eg monkey) + slow lambency (imulsion over the last hundred years) = Wretch + fast lambency (imulsion in the last few years) = Lambent Wretch.
The Riftworm, like the other Hollow creatures, is something formed by slow lambency. Rockworm + imulsion exposure while it is in its near dormant state over a long period of time = Riftworm. The idea then, is that the Riftworm, like everything else in the Hollow, is already Lambent. By 'Lambent' I don't mean glowing and exploding, but rather that the creature possesses cell-based imulsion contamination on a genetic level. I argue that the Kantus have the ability to stimulate these imulsion contaminated cells within other creatures. It helps to understand their healing abilities as well as how they communicate with the Riftworm.
Anyway, the Locust incorparated the Riftworm into their culture, their culture did not build up around the Riftworm. The Kantus and the Locust religion did not exist first, it developed only after the Locust found the Riftworm under Timgad.
I wonder what that black plate on his head is all about? Could it be a birth mark? Or do you think it's an implant so she can communicate with him like in RAAM's Shadow? It looks surgically implanted to me though. Maybe this how he can control Kryll and speak to the Queen. I always thought it was some kind of device in his head that control a certain sound/wave frequency to direct the Kryll. After playing RAAM's Shadow, it seemed to me like it could be possibly both.That, to me, explains how she talks to RAAM, while at the same time she requires a physical speaker system in Nexus to spread her rants when he's not around.
1. A certain frequency (almost a hum) to have the Kryll on standby as a shield and other frequency strengths to project where to attack.
2. A micro speaker system implant for communication.
The Kryll remind me of Phirrana's and bats.
Just a thought
has a cloth stitched into the side of his face. My guess was that he was wounded in the back of his head early in his life as a Drone, and his wound was stitched over using some black cloth which has, over time, grown into his head as the wound healed around it.
Off-topic observation: The appearance and habits of the Savage Locust fascinates me. The Savage Drone have wooden stakes impaled into the sides of their arms, whilst the Savage Grenadier Elite has a cloth stitched into his face and huge metal bolts implanted onto his head. What is this? Is it some sort of cultural phenomenon? Because they are isolated, they have begun practicing ritualised self-harm in such forms?
Last edited by Coleyman; 07-14-2012 at 10:59 AM.
But what's more interesting is the fact that Bloodmounts can communicate with the Queen. RAAM; totally understandable. Drones; entirely possible and probably fact. But Bloodmounts? I'd always assumed that they came under the beasts of war - the native creatures tamed by the Drones to use as support. It surprises me that Bloodmounts actually possess enough intelligence to communicate, and fluently! I'd just assumed they were of much lower intelligence than that.
This is the best thing i've read in so long.
And as far as i'm concerned, and whenever anyone asks, this is the origin of the Locust. Well done mate!
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FUNK VOLUME 2012
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Thanks for the info. Its awesome knowing this
This is an absolutely outstanding thread and I can't believe that I only just got round to reading it.
But I have to admit...
a tiny part of me...
kind of thinks...
Epic don't even have all the answers to this stuff
wow (insert proud slow clap here) you have done it you have answered everything you are the gears master!
Your thread is very convincing (though slightly disheartening).
I just don't understand why and how the Locust could build an entire culture underground in only the course of 100 years. If they began as experimental bodies, I reckon their numbers would range in the low thousands. How were they able to cut such great sculptures out of the rocks in only 100 years? The Highway, Nexus, and all of the winding tunnels in the Hollow just seem like too much to build in 100 years. How could they have been spending so much time and resources on mutating more humans WHILE building those great structures in such little time.
If they were originally humans, why would they develop their own written languages and religions? How could they have tamed the beasts so quickly? If the Kantus actively used Imulsion to control the large beasts, how come we never saw any Lambent Kanti? If the Locust truly had Imulsion ingrained in their cells and they used it to their advantage, why did they fight back against the Lambent in a Civil War?
Why would Myrrah wage an all-out war on the humans? If they became hostile to humans, the Locust were doomed as they would not be able to replenish their numbers. Even if the Locust took over the entire surface and fought back the Lambent, there would not be enough humans to mutate. Most humans are killed in battle or executed on sight by the Locust. The Locust did not take prisoners until later into the war. (Gears 2)
This theory still does not make much sense when discussing how long those locust building existed. Even during the early years of the locust race, the kids of the lambent humans, would still have to grow up and the find materials before they can even start creating those buildings, and even then, they are going to need a lot more locust to create these buildings, which of course will take even more time because they have to capture humans for that.
Also it doesn't really make any sense for the Locust to want to wipe out Mankind if they need humans for survival.
I prefer the belief that the Locust are a native species to Sera (that has been around for a long time), not mutated humans, by them just being mutated humans, it takes some of the uniqueness away from their race.
Last edited by DoomGuy91; 07-30-2012 at 10:43 PM.
Great post. Good info
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Ever seen Bruce Almighty? Would be very similar to that with 100s of Locust trying to talk to her at once.
Just look at the comic books, they are so shoddy it hurts my eyes, look at the last page, bits of Myrrah's leg overlay the table infront of her.
Gears 2's end: everything gone. Did they build anything in Gears 3? They had 18 months
But hey, at least the main menu is badass
You can still play Gears 1 y'know.
It's entirely possible that she can only communicate with one Locust like this. I'd imagine it'd take a lot of mental power to communicate with the entire Horde, yet Myrrah shows no problems communicating with individual Locust (RAAM, the recon Bloodmount).
So Myrrah's communication with the Locust does occur, not just in the comic. The thing is, if the Locust hive-mind communicates by piggy-backing onto the hive-mind properties of Imulsion itself, how does Myrrah use it? She isn't Lambent in any capacity, neither Sire, Locust or Former. Of course, that assumes that the Imulsion is the means of communication. It might be something else entirely, unrelated to Imulsion.Originally Posted by Nashtyboy
Recently Epic announced a very simple credo = Fun -> Canon. Even as the guy who followed all the little pieces in the story so intently as to start this thread, I respect this mentality. Mk II Lancers and Hammerbursts in use in Gears of War: Judgment? Sure, I'll get behind that so long as the game itself is good. I don't know how Myrrah communicates mentally with the Locust, but the Epic devs said its hive-mind communication. I don't know how the Locust built Nexus to be as large as it is in the time they had, but the Epic devs said that's what happened. They created the world, they know it much better than I do, and I'll accept what they give me as an answer even if it doesn't quite make sense.
That was an EPIC analysis. I applaud your research and conclusions. This should be shared.
6 Year Gears player
I actually play ranked solo sometimes
I have the first three seriously achievements... worth it.
I dislike the concept of quick match. People leave after 1 game anyway.
Do you want to improve your game? Maybe watch a commentary of some Gears Ranked?
Sires are early forms of Locust, correct?