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  1. #1
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    Default Will Allegorithmic Substance Air be part of the UDK?

    Hi to all,

    Looking at these Substance Air demos with the Unreal Engine 3:

    http://www.allegorithmic.com/?PAGE=GALLERY.demos

    I was wondering if this technology will be released with the UDK or can be acquired by license?

    Thanks,
    Charles

  2. #2
    Redeemer
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    Well uh, Epic doesn't own that tech. Thus they can't just put it in UDK for free. They'd have to license it themselves and I imagine the license fee would be humongous since they'd distribute it for free in UDK.

    And I don't think you can implement any own middleware into UDK, you'd need source code access which you only get by buying UE 3 license.

  3. #3
    Redeemer
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    You can attach some things through DLLBind. That doesn't have access to the rendering pipeline though (which is what this looks like? I'm not familiar with it and don't want to read through anything right now, but it's procedural texturing or something similar isn't it?), so you can't really implement it yourself. Chances are Epic won't be integrating this as it's likely extremely expensive. It does look cool though.
    Fear and despair come the cry of havoc. For loose are the Dawgs for War.

  4. #4
    Palace Guard

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    As far as I can see, this is procedural texture generation.

    The only way this technology will be available for free in UDK is if Allegorithmic themselves are willing to give this technology away for free or with restrictions. This isn't up to Epic.

  5. #5
    Redeemer
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    You could technically do it yourself to an extent. I mean, I have doubts as to whether it actually makes textures procedurally, it's probably based on source images that you input that are manipulated. In which case you could do a lot of it without the third party tool, although it would take significantly more work. Although this looks nice... I'm gonna put that right there on the bookmarks tab and remember it eventually.
    Fear and despair come the cry of havoc. For loose are the Dawgs for War.

  6. #6
    Palace Guard

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    Procedural texturing is easy. Lots of perlin noise, blending, etc. Lots of 64k demos do it, and some of them with a lot of work look amazing.

    You could do it in Unrealscript, but it's work flow is backwards.

  7. #7
    Iron Guard
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnspoiledWalnut View Post
    You could technically do it yourself to an extent. I mean, I have doubts as to whether it actually makes textures procedurally, it's probably based on source images that you input that are manipulated. In which case you could do a lot of it without the third party tool, although it would take significantly more work. Although this looks nice... I'm gonna put that right there on the bookmarks tab and remember it eventually.
    It takes (procedural) patterns you can modify and colorize in loads of way. I've tried Mapzone a while ago, and while it can give quite interesting results, I doubt any artist will want to go anywhere near the UI of this software

    The situations where procedural texturing is interesting are very limited in my opinion.
    Knowledge should be shared with everyone. Technique however, is your own thing.

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  8. #8
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    I've just had word from Allegorithmic: they are discussing the integration with the UDK, but it will not occur before several months.

    For myself, I'm not looking for a 'free' Substance integration. I'm glad to pay for the software, but without the necessary integration into the heart of the engine it's not possible to use it.

    So even when the licensing stays at the same price, it would be great if Epic would turn on the 'Substance switch'. I think it's a great technology and could considerably shrink downloads.

  9. #9
    Redeemer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mougli View Post
    It takes (procedural) patterns you can modify and colorize in loads of way. I've tried Mapzone a while ago, and while it can give quite interesting results, I doubt any artist will want to go anywhere near the UI of this software

    The situations where procedural texturing is interesting are very limited in my opinion.
    Well I'm just thinking about it and can see some practical applications for it, such as changing seasonal environments, but really I kind of doubt that it's designed for that and would probably require some heavy manipulation or modification (as it would be the entire game, not limited sections). For the smaller parts that I would use it on, honestly I could probably do it myself without much of an issue, however I understand that it's a lot more work than most people are going to want to do that come through here.
    Fear and despair come the cry of havoc. For loose are the Dawgs for War.

  10. #10
    Palace Guard

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    For myself, I'm not looking for a 'free' Substance integration. I'm glad to pay for the software, but without the necessary integration into the heart of the engine it's not possible to use it.
    The integration already exists given that those screenshots are in UE3.

  11. #11
    Iron Guard
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solid Snake View Post
    The integration already exists given that those screenshots are in UE3.
    For Licensees...
    Knowledge should be shared with everyone. Technique however, is your own thing.

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  12. #12
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    Indeed, it's part of the UE3, but not the UDK.

    Not every 3rd party integration has to be 'free'. With a 25% share in profit the UDK itself is far from free.

    So just put in all those expensive 3rd party plugins, and unlock them for customers that can afford them.

    This way these companies can reach an additional audience I guess...

  13. #13
    Iron Guard
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    As it has been said somewhere else in this forum, the more stuff Epic unlocks in UDK, the less reasons companies have to buy a full licence. What you suggest won't happen because it's not financially sensible for Epic to do so.
    Knowledge should be shared with everyone. Technique however, is your own thing.

    My UnrealScript Lessons
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    I'm working full-time, so I'm not available for freelance work, sorry.

  14. #14
    Palace Guard

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    Indeed, it's part of the UE3, but not the UDK.
    Theres no difference. UDK is simply the binary release of UE3.

    At the end of the day, if the third party doesn't want their software in UDK, what can Epic do? Complain to the third party, not Epic.

  15. #15
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    @snake: Who's complaining? This is a discussion. Please read the thread before you post these kinds of 'comments', and you can see that I contacted Allegorithmic.

    @Mougli: I would think that the companies you mention will gladly pay for the full license since that is a better deal than 25% of their profit. And with these kind of large projects I guess the companies really need access to the engine for custom coding. So I don't think Epic will lose that type of clients.

  16. #16
    Palace Guard

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    @snake: Who's complaining? This is a discussion. Please read the thread before you post these kinds of 'comments', and you can see that I contacted Allegorithmic.
    If that's the case, what is there to discuss? You've played the ball into Allegorithmic's court; now they just have to hit back.

  17. #17
    MSgt. Shooter Person
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    Since Unity is free and it's being distributed with Subtance, it should be a matter of time until UDK has it!


 

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